So, my group has finally gotten our Hoth campaign going, and we are now three missions in. Our team is Jyn, Biv, MHD, and Davith, and so far the Rebels have won all the missions (though, our IA took us to the wire on Battle of Hoth and White Noise. We are terrible rebels). As such, we have had a good amount of credits and XP to play with.

I have come to a point where I am unsure what may be the better route to go with Davith (MHD, the other hero I am controlling, is saving for his Bacta Radiator). I was fortunate enough to get him a vibrosword and balanced hilt, which pairs nicely with Falling Leaf. However, I am now at a point where I need to consider his next upgrade, and I am torn between Fell Swoop and the Shrouded Lightsaber as my next purchase. I am fairly certain I want one of those moving into the next story mission, and admittedly, I am leaning towards the lightsaber, as right now, Davith seems decent at putting some damage on Imperials, but cannot seem to seal the deal without a second attack and straining out.

Does anyone have any advice they can share? Any Davith experiences?

Thanks!

Shrouded lightsaber is killer. I almost took down Vader 1 on 1 with a shrouded LS on Davith, and that was like mission 4.

Lightsaber is always a bad option unless you're very credit poor. You'll want your Davith to have a cleaving weapon. Fell Swoop is always a solid option for him if you can keep him hidden and have an attack that can surge often.

Lightsaber is always a bad option unless you're very credit poor. You'll want your Davith to have a cleaving weapon. Fell Swoop is always a solid option for him if you can keep him hidden and have an attack that can surge often.

Now, what if you were to attach the weighted head to the shrouded lightsaber? That would give it plenty of cleave options (for surge, mind you) as well as granting some strong, single target damage the same time.

I used Davith in the Bespin Mini-Campaign.

I focused on items/abilities that made him hard to wound and boy, was he ever!

Items: silk cloak (-2 accuracy or + 1 evade) and High impact guard (exhaust for + 1 block)

Class cards: covert operative (discard hidden for +1 block) , embody the force (+1 block)

Plus I was hidden a lot of the time PLUS the occasional dodge = scared IP player.

In the finale I'm pretty sure the IP player dropped 4 agendas in one round to punch through

I was also surprised with how well Blindside finished off figures. Good way to wipe away troops without spending actions.

I have been eyeballing the cloak as well. Combined with hidden, it makes him very hard to hit with shooting, which is awesome. It is interesting to see that he can be made into a soft tank, though with that build, I would be a little concerned with damage output. For instance, what weapon were you using?

My current plan for XP is:

Falling Leaf (have)
Fell Swoop or Shrouded Lightsaber

Blindside

Covert Operative

Lightsaber is always a bad option unless you're very credit poor. You'll want your Davith to have a cleaving weapon. Fell Swoop is always a solid option for him if you can keep him hidden and have an attack that can surge often.

Now, what if you were to attach the weighted head to the shrouded lightsaber? That would give it plenty of cleave options (for surge, mind you) as well as granting some strong, single target damage the same time.

The weighted head costs as much as vibro knuckles and you're looking at similar damage to the 3 XP + mod light saber. So you're not really saving a lot of credits here but it's at a very high XP cost.

The BD-1 is only 600 credits and has reach, with weighted head it can cleave 3 fairly easily, potentially cleave 5. Cleave 3 + reach is a HUGE difference over the shrouded even with weighed head as that will be killing an officer or trooper 2 squares away.

When you start doing 2 or 3 attacks per round thanks to reach and fell swoop, the BD-1 or vibro knuckles pulls well ahead of the shrouded. When you start doing 4 or 5 attacks per round thanks to Gideon, all those cleaves add up to a ridiculously more effective character.

However if you have the credits to blow and electrostaff comes up...

The silk cloak never really paid off for me. It's a bit annoying for the Imperials as you have it in the back of your mind every time you line up a shot that you might have to be 2 closer, but when I was Imperial against it, it never paid off for them either. I think it's sort of interesting, but not very good.

@Union: That is definitely food for thought. Though, I will admit, while the BD-1 has some solid damage output and reach (I cannot deny reach is fantastic to have), I would be concerned about the surge output and lack of pierce. Granted, that can be mitigated with the balanced hilt and falling leaf, but since both of those require an exhaust, you cannot rely on them beyond a single attack per activation. It also forces me to choose my surges carefully, in that I may or may not be able to use Fell Swoop if I need the limited surge potential to get the damage or cleave off.

The knucklers, I like a bit more. A shame they have no modification slot, though, but at least with the yellow die surges will be a little more reliable. But then, with how surge reliant it is on damage, I am not convinced about the practical use of it.

If I were to pass on the lightsaber, I have to admit, I would likely do so in favour of the electrostaff or ancient lightsaber, but that would then hold back Davith's damage potential until late campaign.

Either way, your feedback is giving me things to think about, so thanks!

If you got the Vibrosword, getting Shrouded Lightsaber is a huge mistake. Vibrosword w/ the pierce 1, balanced hilt & high impact guard is near T3 level dmg and only slightly less than Shrouded Lightsaber. You are much better off saving the xp for Davith's 4xp skills and holding out for Electrostaff or Ancient Lightsaber.

I like both 1 xp skills, both 4xp skills, and the skill that adds a yellow die (in whatever order you want).

If you got the Vibrosword, getting Shrouded Lightsaber is a huge mistake. Vibrosword w/ the pierce 1, balanced hilt & high impact guard is near T3 level dmg and only slightly less than Shrouded Lightsaber. You are much better off saving the xp for Davith's 4xp skills and holding out for Electrostaff or Ancient Lightsaber.

I like both 1 xp skills, both 4xp skills, and the skill that adds a yellow die (in whatever order you want).

I agree on Davith's skill list. The only ability I am not terribly keen on is Force Illusion, but not because it is bad. As to your advice, I have already picked up Falling Leaf (1 strain to add 1 yellow to melee, with exhaust), and Fell Swoop will be purchased at some point in the campaign. Not sure I am feeling Embody the Force, that much. It is nice to add some durability to Davith, or bit extra punch, but I am not sure I am willing to drop all the other abilities a second 4 xp ability would get me.

Regarding the pierce on the vibrosword, I like it and all, but in using Davith, do you not find you are straining out too fast or too often? Between straining for Falling Leaf and then a pierce, and often needing to strain to move into attack position (for those double attack activation turns), I have found that regaining a strain per attack is not quite enough. Is that just me?

For instance, what weapon were you using?

I lucked out and purchased the vibro-ax pretty early and eventually got the electrostaff for the finale.

I think Davith shines best when he is sneaking around the map, taking out the odd figure here and there, and focusing on objectives.

I personally don’t think you have to be concerned with being so offensive, especially with Biv and Jyn.

My thought was that with the skill that removes a strain when you hide. And if you use the hide surge to re-hide, it would give consistent extra surge.

Even if you dont use the extra pierce, Vibrosword w/ hilt & guard is still solid and will easily hold you over till tier 3.

The main bonus of shouded lightsaber is to get an early T3 weapon, but you will be stronger in the late game if you skip it. And since Vibrosword is a really good weapon, I think it makes the choice easy.

My thought was that with the skill that removes a strain when you hide. And if you use the hide surge to re-hide, it would give consistent extra surge.

Even if you dont use the extra pierce, Vibrosword w/ hilt & guard is still solid and will easily hold you over till tier 3.

The main bonus of shouded lightsaber is to get an early T3 weapon, but you will be stronger in the late game if you skip it. And since Vibrosword is a really good weapon, I think it makes the choice easy.

It had completely slipped my mind that one of his abilities was the strain removal upon hide. That does mitigate strain build up nicely, especially if I am able to attack consistently as well.

There have been some good thoughts here, and I will definitely be thinking about the options, now. Thanks!

If you got the Vibrosword, getting Shrouded Lightsaber is a huge mistake. Vibrosword w/ the pierce 1, balanced hilt & high impact guard is near T3 level dmg and only slightly less than Shrouded Lightsaber. You are much better off saving the xp for Davith's 4xp skills and holding out for Electrostaff or Ancient Lightsaber.

I like both 1 xp skills, both 4xp skills, and the skill that adds a yellow die (in whatever order you want).

I agree on Davith's skill list. The only ability I am not terribly keen on is Force Illusion, but not because it is bad. As to your advice, I have already picked up Falling Leaf (1 strain to add 1 yellow to melee, with exhaust), and Fell Swoop will be purchased at some point in the campaign. Not sure I am feeling Embody the Force, that much. It is nice to add some durability to Davith, or bit extra punch, but I am not sure I am willing to drop all the other abilities a second 4 xp ability would get me.

Regarding the pierce on the vibrosword, I like it and all, but in using Davith, do you not find you are straining out too fast or too often? Between straining for Falling Leaf and then a pierce, and often needing to strain to move into attack position (for those double attack activation turns), I have found that regaining a strain per attack is not quite enough. Is that just me?

It seems everyone is not so keen on Force Illusion. I wonder why? It's true that all his abilities are powerful, but so is Force Illusion in my opinion. Most people merely regard it as taking a strain and providing a surge for an ally. But how different is it, if you take a strain and prevent a ranged attack from connecting? It's a "while" ability, so you can bide your time and see if an attack would connect with 2 (or 1) less accuracy. If so, you prevent a whole attack for 1 strain and provide an on demand surge for your fellow player. If not, you still can decide to to spent 1 strain or not. Even if the imperial figure has the option to increase accuracy and you still decide to make the defender hidden, the IP is forced to use a surge on accuracy instead of a possible other powerful surge ability. To me, this sounds as a win as well.

Tho, that said, Davith has so many powerful abilities that cause this ability look a little less appealing.

I think you nailed it on the head with your last comment. Force Illusion is not a bad ability, when looked at in a vacuum. However, when you start comparing it to his other abilities, it begins to show itself as being one of, if not the weakest of his options. Basically, it is a support ability on a character that does not seem built to support in the traditional sense.

Here's a thought about force illusion - if you use it on yourself, it lets you spend your surges from attacking on something other than Hide...

On the other hand, that would negate your basic ability. So that's probably not that great.

The reactiveness is nice. It makes the Empire treat everyone as Hidden (in terms of how close they get) as long as they are in your LOS and you haven't used it. That's pretty powerful, but as you say, pretty supporty. In the right team comp it could make more sense. Maybe in a team that uses Davith as an objective-runner, stunner and clean-up hitter with stuff like Stun Baton, Force Illusion, Blindside, Covert Operative... seems like an interesting idea at least.

Just finished the Bespin Gambit on the weekend and we are all a bit wowed with Davith.

I started him off with falling leaf and elusive agent which left him pretty much permanently hidden and with strain. Note: our IP went with Subversive Tactics and strain eventually became a major issue

I felt the Heirloom Dagger was OK in the first mission and so I saved up for the Shrouded lightsabre. We managed to draw the weighted head and whilst it is not very thematic ("Yeah but on a LIGHTSABRE?!?!). We also pulled up a shock emitter - again not very thematic on a Lightsabre, but Boy! What a combo, especially with Falling Leaf!

I also bought him Blind side and eventually Covert operative (I would have liked to get fell swoop but we only won the first mission - Subversive Tactics - ouch!)

SO on the final mission, Davith was at one point able to take out a Royal Guard (6 health remaining), cleave onto and take out the other Royal guard (2 health remaining), Force speed and blindside an elite ISB agent and then make a second attack to finish him off. That was rather brutal.

However, when I tried to run Davith for mission objectives (12 spaces if double move, double strain step and a force speed, he can move when he wants to) I found he was often hunted down. Like the earlier post, he can be very defensive if you want him to be but surprisingly fragile even when I had a shadow cloak because the IP was always coming into close range, negating the -2 accuracy.

Bottom line, definitely playing Davith again and falling leaf is a must have so I would probably go:

Falling leaf, Blindside, elusive target and then fell swoop if you have a good weapon or shrouded lightsabre if you don't.

Playing Davith again and I've pretty much concluded he's one of the weaker heroes. Not Loku level of bad, but pretty bad.

When Davith becomes wounded he drops to 3 move AND loses his force move making him too slow which also makes Blindside all but useless. Blindside is already fairly hard to set up, meaning many rounds you won't end up using it, so ultimately it's a pretty bad ability and is practically never going to be worth it's points over a campaign.

His lightsaber, is okay for a few levels, but is only going to work out for you if your other heroes in the party have multi-target damage like blast and cleave, i.e. picking up Davith's slack.

Force Illusion, Falling Leaf and Elusive Agent is just a huge amount of XP to not really achieve much. Ultimately it's just banking a surge. In the case of Force Illusion you can trade a strain on Davith for a surge on another character. Falling Leaf's strain usually turns into a surge you use to get rid of a strain, occasionally it might be extra damage. But none of this really achieves a whole lot most of the time unless you're banking that surge for a Fell Swoop, Davith's only really good card.

I think a lot of this problem comes down to the designers thinking hide, and Davith's access to it, is FAR more valuable than it is. This is probably because the -2 accuracy can be useful in skirmish, however in campaign, the -2 accuracy has been utterly worthless for us. It's had absolutely no impact across multiple campaigns, not making a single shot miss. The only time it's been useful has been combined with stealth to completely and totally screw over Biv or Rebel melee who chose weapons with red dice.

Not having had an opportunity to place since early September, I do not have much to add. However, that is an interesting write up, Union. Not sure I agree with all the points you make, but I think the general theme is that it takes a lot to get Davith rolling.

As to the comment about the value of hide, I can see that as a double edged sword. It seems worthless until it is not. I can say this about hide, there have been a couple instances where it has saved Davith from an onslaught from an ewebb and other firing solutions. Mind it, it took some placement on my part, forgoing a second attack to move into a position that was on the cusp of guaranteed range. I am still holding out hope that he plays well, but admittedly, in a shooting game, he does seem somewhat flimsy.

And, yeah, it is a bit of a shock when he becomes injured, as he becomes just so slow. I almost wish he was speed 5, and force speed just allowed him to spend three strain a turn for movement to balance it.

We just finished a campaign with Davith. We realised that he is the hero in the game who suffers most from being wounded. Losing his force speed and becoming spd3 is horrible. Hidden is an OK skill, but it isn't that good. 11-4-4 is a pretty horrible statline as well. Overall verdict is that we weren't impressed at all. I would rate him on par with or slightly better than Loku, which isn't a compliment on any way, shape or form.