Dras, where is your 9 B-wing fleet?

Or is it 8 and Jan?

Is 8 too few B's?

If I could get a second copy of FC-FCT, then it'd be:

But this is Lyraeus' thread, and I already gave my advice to him

Dras, where is your 9 B-wing fleet?

Or is it 8 and Jan?

Is 8 too few B's?

If I could get a second copy of FC-FCT, then it'd be:

[ REBEL FLEET (395 points)

1 • MC80 Command Cruiser - Garm Bel Iblis - Flight Commander - Fighter Coordination Team - Electronic Countermeasures (144)

2 • MC80 Command Cruiser - Flight Commander - Fighter Coordination Team - Electronic Countermeasures (119)

3 • B-wing Squadron (14)

4 • B-wing Squadron (14)

5 • B-wing Squadron (14)

6 • B-wing Squadron (14)

7 • B-wing Squadron (14)

8 • B-wing Squadron (14)

9 • B-wing Squadron (14)

10 • B-wing Squadron (14)

11 • Keyan Farlander B-wing Squadron (20)

But this is Lyraeus' thread, and I already gave my advice to him

Hahahaha you are welcome

Fun list. I'm not sure we can get all proprietary on the idea. About six different people posted at various times as soon as wave 4 was spoiled with similar kinds of ideas. Its pretty natural that lots of people will think of the concept. I'm not hugely sold on just throwing large numbers of Bs since I think all of the squadrons have a place and bring some synergy to the match-up. But Wow! If you're not ready for 8 B-wings, they're really going to tear up.

More useful.

Try it without escorts and instead redundant intel units. Do you find that they tend to die AFTER enemy non heavy units are dead anyway.

How efficient is it having flotillas when they are not activating squads. A 29pt bomber command unit isnt good value. Its an odd conudrum.

Some real list quesitons:

1) What is the "dream" objective your opponent picks? I'm guessing precision strike becasue of all the b-wings, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

2) How do you deploy if your opponent picks "fleet ambush" with that Neb B?

3) Which ship is picking up intel during "intel sweep"?

4) Do you even go after objective points in yellow and blue objectives or do you just go for the table?

More useful.

Try it without escorts and instead redundant intel units. Do you find that they tend to die AFTER enemy non heavy units are dead anyway.

How efficient is it having flotillas when they are not activating squads. A 29pt bomber command unit isnt good value. Its an odd conudrum.

The flotilla's are just perfect Flak units and spare squadron support. That is their use along with BCC and their officers.

I do not like not having escorts. . . They are just too useful. . .

Some real list quesitons:

1) What is the "dream" objective your opponent picks? I'm guessing precision strike because of all the b-wings, but I'd love to hear your thoughts.

2) How do you deploy if your opponent picks "fleet ambush" with that Neb B?

3) Which ship is picking up intel during "intel sweep"?

4) Do you even go after objective points in yellow and blue objectives or do you just go for the table?

There is no dream objective. They are all good and potential hindrances.

Each game is flexible. It is hard to boil down the list's strategy to just a few things. It all depends on deployment. Squadrons are the focus and since there are only 2 combat ships, I have to adjust the strategy constantly.

Gods this was fun to play. My opponent did not bring squadrons but being middle of the table on T1 or so was insane. Played Intel Sweep as second player. In a single turn with Yavaris rolling 1 red from the side and 3 red from the front followed by double tapping with 3 B-Wings dropped a full VSD to no shields on its front and sides and and dealt 7 damage cards. . . It was silly

Gods this was fun to play. My opponent did not bring squadrons but being middle of the table on T1 or so was insane. Played Intel Sweep as second player. In a single turn with Yavaris rolling 1 red from the side and 3 red from the front followed by double tapping with 3 B-Wings dropped a full VSD to no shields on its front and sides and and dealt 7 damage cards. . . It was silly

Pics or it didn't happen.

Gods this was fun to play. My opponent did not bring squadrons but being middle of the table on T1 or so was insane. Played Intel Sweep as second player. In a single turn with Yavaris rolling 1 red from the side and 3 red from the front followed by double tapping with 3 B-Wings dropped a full VSD to no shields on its front and sides and and dealt 7 damage cards. . . It was silly

Pics or it didn't happen.

So, how would you go about countering a list like this?

No hope just concede

So, how would you go about countering a list like this?

MOAR B-WINGS

So, how would you go about countering a list like this?

Join Imperial Navy!

So, how would you go about countering a list like this?

Kill the MC80. It HAS TO GO DOWN!

If you cant do that, take down the Intel.

TRCs the ships

TRCs the ships

You can but that may or may not be successful. I need to go against a high TRC list to try it out. . .hmmmm

This would do pretty well:

395/400

ISR: Konstantine, FCT, FC, G-8, Target Scrambler, Interdictor

ISD1: IO, OE, Q7, Leading Shots, XI7, Relentless

Gozanti: Jamming Field, EHB

Howlrunner, Mauler, Soontir, Dengar, IG-88

but it wouldn't do as well as "Drop the Bomb" would against a double whale list.

I love this game in that there is always a counter.

This would do pretty well:

395/400

ISR: Konstantine, FCT, FC, G-8, Target Scrambler, Interdictor

ISD1: IO, OE, Q7, Leading Shots, XI7, Relentless

Gozanti: Jamming Field, EHB

Howlrunner, Mauler, Soontir, Dengar, IG-88

but it wouldn't do as well as "Drop the Bomb" would against a double whale list.

I love this game in that there is always a counter.

This would do pretty well:

395/400

ISR: Konstantine, FCT, FC, G-8, Target Scrambler, Interdictor

ISD1: IO, OE, Q7, Leading Shots, XI7, Relentless

Gozanti: Jamming Field, EHB

Howlrunner, Mauler, Soontir, Dengar, IG-88

but it wouldn't do as well as "Drop the Bomb" would against a double whale list.

I love this game in that there is always a counter.

I don't think that squadron set up will do that well. No escorts. You would lose Denver then be stuck to suffer the AA shots of everyone

They alphastriked, jan orrs died to mauler and IG88 and dengar positioned in relative safety.

Go figure.

I have noticed that you seem to overvalue escort when analysing in the vacuum of mutually timed engagement. In this case once Jan Orrs dies, it doesnt matter whether the interceptors win the fight or not, it matters when they lose. Once Jan is dead, your fleet has nothing left to fight with.

They alphastriked, jan orrs died to mauler and IG88 and dengar positioned in relative safety.

....

...mutually timed engagement. In this case once Jan Orrs dies, it doesnt matter whether the interceptors win the fight or not, it matters when they lose. Once Jan is dead, your fleet has nothing left to fight with.

This ^^^ ... plus go ahead & kill Dengar. If things go as I have imagined ((I assume we each get to call what happens as they are our respective stories)) your squads have already taken 2 Mauler damage at this point (FC,FCT Mauler/Dengar) and now each time you fire you take 1pt from Soontir; that's two scatters of free damage I give you before you even hurt me, then 2 braces (yeah, I burn them all first turn in hopes to live and give another Mauler damage next turn)... Dengar gives you a good 4-5 damage from Soontir before he goes down unless you use AA fire, then great, because that ISD loves when it's not double arc'd on it's way to close range. ((although front arc against my ship & 2AA side from Neb is possible, if you kept your bombers back near it, but then you haven't used the FCT's your list is based around)) Or choose to kill Soontir first & face his Counter 4 plus re-roll & 2 scatters. I love watching opponents make that choice.

Also, note the Jamming Field. It's slick in there to prevent the counter attack from being so successful against small hulls ((unless you counter attack right away, but most ppl just wait until squadron phase since they are now locked down anyway, and that is why I have it)). It conveniently gets moved out just before my next fighter activation, or left in place, depending on tactical analysis.

All of this said, I actually love the "Drop the Bomb" list and designed a similar one once I saw the FCT/BCC as I have been looking for a reason to actually play Rebels and X-wings. I am a squadron lover & until this release rebels have made me sad because B-wings are sooooo slow I couldn't play them effectively.

That alpha strike cant kill Jan that easily. Even IG will only do so much. Running the math in my head and positioning I dont think that will happen like you think. There are a few counters that make it work.

That alpha strike cant kill Jan that easily. Even IG will only do so much. Running the math in my head and positioning I dont think that will happen like you think. There are a few counters that make it work.

And yet its easy for your fleet to kill Dengar instantly.

Can you not see the massive double standard here?

That alpha strike cant kill Jan that easily. Even IG will only do so much. Running the math in my head and positioning I dont think that will happen like you think. There are a few counters that make it work.

And yet its easy for your fleet to kill Dengar instantly.

Can you not see the massive double standard here?

Not easily but I have done it with Yavaris and Toryn Far giving their assistance.

I am going off of experience and a list like that has to either chase down my squadrons for that Alpha strike which means danger from the ships OR it stays near their ships and I might get free rein.

A trick is to keep Jan at distance 2 behind the YT's and near the ships that way if they jump the center they have to attack the YT's. You can adjust the spacing as needed.

So, how would you go about countering a list like this?

Anything built to get in close and trade up. A DeMSU (high-bid, high-activation built around maximizing a Demolisher last/first activation). A double-MC30 fleet with >4 activations and >4 bid and including Admonition to weather the bombers; 8 CR90B's with SW7's and Rieekan; a Gallant Haven-centric balanced fighter/bomber fleet.

I've been working on something similar to Lyr's list myself, and those are the weaknesses I've identified so far. The lack of Engine Techs on Defiance is a real thing, and it mitigates the efficient mass B-wing speed increase by tying them to one of the slowest ships in the game. Your maneuver capability is significantly hampered by the keystone of your fleet being so slow, so you generally have to play it in a certain, very defensive (and predicable) way most of the time. As the opponent, be patient approaching it, but be ready to strike hard all at once at, as Lyr said, one of the keystones. Remember that once he's committed to a course, he's stuck on it, so use the low maneuverability against him.

When I fly this list, I actually issue very few squadron commands with Defiance. I push around B-wings with my FCT and move them in the squadron phase until the critical turn, when I have a squadron command to push them for the kill. Defiance is actually better used as a gunship with Leading Shots, XI7's, and Nav/CF commands to wring firepower out of those broadsides before following up with B-wing kill shots. I'll usually give her a couple of nav commands, a CF or two (depending on what I expect the opponent to do), and then a squadron command. It helps mitigate the trouble with posturing that I mentioned above, gives you the CF for those two blacks or blues at long range, and then a squadron command for the turn when you really need to throw the B-wings out to catch something.

That alpha strike cant kill Jan that easily. Even IG will only do so much. Running the math in my head and positioning I dont think that will happen like you think. There are a few counters that make it work.

And yet its easy for your fleet to kill Dengar instantly.

Can you not see the massive double standard here?

Not easily but I have done it with Yavaris and Toryn Far giving their assistance.

I am going off of experience and a list like that has to either chase down my squadrons for that Alpha strike which means danger from the ships OR it stays near their ships and I might get free rein.

A trick is to keep Jan at distance 2 behind the YT's and near the ships that way if they jump the center they have to attack the YT's. You can adjust the spacing as needed.

Just as I have easily killed Jan many times. It is interesting for sure, and I believe it comes down to player skill, fighter placement, and ability to out-plan/guess your particular opponent & their strategy.

I think I understand your strategy here as basically: Let me (or force me to, otherwise you are going to kill the ships) strike the B-Wings/YT's first, then move Jan up (from back & protected) and trap my squadrons with your escorts by killing Dengar.

But if you do this, then I just engage you and keep my Intel back out of your escort shooting range.. unless you drop your intel right into the fight so you can move and go after mine, but now your intel is in the fight, right where I want it for next round to kill it... and then the dice fly and it may or may not work out for either of us as we imagined because a bunch of Crits & Accuracy come up.

The ability for your list to move FCT twice after all of my ships have moved is an advantage, but then if you place anything wrong my list will get to strike since it has initiative. I think we are both the kind of players that measure twice and cut once so I wouldn't count on you to make that mistake.

You state "I am going off of experience and a list like that has to either chase down my squadrons for that Alpha strike which means danger from the ships OR it stays near their ships and I might get free rein." Which is one way to see it, but I look at the engagement overall as: You HAVE to move your bombers into the fight as it is your main strike force. When you do that, then I lock them down... because I am willing to sacrifice my fighters to ensure I have 2-3 rounds of shooting your MC and Yavaris that will not move.

My personal taste with B-wings is actually making a couple of them Scurrgs and having intel x2 instead of escorts, then cover myself with Jamming Field and/or Gallant Haven and take the weakened AS hits with their big hull and then push an intel out there to free them to go bomb, then let the intel die in the squadron scrum, and use the other intel for my next freedom strike. It's basically my "Go ahead and target my intel. Meanwhile, I am going to get 2-3 bombing runs in with this fat hull of mine that you cannot kill fast enough" concept.