And those things that can operate to a tolerable level when stressed don't cost a thing? If you want to make a mountain of stress an issue then Tycho is going to be WAY overpriced as are many other things.

Not enough, most of the enablers for these types of things are desirable independent of stress (Manaroo, Dengar crew, OR4). I'm actually very cool with a carveout for Tycho, he's not overpowered and his entire purpose is to ignore stress. The intention is that conceptually he should be immune to the vast majority of negative effects of stress so him ignoring both low levels of stress and high levels of stress is totally fine with me.

Speaking of dengar specifically, dash still gets to arcdodge

Not even manny can pass rolls or boosts through stress

So ignoring debris or stress in general doesnt actually happen, esp if you roll a crit

And i know people like to think dengar is immune to stress despite no longer being able to roll, 2sloop right or 4k. Those things never matter, right? You become vastly more predictable? Perish the thought!

He loses access to all that the first time he uses Zuckuss. Cool, no problem there, it's a fair price to pay for such an amazing ability. The issue is when he uses it over and over and over again on every single shot. Zuckuss costs nothing to use after that first shot. I think that's a bit unbalanced for the cost and feels like it wasn't the intention of the card, I could be wrong of course.

He loses access to all that the first time he uses Zuckuss. Cool, no problem there, it's a fair price to pay for such an amazing ability. The issue is when he uses it over and over and over again on every single shot. Zuckuss costs nothing to use after that first shot. I think that's a bit unbalanced for the cost and feels like it wasn't the intention of the card, I could be wrong of course.

Actually, I think that was preciesly the intent of Zuckuss. It allows you to re-roll greens for stress with no cap, so it's extremely unlikely nobody saw stuff like 'I reroll all 4 of Soontir's greens and since I'll never clear 4 stress let's just keep Zuckuss-ing' coming.

The cost of using Zuckuss repeatedly is incredibly high: your ship loses access to all its red maneuvers and actions forever.

The problem (if you want to consider it a problem) runs deeper IMO. As the base premise stress, wheter inflicted as a penalty for something or as a means of control) is supposed to prevent actions. This works fine on many ships (stress Soontir to the point he can take no action and he's dead). The problem is that FFG has been gradually releasing ships and upgrades that make it possible to build ships that don't care about being actionless. Scum are just most prevalent due to Manaroo and their excellent actionless offense boosting crew (like Dengar, 4LOM, Bossk and soon IG-88D), but VCX with Hera and FCS and Defenders (they can't overstress themselves yet, but a Vessery with 50 stress is only marginally less effective than a Vessery with no stress) fall into the same category.

He loses access to all that the first time he uses Zuckuss. Cool, no problem there, it's a fair price to pay for such an amazing ability. The issue is when he uses it over and over and over again on every single shot. Zuckuss costs nothing to use after that first shot. I think that's a bit unbalanced for the cost and feels like it wasn't the intention of the card, I could be wrong of course.

Actually, I think that was preciesly the intent of Zuckuss. It allows you to re-roll greens for stress with no cap, so it's extremely unlikely nobody saw stuff like 'I reroll all 4 of Soontir's greens and since I'll never clear 4 stress let's just keep Zuckuss-ing' coming.

The cost of using Zuckuss repeatedly is incredibly high: your ship loses access to all its red maneuvers and actions forever.

The problem (if you want to consider it a problem) runs deeper IMO. As the base premise stress, wheter inflicted as a penalty for something or as a means of control) is supposed to prevent actions. This works fine on many ships (stress Soontir to the point he can take no action and he's dead). The problem is that FFG has been gradually releasing ships and upgrades that make it possible to build ships that don't care about being actionless. Scum are just most prevalent due to Manaroo and their excellent actionless offense boosting crew (like Dengar, 4LOM, Bossk and soon IG-88D), but VCX with Hera and FCS and Defenders (they can't overstress themselves yet, but a Vessery with 50 stress is only marginally less effective than a Vessery with no stress) fall into the same category.

I think the initial concept for the card was that you'd have him pal around with 4-LOM driving a Misthunter, taking a stress or two in order to help push through a couple of damage, and then dump it to the guy you just shot at range 1. He'd be a good card but stuck in a mediocre ship for his synergy and you'd have to be careful about not over using him. In other words about where a 1 cost crew should be.

Complete agreement about the core problem, that stress is supposed to limit your options and in some cases it's no longer effectively doing its job, I think only our preferred solutions differ. I kind of like the fact that you can make action independent builds, it expands the scope of possible builds and prevent stress dealers like R3-A2 or similar future cards from becoming too good. So I don't want them to necessarily go away, nor do I think at this point you could realistically do that since they're out in the wild already. That's why I'd prefer to continue lettting people pay good points for cards and ships to get the benefit of ignoring low amounts of stress and only alter things at the extreme side of the curve when people pile on massive amounts of stress. The fact that it can be potentially done with a rule change ala the Phantom and R4A fix with no direct card alterations is huge bonus.

I kind of like the fact that you can make action independent builds, it expands the scope of possible builds and prevent stress dealers like R3-A2 or similar future cards from becoming too good. So I don't want them to necessarily go away, nor do I think at this point you could realistically do that since they're out in the wild already. That's why I'd prefer to continue letting people pay good points for cards and ships to get the benefit of ignoring low amounts of stress and only alter things at the extreme side of the curve when people pile on massive amounts of stress.

The problem is exactly defining what 'massive' amounts of stress means (my guess is that eveyone and their dog will have a different opinion on this) and balancing it so stuff like Zuckuss doesn't just fade away to the big pile of non-competitive stuff. Nobody has broke the game with infinite stress yet.

Looking and Zuckuss specifically (since it's prevalent), but same argument can be made about Rage (which only works on Tycho currently) : the card almost only sees play on builds that can completely ignore his drawback (which can be interpreted as a sign that the drawback is too strong for the benefit so the card is not properly balanced), and none of these ships are completely dominating the meta (nothing close to pre-nerf Phantoms for example). They're just there at the top, together with many other things. If you made Zuckuss strictly worse, what makes you think those builds wouldn't just fall back down to the 'doesn't quite cut it' level ?

I think the game does need a mechanic to disincentivize excessive stress, but whatever that mechanic is, it can't hurt tycho.

Tycho needs a buff, even. Hes a really cool ship, and the idea of a hyper-maneuverable pea-shooter ace is fun and shouldn't be weakened.

In fact, the stressbot, too, shouldn't be nerfed.

Maybe make a missile or something that does extra damage yo ships loaded with stress,but can't be fired at a small ship?

I dunno, something.

For all of you who think that the pile of stress should lead to lasting hardship does hitting that lasting hardship also remove that entire mountain of stress at that time as well?

I mean if you're opperating well enough under the mountain of stress but then some how it suddenly "breaks through" enough to cause damage then all of that old stress should be gone as it had to pay for that drawback.

If you think a ship that has 5+ stress tokens should be rolling for damage every time it gets another without doing anything to remove the stress then you are really piling on more suffering onto any pain the Stress already brings. If you're going to allow stress to continue to pile on and punish a ship every time it gains more stress then maybe a ship's attack rating should drop after every (2, 3, or what ever but not too many) attack(s). Same difference.

Might make for a good mechanic in a Scenario game but at some point you have to make stress a good thing. One or 2 stress a little uncomfortable. 3-5 dangerous, but say if you hit 10 or something all of a sudden stress no longer becomes a handicap, instead it becomes an advantage. Sort of like a risk Reward mechanic. a few stress is minor annoyance and a lot of stress is dangerous but you will need a lot more stress to get something incredible.

So what you're saying is that ignoring stress is a crutch?

For all of you who think that the pile of stress should lead to lasting hardship does hitting that lasting hardship also remove that entire mountain of stress at that time as well?

I mean if you're opperating well enough under the mountain of stress but then some how it suddenly "breaks through" enough to cause damage then all of that old stress should be gone as it had to pay for that drawback.

If you think a ship that has 5+ stress tokens should be rolling for damage every time it gets another without doing anything to remove the stress then you are really piling on more suffering onto any pain the Stress already brings. If you're going to allow stress to continue to pile on and punish a ship every time it gains more stress then maybe a ship's attack rating should drop after every (2, 3, or what ever but not too many) attack(s). Same difference.

Might make for a good mechanic in a Scenario game but at some point you have to make stress a good thing. One or 2 stress a little uncomfortable. 3-5 dangerous, but say if you hit 10 or something all of a sudden stress no longer becomes a handicap, instead it becomes an advantage. Sort of like a risk Reward mechanic. a few stress is minor annoyance and a lot of stress is dangerous but you will need a lot more stress to get something incredible.

In my experience with that game Junia goes stark raving mad, attacks all of her companions, and develops acute necrophilia...

The problem is exactly defining what 'massive' amounts of stress means (my guess is that eveyone and their dog will have a different opinion on this) and balancing it so stuff like Zuckuss doesn't just fade away to the big pile of non-competitive stuff. Nobody has broke the game with infinite stress yet.

Looking and Zuckuss specifically (since it's prevalent), but same argument can be made about Rage (which only works on Tycho currently) : the card almost only sees play on builds that can completely ignore his drawback (which can be interpreted as a sign that the drawback is too strong for the benefit so the card is not properly balanced), and none of these ships are completely dominating the meta (nothing close to pre-nerf Phantoms for example). They're just there at the top, together with many other things. If you made Zuckuss strictly worse, what makes you think those builds wouldn't just fall back down to the 'doesn't quite cut it' level ?

Fair point. But honestly I think Zuckuss is cheap enough that he'd still see some play. Used sparingly he's like a reusable 50/50 crackshot and you can force full rerolls for alpha strikes or clutch situations, which again seems about right for a 1 point crew. If you're playing scum and have a ship with a crew slot he's almost always worth taking even if you aren't running something that ignores stress.

Rages problem is twofold, first it takes up an EPT slot and there are so many other really good EPTs that even middle of the road ones don't see play. Second, positively modifying red dice isn't as good and negatively modifying green dice. A palp ace is still very likely to dodge 4 hits, you're more likely to get some damage through with focus + Zuckuss. The stress is bad sure but it can obviously be worked around, really it's benefits just not good enough when compared with other easier to use options.

The problem is exactly defining what 'massive' amounts of stress means (my guess is that eveyone and their dog will have a different opinion on this) and balancing it so stuff like Zuckuss doesn't just fade away to the big pile of non-competitive stuff. Nobody has broke the game with infinite stress yet.

Looking and Zuckuss specifically (since it's prevalent), but same argument can be made about Rage (which only works on Tycho currently) : the card almost only sees play on builds that can completely ignore his drawback (which can be interpreted as a sign that the drawback is too strong for the benefit so the card is not properly balanced), and none of these ships are completely dominating the meta (nothing close to pre-nerf Phantoms for example). They're just there at the top, together with many other things. If you made Zuckuss strictly worse, what makes you think those builds wouldn't just fall back down to the 'doesn't quite cut it' level ?

Fair point. But honestly I think Zuckuss is cheap enough that he'd still see some play. Used sparingly he's like a reusable 50/50 crackshot and you can force full rerolls for alpha strikes or clutch situations, which again seems about right for a 1 point crew. If you're playing scum and have a ship with a crew slot he's almost always worth taking even if you aren't running something that ignores stress.

You're wrong on this IMO. How many lists have you seen the top region of the tournament results that run Zuckuss just because they are running a ship with a free crew slot ?

You also needs to remember 4LOM, which has the same price, fulfills similar function but at a much less severe drawback for large ships (which form the bulk of Scum competitive crew-bearing ships; Hwks and G1-A aren't that great). Unlike Zuckuss, 4LOM does appear semi-regularly on ships with a crew slot and 1 point to spare.

I think Stress is fine as is. It makes a huge impact against the vast majority of ships in the game in particular aces and ships with poor dials. The issue here is a single card within a specific build due once again to the neglect of not putting a range on a squadron support ability.

In my mind the Rebels seem to have the most squadron support style abilities and yet they all have range, timing or logistical limitations. Without getting too ranty manaroo has made a loophole in the major downsides of stress but with no limitations at all. Its a great and interesting ability....its just poorly designed.

As far as zuckus is concerned....I like it. I feel like it was introduced to put a dent in the Imperial Aces builds which is welcome but its drawback has little effect on the two ships that generally take it. Scum synergy is best synergy...that is the curse of the Catch up faction.

I think Stress is fine as is. It makes a huge impact against the vast majority of ships in the game in particular aces and ships with poor dials. The issue here is a single card within a specific build due once again to the neglect of not putting a range on a squadron support ability.

In my mind the Rebels seem to have the most squadron support style abilities and yet they all have range, timing or logistical limitations. Without getting too ranty manaroo has made a loophole in the major downsides of stress but with no limitations at all. Its a great and interesting ability....its just poorly designed.

As far as zuckus is concerned....I like it. I feel like it was introduced to put a dent in the Imperial Aces builds which is welcome but its drawback has little effect on the two ships that generally take it. Scum synergy is best synergy...that is the curse of the Catch up faction.

This is largely how I feel about the matter too.

Personally I deeply dislike support abilities with no range limit, like Palpatine and Manaroo (from a concept standpoint, regardless of their power). I think the game would be overall better if support ships had to commit to the fight as well.

Regarding Zuckuss, I don't see him as a problem, but rather as a solution to the problem called Palp Aces. Hyper-defensive ships, who roll 3 or 4 greens, backed up by Autothrusters, a stack of tokens (focus and evade) and Palpatine are a problem, because now FFG needs to hand everybody else ways to either stop that from happening (like the stresshog) or to punch through that (which is what 4LOM and Zuckuss do).

Putting all balance issues aside for a second I do think it's absurd that Stress has become an almost meaningless mechanic, indeed in some builds it IS a meaningless mechanic.

I'd welcome something that punishes ships with a large number of stress tokens stacked on them, if only to keep the whoke mechanic relevant.

Going back into balance issues: In a world where Zuckuss crew is 1 point, no ship should see stress as a minor inconvenience at worst.

It is meaningless for 3 ships in the whole game: Tycho, partybus and Dengar in Dengaroo. Saying it is a useless mechanic as a whole is hyperbole at the very least.

I think Stress is fine as is. It makes a huge impact against the vast majority of ships in the game in particular aces and ships with poor dials. The issue here is a single card within a specific build due once again to the neglect of not putting a range on a squadron support ability.

In my mind the Rebels seem to have the most squadron support style abilities and yet they all have range, timing or logistical limitations. Without getting too ranty manaroo has made a loophole in the major downsides of stress but with no limitations at all. Its a great and interesting ability....its just poorly designed.

As far as zuckus is concerned....I like it. I feel like it was introduced to put a dent in the Imperial Aces builds which is welcome but its drawback has little effect on the two ships that generally take it. Scum synergy is best synergy...that is the curse of the Catch up faction.

This is largely how I feel about the matter too.

Personally I deeply dislike support abilities with no range limit, like Palpatine and Manaroo (from a concept standpoint, regardless of their power). I think the game would be overall better if support ships had to commit to the fight as well.

Regarding Zuckuss, I don't see him as a problem, but rather as a solution to the problem called Palp Aces. Hyper-defensive ships, who roll 3 or 4 greens, backed up by Autothrusters, a stack of tokens (focus and evade) and Palpatine are a problem, because now FFG needs to hand everybody else ways to either stop that from happening (like the stresshog) or to punch through that (which is what 4LOM and Zuckuss do).

I have mixed feelings about Palpatine. I absolutely love the theory behind his ability. He's such a demonstrably powerful manipulator and force wielder that if something's not going his way, he would absolutely just wave his hand to subtly shift things so that they would turn around. And the way it's implemented in the game, it's elegant and perfectly thematic.

However, I have difficulties believing he'd involve himself in a conflict involving not even a squadron's-worth of enemy ships. Yes, he rides a Lambda shuttle in Jedi, but not when conflict is imminent. I think he should have been huge-ship-only. I don't see him entering a battle on anything smaller than a Raider, and even then, I think thematically, that's pushing it.

On the other hand, Lords of the Sith is an awesome book, so.... yeah, I'm conflicted. I still think huge-only would have been best in the context of X-Wing. That way, he's not the crutch of the entire list, but can either protect the most important pilots or help them hit harder.

I think Zuckuss overall is fine, but he probably should have been once per round. That wouldn't really change how he's used in most contexts, but would balance Dengar a bit.

Regarding the topic at hand (stress), I may be biased because of my love for my Kath/Bossk party bus list in my signature, but overall I think it's fine. I wouldn't exactly call even Dengar or Party Bus with the mountain of stress "consequence-free," particularly Dengar, because he's only effective with that stress as long as Manaroo is still alive. I've been watching several various Nationals streams over the past couple weeks, and I'm noticing that at the top level, people are pretty handily defeating Dengaroo by targetting Manaroo first. Just like Palp Aces, you need to find and target any list's achilles heel, and if you can focus that down, you pretty much won. Because Dengar is just a 3-die attack until you shoot back at him from within his firing arc. If Dengar piles on the stress too quickly, he looses all of his own repositioning and dice modifications. Good luck taking out Palp Aces without any dice mods.

The party bus is quite a bit more consequence-free with the stress mountain than Dengar, mostly since Zuckuss/4-LOM just obliterates the enemy's defense dice and the ship has no repositioning options anyway, but it still looses out on one of its favorite tricks: the stop. Yes, you can take Inertial Dampeners (and I do), but that's only a one-off. The white 3-turn is really what makes it powerful, but it still needs a lot of space to make that happen, and as a result, it's not terribly difficult to get behind it. Sure, with the right foresight you can outmaneuver a surprising amount of slippery ships with those turns, but obstacles will be your worst enemy, and it takes a sh**load of foresight to make that happen before you inevitably go poof. I've had several situations where I would have loved to have access to my 2-turns while stressed.

Overall, I think it's just a strong tool people have discovered, and maybe Zuckuss could have been priced a little better (even 2 points would have been fine, I think) and should have been once per round. That way he couldn't be stacked with Gunner, IG88B plus IG88D crew, or Dengar. But, I think it's overall fine. Lack of actions, once you take away what makes those pilots shrug it off (the party bus' positioning and Dengar's Manaroo), its effectiveness drops drastically.

As a result, I don't think the stress mountains are the problem with the current meta. I think it's Dengar's white sloop. I get that they wanted an asymmetrical dial, but it probably should have only had the left-sloop, and it should have been red.

And regarding Tycho: that was his entire point: a pilot that just flat out ignores stress (but even then, he can't K-turn, so it's not consequence-free). Read Michael Stackpole's X-Wing series and just look at his alternate-art card if you need context, and it hasn't exactly made him a meta-dominant entity, like, ever. Even after the A-Wing's fixes AND Rage, Tycho is niche at best. So we can forget about him in this debate.

EDIT: Also, I've seen Zuckuss force rerolls to the same results SO MANY TIMES. And I've even seen it reroll to BETTER results in Dengar, because he can't be paired with 4-LOM in a Jumpmaster.

I think Zuckuss overall is fine, but he probably should have been once per round. That wouldn't really change how he's used in most contexts, but would balance Dengar a bit.

Why do you think Dengar is unbalanced currently?

I think Zuckuss overall is fine, but he probably should have been once per round. That wouldn't really change how he's used in most contexts, but would balance Dengar a bit.

Why do you think Dengar is unbalanced currently?

Short answer: the sum of all of his shenanigans. A single ship should not completely carry a 100 point list.

Specifically with Zuckuss: it would help make his attack-after-defending less scary. I've played with Dengar a few times, and it's not really that fun when the enemy has a good opportunity to attack and doesn't take it because of Dengar's potential second attack. It basically means that until Manaroo dies, Dengar isn't even in danger. Just compounds his already powerful pilot ability. If Zuckuss was once per round, you'd have to choose which attack to use it on, and because of Dengar's intimidating attack potential, you could be forced to make a difficult choice about when to use it, kind of like debating whether to spend your only focus token on your attack or save it for your defense (to then not do damage and roll no focuses on defense), and if you roll no focuses after that, then tough luck, you could have taken a different action. A once-per-round Zuckuss would have had a similar effect on Dengar.

I think Zuckuss overall is fine, but he probably should have been once per round. That wouldn't really change how he's used in most contexts, but would balance Dengar a bit.

Why do you think Dengar is unbalanced currently?

Short answer: the sum of all of his shenanigans. A single ship should not completely carry a 100 point list.

Specifically with Zuckuss: it would help make his attack-after-defending less scary. I've played with Dengar a few times, and it's not really that fun when the enemy has a good opportunity to attack and doesn't take it because of Dengar's potential second attack. It basically means that until Manaroo dies, Dengar isn't even in danger. Just compounds his already powerful pilot ability. If Zuckuss was once per round, you'd have to choose which attack to use it on, and because of Dengar's intimidating attack potential, you could be forced to make a difficult choice about when to use it, kind of like debating whether to spend your only focus token on your attack or save it for your defense (to then not do damage and roll no focuses on defense), and if you roll no focuses after that, then tough luck, you could have taken a different action. A once-per-round Zuckuss would have had a similar effect on Dengar.

Dengaroo however doesn't seem to win more in tournaments than most other top tier competitive lists. Wouldn't that make it balanced against them?

Thing is that, if we consider the above as true (Dengaroo is not dominating other competitive lists), any significant nerf to it would likely result in Dengaroo no longer being competitive. Is that the end goal?

Make Manaroo R1-3?

They didn't learn with Palpatine, not surprised they did it Manaroo

I think Zuckuss overall is fine, but he probably should have been once per round. That wouldn't really change how he's used in most contexts, but would balance Dengar a bit.

Why do you think Dengar is unbalanced currently?

Short answer: the sum of all of his shenanigans. A single ship should not completely carry a 100 point list.

Specifically with Zuckuss: it would help make his attack-after-defending less scary. I've played with Dengar a few times, and it's not really that fun when the enemy has a good opportunity to attack and doesn't take it because of Dengar's potential second attack. It basically means that until Manaroo dies, Dengar isn't even in danger. Just compounds his already powerful pilot ability. If Zuckuss was once per round, you'd have to choose which attack to use it on, and because of Dengar's intimidating attack potential, you could be forced to make a difficult choice about when to use it, kind of like debating whether to spend your only focus token on your attack or save it for your defense (to then not do damage and roll no focuses on defense), and if you roll no focuses after that, then tough luck, you could have taken a different action. A once-per-round Zuckuss would have had a similar effect on Dengar.

Dengaroo however doesn't seem to win more in tournaments than most other top tier competitive lists. Wouldn't that make it balanced against them?

Thing is that, if we consider the above as true (Dengaroo is not dominating other competitive lists), any significant nerf to it would likely result in Dengaroo no longer being competitive. Is that the end goal?

Not necessarily. Making Zuckuss once-per-round isn't a significant nerf, but it forces a bit more strategy and forethought. Palpatine is the same way: if I abuse it too early, it may not be an optimal opportunity, and then I may not have it when I really need it. On the other hand, if I wait to use it, I may not need it, or it may be too little too late.

I guess it'd just make it more interesting to use rather than just being a crutch (heh). On reflection, probably more of a personal preference issue than a balance issue. This is why I'm not a game designer.

Putting all balance issues aside for a second I do think it's absurd that Stress has become an almost meaningless mechanic, indeed in some builds it IS a meaningless mechanic.

I'd welcome something that punishes ships with a large number of stress tokens stacked on them, if only to keep the whoke mechanic relevant.

Going back into balance issues: In a world where Zuckuss crew is 1 point, no ship should see stress as a minor inconvenience at worst.

It is meaningless for 3 ships in the whole game: Tycho, partybus and Dengar in Dengaroo. Saying it is a useless mechanic as a whole is hyperbole at the very least.

And near meaningless for anything with Hera on it, especially if that thing also has other means of getting actions.

I didn't say it was a useless mechanic either, I said it was almost meaningless, which is becoming more and more true with every new ship or card which allows stress to be ignored.

I've seen Ghosts, Dengars, Psychos, Partybusses, all riding around with D20s for stress counters... In my opinion that's stupid, and I'd welcome something to make stress more relevant again.

It's clear FFG want stress to be a penalty - why else would Zuckuss be only 1 point when his ability messes your opponents defence so much? That stress you take is meant to be a penalty for using him, not a minor inconvenience.

It's clear FFG want stress to be a penalty - why else would Zuckuss be only 1 point when his ability messes your opponents defence so much? That stress you take is meant to be a penalty for using him, not a minor inconvenience.

X-wing is a game where exceptions to the base rules abound. There's plenty of other examples where something is generally bad, but then you get a card that either allows you to ignore it or turn it to your benefit.

Manaroo passes Focus and Target Lock by design. I give FFG designers and play testers enough credit to say they realized Manaroo can pass tokens to a stressed ship. Therefore, the fact that there is no restriction like 'cannot pass tokens to a stressed ship' makes me think it's intended that Manaroo allows you to bypass the no actions downside of stress for one ship (as long as you're content that these actions can only be Focus and Target Lock).

Also, Zuckuss (and 4LOM) might only be 1 point because maybe FFG wants to reign in aces a bit (stuff like BMST, Rigged Cargo Chute and the pilot abilities of Ketsu and Ventress seem targeted primarily at aces too).

I think Zuckuss overall is fine, but he probably should have been once per round. That wouldn't really change how he's used in most contexts, but would balance Dengar a bit.

Why do you think Dengar is unbalanced currently?

Short answer: the sum of all of his shenanigans. A single ship should not completely carry a 100 point list.

Specifically with Zuckuss: it would help make his attack-after-defending less scary. I've played with Dengar a few times, and it's not really that fun when the enemy has a good opportunity to attack and doesn't take it because of Dengar's potential second attack. It basically means that until Manaroo dies, Dengar isn't even in danger. Just compounds his already powerful pilot ability. If Zuckuss was once per round, you'd have to choose which attack to use it on, and because of Dengar's intimidating attack potential, you could be forced to make a difficult choice about when to use it, kind of like debating whether to spend your only focus token on your attack or save it for your defense (to then not do damage and roll no focuses on defense), and if you roll no focuses after that, then tough luck, you could have taken a different action. A once-per-round Zuckuss would have had a similar effect on Dengar.

Dengaroo however doesn't seem to win more in tournaments than most other top tier competitive lists. Wouldn't that make it balanced against them?

Thing is that, if we consider the above as true (Dengaroo is not dominating other competitive lists), any significant nerf to it would likely result in Dengaroo no longer being competitive. Is that the end goal?

Not necessarily. Making Zuckuss once-per-round isn't a significant nerf, but it forces a bit more strategy and forethought. Palpatine is the same way: if I abuse it too early, it may not be an optimal opportunity, and then I may not have it when I really need it. On the other hand, if I wait to use it, I may not need it, or it may be too little too late.

I guess it'd just make it more interesting to use rather than just being a crutch (heh). On reflection, probably more of a personal preference issue than a balance issue. This is why I'm not a game designer.

Dengaroo is a dice trade list. What makes it good is that Dengar (when supported by Manaroo) can trade dice with 100 points worth of ships if he gets to attack twice (and the white s-loop ensures he gets to attack twice). Nerfig Zuckuss to only work on half of Dengar's attacks in a round affects Dengar's ability to trade dice (how much depends on the list; not at all vs. dual VCX, enormously vs. TIE Swarms or Aces). If Dengar can no longer wins dice trades, then this effectively kills Dengaroo as a competitive list.

Well stress limits actions and maneuvering a lot and soon the Black market slicer tool will strike on tables so it will make people think twice about stress builds, like zuckuss.

Putting all balance issues aside for a second I do think it's absurd that Stress has become an almost meaningless mechanic, indeed in some builds it IS a meaningless mechanic.

I'd welcome something that punishes ships with a large number of stress tokens stacked on them, if only to keep the whoke mechanic relevant.

Going back into balance issues: In a world where Zuckuss crew is 1 point, no ship should see stress as a minor inconvenience at worst.

So untrue! Stress has huge effect on the game and only few ships deny some effects of it..

Well stress limits actions and maneuvering a lot and soon the Black market slicer tool will strike on tables so it will make people think twice about stress builds, like zuckuss.

Zuckuss on a party bus wont really care. Zuckuss on dengaroo MIGHT, but only if you have enough slicers to kil him before he kills your slicers

Putting all balance issues aside for a second I do think it's absurd that Stress has become an almost meaningless mechanic, indeed in some builds it IS a meaningless mechanic.

I'd welcome something that punishes ships with a large number of stress tokens stacked on them, if only to keep the whoke mechanic relevant.

Going back into balance issues: In a world where Zuckuss crew is 1 point, no ship should see stress as a minor inconvenience at worst.

So untrue! Stress has huge effect on the game and only few ships deny some effects of it..

Sure. That's why push the limit is such a rarely used upgrade, why zuckuss is considered a terrible crew, and why the D20 has never been used as a stress counter in place of tokens. That's why stresshog is still a staple of rebel lists now.

Oh wait... none of those things are true.