Accumulating too many stress tokens and still being effective needs to be penalized even more than Stress already penalizes a ship?

Yes actually. The stress mechanic is largely balanced around the concept of ships having 0, 1, or 2 stress. When at the end of turn a ship has no stress they have full access to their dial and actions, when they have 1 they entirely lose access to red moves and have to make a choice between taking actions or using the white part of their dial. When they have 2 then no reds and they are guaranteed no actions even if they use a green. Each additional stress further restricts the ships options and thus has a negative consequence.

That whole system breaks down after that though as there is little to no difference between stress 8 and stress 9. You gain no additional penalties for that 9th stress and realistically the game isn't likely to last long enough for you to clear them so there is no downside to it. That's a problem if card abilities (like Zuckuss) are costed, both in terms of points and opportunity cost, in such as way that they assume taking a stress is always a negative as it is in the 0-2 phase. No one could reasonably argue that Zuckuss would be fairly priced if he did not also have some downside, in this case stress. But that's effectively how he operates in some builds past his first use because adding a 3rd, 4th, or 100th stress makes no material difference.

I'd say put the limit up to 20 that way I can use my critical hit die as a stress counter.

Who knows, maybe make a special rule once you hit 20 stress all your focus results count as hits or evades.

How many ship can operate anywhere near maximum performance with Stress on them? Usually Tycho is one of them because the loss of k-turn use is his biggest problem with Stress although it also prevents him from using a few Stress limited upgrades; the damage card turning more maneuvers Red would also be a huge drawback although it shouldn't last long because it means he's just one hit away from dying and has likely just had a big portion of the dial nerfed further.

After that you get ships that can operate while Stressed but saying they are as effective as they could be without Stress is probably pushing it. If you don't like the super Stressed ship then do something about it instead of expecting an additional new rule just because you don't like it.

Those Black Market Slicer tools seem like they may kill any Stress ignores enough that if they became a big enough issue to the metagame they'd basically provide a simple counter to them.

Zuckuss is not the problem here.

It is for sure Manaroo and her range-independent ability.

Wow...you guys REALLY hate Dengaroo, huh? (probably still an understatement)

Wow...you guys REALLY hate Dengaroo, huh? (probably still an understatement)

I do. It is the most un-fun and annoying list to play against

Wow...you guys REALLY hate Dengaroo, huh? (probably still an understatement)

I do. It is the most un-fun and annoying list to play against

Hasn't bothered me a ton to play against. Pretty sure I've won more than I've lost against it

I don't see the problem. I am trying to explain this thematically now - maybe they have some idk.. neural impants? xD Or overdosing glitterstim or just such a skilled pilot, that he/she can do those things.

I am guessing stress is caused for the crew, not that the ship is pushed to the edge by using such a maneuver.

Well, I did/do loose against Manaroo and Dengar builds, but any other list?

I do fly a Ghost with Hera, but that's flying brick.

I think that anything that you do like that will just kill tycho, he is already on a fragile ship, rolling red dice just because of him having a certain amount of stress is going to push him further out of the game than he already is especially with BMST coming out, and the other lists you mention still need actions, it is just manaroo that keeps the combo going, hell Palob/vi wes/jax/ old teroch all can neuter dengaroo and they are not exactly uncommon in lists now

Putting all balance issues aside for a second I do think it's absurd that Stress has become an almost meaningless mechanic, indeed in some builds it IS a meaningless mechanic.

I'd welcome something that punishes ships with a large number of stress tokens stacked on them, if only to keep the whoke mechanic relevant.

Going back into balance issues: In a world where Zuckuss crew is 1 point, no ship should see stress as a minor inconvenience at worst.

Make Manaroo R1-3?

Makaze explained it best. Stress in meaningful in most ships. However, in a few builds, stress is meaningless, and all cards that are balanced around the fact that they give stress to the user, become totally unbalanced, because stress doesn't affect the user.

Stress could be FAQ'd with additional effects without need to change printed material.

In addition to not being able to perform actions or red maneuvers, some other effect needs to be added for those ships that get tokens and modifications from unstressed ships to absurd levels so that it doesn't become meaningless.

"Stress token rules reference card (extended)

[...]

Whenever you are going to be assigned a stress token, if you have 5 or more stress tokens already, roll 1 attack die and suffer the damage and critical damage rolled.

All ships gain this ability text:

Action: Discard all stress tokens."

Explanation:

The Action doesn't seem to make sense, right? What's the point of an action to discard stress when you cannot do actions while you are stressed?

Well, it has a reason: pilots and upgrades that are meant to bypass stress by design still can do so. Tycho can perform the action above by his pilot ability, as well as the "Chopper" crew upgrade would allow to do so at the cost of suffering 1 damage.

At the same time, other ships not "meant" to stack stress to absurd levels need to do some greens now and then to avoid self damaging themselves when they surpass 5 stress.

Imperials are always moaning, i wouldn't worry about it too much.

Gotta replace all those TIE fighter pilots who keep getting shot down.

Add a global rule: a ship cannot voluntarily get more stress than his pilot skill. I.e. You cannot use R3-A2, zukuss, ptl, red maneuver with Hera, etc .. if the number of stress assign to the ship would put it above his PS.

Even ships that can pile up stress like Tycho and Hera (crew) are not entirely unaffected by it. Stressed Tycho can take actions but cannot K-turn while a stressed ship with Hera onboard is still losing its actions. The Ghost can get around it to some extent by using FCS to gain Target Locks but it still loses its ability to Evade or Focus and if the system slot is used by the FCS then it is not taking RD or SJ to mitigate damage (meaning it can be burned down even faster).

I have almost never had Lothal Rebel with Hera survive a game. Zero agility, no actions and a giant bullseye on the hull means it goes down faster than a lead balloon. Does it need to be penalised even further considering most lists can shoot it down in 2 turns if they wish?

Psycho-Tycho is kinda fun but I don't actually see him fielded that often. Most A-wings are either GSP for dual EPT combos, Prototype Pilots for cheap blockers or Jake Farrel for action economy.

Zuckuss can be used ad-nauseum but then his own ship loses both red maneuvers and actions.

I have yet to play against or pilot a ship that had more than 4 stress tokens; you guys (the stress stack-ers) are -within the rules- but nuts. If I faced that, I'd like Asrapse's idea:

"Whenever you are going to be assigned a stress token, if you have 5 or more stress tokens already, roll 1 attack die and suffer the damage and critical damage rolled."

Just make that something that happens to 100% of ships, 100% of the time. That way, stress would actually cause STRESS, which it's supposed to by simple definition of the $@%& word, right?

...also, on a lighter note, players wouldn't need to bring 30 stress tokens with them to the game with their squad, haha.

Anyone clamoring for more drawbacks to stress are simply ignorant of the sheer bliss to be had when flying TLT zuckuss hwks

Between red 3 bank, stims and zuckuss v an obstructed dengaroo denger i got 9 stress in 1 turn (and two damage)

For all of you who think that the pile of stress should lead to lasting hardship does hitting that lasting hardship also remove that entire mountain of stress at that time as well?

I mean if you're opperating well enough under the mountain of stress but then some how it suddenly "breaks through" enough to cause damage then all of that old stress should be gone as it had to pay for that drawback.

If you think a ship that has 5+ stress tokens should be rolling for damage every time it gets another without doing anything to remove the stress then you are really piling on more suffering onto any pain the Stress already brings. If you're going to allow stress to continue to pile on and punish a ship every time it gains more stress then maybe a ship's attack rating should drop after every (2, 3, or what ever but not too many) attack(s). Same difference.

There are a lot of effects coming out soon that take a stress of an opponent to do there effect. I think this will make people think twice about taking lists that just stack stress for ever.

For all of you who think that the pile of stress should lead to lasting hardship does hitting that lasting hardship also remove that entire mountain of stress at that time as well?

I mean if you're opperating well enough under the mountain of stress but then some how it suddenly "breaks through" enough to cause damage then all of that old stress should be gone as it had to pay for that drawback.

If you think a ship that has 5+ stress tokens should be rolling for damage every time it gets another without doing anything to remove the stress then you are really piling on more suffering onto any pain the Stress already brings. If you're going to allow stress to continue to pile on and punish a ship every time it gains more stress then maybe a ship's attack rating should drop after every (2, 3, or what ever but not too many) attack(s). Same difference.

It should remove or prevent adding the stress that tips it over whatever threshold is set, but should not remove ALL stress. That doesn't make any sense either thematically or mechanically. There is already a built in stress removing mechanic, green maneuvers, and combined with the negatives from first several stress tokens forms a well balanced mechanic. There's no need to alter that balance as it's working well. Only large piles of stress throw things out of whack in some edge cases and so only the effect of stress on the high end should be altered.

When you say piling on more pain, uh... I think you mean any pain at all. At the moment that ship is not suffering at all from its 6th stress token. It's suffering from its 1st one and its 2nd one, but the 6th one is having absolutely no impact on its performance. The whole point is to make taking that 6th token hurt at least somewhat, whether more or less than the first couple is up for debate but there should be at least some negative involved.

As far as it being like lowering attack rating... wow way to try to strawman an argument and yet still somehow utterly fail. Stress unlike attacking is meant to be a penalty, that's its entire purpose in the game. It's the price you pay for you being able to do nifty things like taking 2 actions, doing a 180, or forcing the opponent to reroll stuff because all of those things are generally better than what you'd do otherwise. Primary attacks are supremely ordinary, every ship can do it to some degree and differences in ability to do so are factored into points cost, so there is no need for a price to be paid when performing attacks. Hence there's no real equivalence between the two concepts.

Stress unlike attacking is meant to be a penalty, that's its entire purpose in the game.

So are let's say obstacles. Should we nerf Dash or at least ban Dash players for bringing debris while we're at it too ?

I'm late to the thread.

Stress Interval: Every ship would have one.

Divide your PS/2 and round DOWN (Minimum of 1). Every time you hit that interval of stress suffer one face down damage card immediately, then remove 1 stress.

Coming from a fighter pilot training school. Believe me 1G is way different than 5G, I sure in space it would be the same. All kinds of things happen when you plane in in a hard G turn. Black Outs to the pilot, radar fails to work, ailerons are harder to pull, etc. When you first start flying a 1G turn nearly makes you pass out, after flying a while and practicing 5G turns can be held, but require precise flying and even then you have major issues with reaction timing.

EXAMPLE:

So a PS9 would need 4 stress to suffer face down damage card and remove 1 stress.

This way you are allowing higher pilot skill pilots to fight stress better than low pilot skill pilots.

Stress unlike attacking is meant to be a penalty, that's its entire purpose in the game.

So are let's say obstacles. Should we nerf Dash or at least ban Dash players for bringing debris while we're at it too ?

Dash pays for his ability with points, he allows you to ignore the obstacle penalty but you pay the price of having less/worse other ships. If you want to make the argument that the stress mechanic is fine but that Zuckuss is undercosted points wise then I think that's perfectly valid. I'd still disagree with you as I think just altering that one card is simply treating the worst example of the symptom rather than fixing the core problem itself. It would also be problematic to enact since FFG to date has never directly changed a cards cost.

Also somewhat ironic example as a ship with a huge pile of stress basically gets Dash's ability to ignore debris for free since the extra stress doesn't matter to it...

Stress unlike attacking is meant to be a penalty, that's its entire purpose in the game.

So are let's say obstacles. Should we nerf Dash or at least ban Dash players for bringing debris while we're at it too ?

Dash pays for his ability with points, he allows you to ignore the obstacle penalty but you pay the price of having less/worse other ships. If you want to make the argument that the stress mechanic is fine but that Zuckuss is undercosted points wise then I think that's perfectly valid. I'd still disagree with you as I think just altering that one card is simply treating the worst example of the symptom rather than fixing the core problem itself. It would also be problematic to enact since FFG to date has never directly changed a cards cost.

Also somewhat ironic example as a ship with a huge pile of stress basically gets Dash's ability to ignore debris for free since the extra stress doesn't matter to it...

And those things that can operate to a tolerable level when stressed don't cost a thing? If you want to make a mountain of stress an issue then Tycho is going to be WAY overpriced as are many other things.

Speaking of dengar specifically, dash still gets to arcdodge

Not even manny can pass rolls or boosts through stress

So ignoring debris or stress in general doesnt actually happen, esp if you roll a crit

And i know people like to think dengar is immune to stress despite no longer being able to roll, 2sloop right or 4k. Those things never matter, right? You become vastly more predictable? Perish the thought!