So looking at the most recent vassal tournament final match got me thinking about the inevitability of bomber fleets meeting up in wave 4 tournaments. This got me thinking as to how I could tailor a list to both field a fierce bomber compliment but also shred an opponents bomber force.

This led me to relying on ships for AS fire, and switching to primarily Y wings from B wings to get extra hull for ruthless strategists. This is very much a work in progress but I want to see if in general what I am missing so I can make any obvious but not obvious to me changes before I get something on the table to try out in a friendly game before going back to the drawing board.

Or, if you have flown a similar fleet and it tanked, let me know so I can redirect my efforts!

Why Wings?

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 391/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- General Dodonna ( 20 points)
- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)
- Comms Net ( 2 points)
= 47 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)
- Yavaris ( 5 points)
- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)
- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)
= 72 total ship cost

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)
- Ruthless Strategists ( 4 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)
= 98 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 28 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Quantum Storm ( 1 points)
- Jamming Field ( 2 points)
= 21 total ship cost

6 Y-Wing Squadrons ( 60 points)
2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)
1 Luke Skywalker ( 20 points)

With BCC, Xwings are an excellent Anti-Bomber Bomber Screen. Especially with Torynn and BCC.

This is where I got to with the same concept:

Cluster bombs
Author: Ginkapo

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 400/400

Commander: Garm Bel Iblis

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)
- Ruthless Strategists ( 4 points)
- Cluster Bombs ( 5 points)
= 90 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)
- Bright Hope ( 2 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 32 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II B (72 points)
- Garm Bel Iblis ( 25 points)
- Ruthless Strategists ( 4 points)
- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)
- Cluster Bombs ( 5 points)
= 110 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 53 total ship cost

7 Y-Wing Squadrons ( 70 points)
1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)
2 YT-1300s ( 26 points)

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Fleet created with Armada Warlords

and its imperial counterpart:

Da NavBomber
Author: Ginkapo

Faction: Galactic Empire
Points: 392/400

Commander: General Tagge

Assault Objective: Precision Strike
Defense Objective: Fleet Ambush
Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Interdictor-class Suppression Refit (90 points)
- General Tagge ( 25 points)
- Interdictor ( 3 points)
- Wulff Yularen ( 7 points)
- Projection Experts ( 6 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- G-8 Experiemental Projector ( 8 points)
- Targeting Scrambler ( 5 points)
= 150 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)
- Demolisher ( 10 points)
- Agent Kallus ( 3 points)
- Ruthless Strategists ( 4 points)
= 79 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)
- Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams ( 6 points)
- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)
= 37 total ship cost

1 Dengar ( 20 points)
1 TIE Advanced Squadron ( 12 points)
1 Major Rhymer ( 16 points)
7 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 63 points)
1 "Mauler" Mithel ( 15 points)

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Fleet created with Armada Warlords

As someone who tried a similar concept from Imperial side, it is definitely feasible. Several thoughts:

1. Add Gunnery teams on AF (to take AS shot as well as regular shot). Spinals may be an interesting play.

2. It may be worth bumping some of the transports to combat version to give them blue AS die.

EDIT: And my version of this concept is below

VGGg

Faction: Galactic Empire

Points: 399/400

Commander: Admiral Screed

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] Victory I-Class Star Destroyer (73 points)

- Admiral Screed ( 26 points)

- Flight Controllers ( 6 points)

- Boosted Comms ( 4 points)

= 109 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)

- Insidious ( 3 points)

- Ruthless Strategists ( 4 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

= 74 total ship cost

Gladiator II-Class Star Destroyer (62 points)

- Demolisher ( 10 points)

- Intel Officer ( 7 points)

- Ruthless Strategists ( 4 points)

- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)

- Assault Proton Torpedoes ( 5 points)

= 91 total ship cost

Gozanti-class Cruisers (23 points)

- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)

= 31 total ship cost

4 TIE Bomber Squadrons ( 36 points)

2 TIE Interceptor Squadrons ( 22 points)

2 Firespray-31s ( 36 points)

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Fleet created with Armada Warlords

Thanks! These are all things I considered but eventually ditched, but I will have another look at.

PT: Gunnery teams and ruthless share a spot so that is a tough decision for this fleet. Do I want to deal 1 extra damage to all fighters with ruthless, or take a second shot at a ship? In the end I leaned into ruthless as if I remove that I start down a slippery slope of changes that lead me back to a normal bomber ball. Additionally, Spinals have gone on in place of XI7's and then off again more times than I can count. I definitely like Spinals on a B, just having trouble with the fact that on this ship it would be no modification and mitigation against a ship.

And I know X-Wings are their own fighter support, but they don't have a hit crit, and they rely on winning the squadron battle first, then bombing.

Both of these are a large deterrent to me, as I want to be able to do two damage and resolve a crit with my bombers, not one or the other, and if I am fighting an opponent with a heavy ship fleet and a couple of tough fighters like a Vader/IG-88/Fel/Dengar screen than they could potentially delay and decrease my damage output enough that by the time the X-wings start on ships it isn't enough to bring down an interdoctor or an ISD-II.

Also Gink: Initially the X-Wings in this build were YT-1300's and I swapped them last minute, but I appreciate you posting that list for comparison. The two are close enough but different enough that I nabbed some good insight, I think, into some ways I might tweak mine.

PT: Gunnery teams and ruthless share a spot so that is a tough decision for this fleet.

PT: Gunnery teams and ruthless share a spot so that is a tough decision for this fleet.

Ah. Thats true, I had a mindblock. Another interesting option would be to use Torpedo MC30 as a cheapest RS delivery platform available to Rebels.

That one I have tried. Ywings without activations dont work very well, and the MC30 lacks the ability to help in any meaningful way.

PT: Gunnery teams and ruthless share a spot so that is a tough decision for this fleet.

Ah. Thats true, I had a mindblock. Another interesting option would be to use Torpedo MC30 as a cheapest RS delivery platform available to Rebels.

That one I have tried. Ywings without activations dont work very well, and the MC30 lacks the ability to help in any meaningful way.

Hmm, a mix of YWings/YT2400 then? 2 Torpedo boats with RS and APT, Yavaris, 2 transports, Cracken.

So looking at the most recent vassal tournament final match got me thinking about the inevitability of bomber fleets meeting up in wave 4 tournaments. This got me thinking as to how I could tailor a list to both field a fierce bomber compliment but also shred an opponents bomber force.

This led me to relying on ships for AS fire, and switching to primarily Y wings from B wings to get extra hull for ruthless strategists. This is very much a work in progress but I want to see if in general what I am missing so I can make any obvious but not obvious to me changes before I get something on the table to try out in a friendly game before going back to the drawing board.

Or, if you have flown a similar fleet and it tanked, let me know so I can redirect my efforts!

Why Wings?

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 391/400

Commander: General Dodonna

Assault Objective: Precision Strike

Defense Objective: Hyperspace Assault

Navigation Objective: Superior Positions

[ flagship ] GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

- General Dodonna ( 20 points)

- Toryn Farr ( 7 points)

- Comms Net ( 2 points)

= 47 total ship cost

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points)

- Yavaris ( 5 points)

- Raymus Antilles ( 7 points)

- Fighter Coordination Team ( 3 points)

= 72 total ship cost

Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)

- Ruthless Strategists ( 4 points)

- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

- X17 Turbolasers ( 6 points)

= 98 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

- Bright Hope ( 2 points)

- Bomber Command Center ( 8 points)

= 28 total ship cost

GR-75 Medium Transports (18 points)

- Quantum Storm ( 1 points)

- Jamming Field ( 2 points)

= 21 total ship cost

6 Y-Wing Squadrons ( 60 points)

2 X-Wing Squadrons ( 26 points)

1 Jan Ors ( 19 points)

1 Luke Skywalker ( 20 points)

I like to see that so many people are working on this problem and the vastly different solutions they're arriving at. I've been working this as well, but ended up in entirely the opposite direction: B-wings are extraordinarily efficient in every respect except their speed, so how can I leverage their strengths while shoring up their weaknesses so that I can use them as both an effective anti-squadron screen and, once the fighter battle is done, threatening heavy bombers?

I took the below out for a spin last night and clobbered a Madine Liberty list. The idea here is that both the B-wings and the MC80 are very strong at two different roles, and can pivot dramatically and quickly between squadron defense and ship attack based on Defiance's command stack.

B-wing Screen (400/400)

======================

Home One: MC80 Command Cruiser (106 + 33)

+ Lando Calrissian (4)

+ Expanded Hangar Bay (5)

+ Advanced Projectors (6)

+ Leading Shots (4)

+ Fighter Coordination Team (3)

+ XI7 Turbolasers (6)

+ Defiance (5)

CR90 Corvette: CR90 Corvette B (39 + 35)

+ SW-7 Ion Batteries (5)

CR90 Corvette: CR90 Corvette B (39 + 5)

+ SW-7 Ion Batteries (5)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 40)

+ Bomber Command Center (8)

+ General Rieekan (30)

+ Bright Hope (2)

Rebel Transports: GR-75 Medium Transports (18 + 8)

+ Bomber Command Center (8)

Squadrons: B-wing Squadron (14)

Squadrons: B-wing Squadron (14)

Squadrons: B-wing Squadron (14)

Squadrons: B-wing Squadron (14)

Squadrons: B-wing Squadron (14)

Squadrons: Jan Ors (19)

Objectives Assault: Most Wanted (0)

Objectives Defense: Fire Lanes (0)

Objectives Navigation: Intel Sweep (0)

Thanks Ardaed, when I started tweaking this fleet I had a Defiance and B's, (though no 90B's so it was still a very different fleet)and it evolved into the list I have now... yeah it was a lot of little tweaks.

I like B's, they are awesome, but I still couldn't get the past the though that I have Jan in there so they can attack ships, why am I relying on them to win the squadron battle too? Could I do any better?

I think that is a solid fleet, and I know that I trust just about anyone on here to craft a more cohesive fleet than I can, so maybe I go back to B's and see if I can make that work. But I still think that there might be something to Y's as far as finding a sweet spot for a bomber list that can handle another bomber list just as well as it can handle a ship list.

Oh, wasn't saying your list is bad, just throwing out the solution I'd come to myself! Y's definitely have a place. Mine have served me well in the role of B-wing trade fodder, which is why I haven't flown them a lot...

Wow, I like a lot of ideas that this thread is generating. Having one a couple of tournaments with my own Dodonna Bomber list, and definitely with seeing the results from other tournaments, I've definitely begun looking at potential counters.

Ard, I like your B-wing/Rieekan Defiance. I had a long discussion with a fellow forum player about running B-wings instead of A's in my wave 2 list, but I never really got around to trying it. In a lot of ways, that might run better now.

What I like about the OP's post is that the squadron commands are all spread out among those transports. That keeps all the squads activating. The key for the bomber list would be eliminating the AF-A quickly. Do that and the rest of the list falls like a domino. I like Gink's doubling up on Ruthless strategists, so that one of the AF's cannot really be focused down. And doubly so for looking seriously at Cluster Bombs, which are honestly an overlooked upgrade. All of the defensive retrofits are meta dependent, and if you expect to see lots of squads with Intel freeing them to shoot at your ships, then a timely CB weakens squadron power quickly and gets even worse if they're bringing aces.

I'd aim to do everything as efficiently as possible. If you're going to use ship upgrades, then I'd think getting as much survivabilty on the squads but just going with fewer ones, while piling on the anti-squad upgrades on the ships. Yavaris+Dutch/Wedge+2 other squads then call it a day on squads. Then at least an AFMKII-A and a Yavaris to double tap Dutch/Wedge. I'd really have to sit down and work it out, but that's the first route that I'd try.

Thanks verg

I do realize I put a bunch of my eggs into a relatively large AFMKII basket, but large amounts of flotillas are good blockers and hard to pin down zipping all around. I overstack the activations so losing one carrier even before squads get knocked out keeps them activating. I would hope that losong the AF wouldnt be game over.