Cool, I have no idea how to do that! But, doesn't the assumptions look a bit off? Surely the Ties would spend focus offensively even only 1 eye to hit (since only delta is shooting afterwards, and at this time it should be clear who delta is shooting anyway, so at least all but that guy shoud just spend away). And why would the Ties attack the delta first?

They shoot the delta first to try to take it off the board before it can shoot.

Its pribably also a faulty assumptioncthat all of the fighters will be at the same range. Theres decent odds theyll be split across 2 range bands.

Yes, whoops I meant X7 title (but referred to them as TIE/Ds, which is the general referent for the TIE Defender, but I can see the confusion with the TIE/D title card).

Cool, I have no idea how to do that! But, doesn't the assumptions look a bit off? Surely the Ties would spend focus offensively even only 1 eye to hit (since only delta is shooting afterwards, and at this time it should be clear who delta is shooting anyway, so at least all but that guy shoud just spend away). And why would the Ties attack the delta first?

Yes, good point. But I didn't feel like modeling that metric since it would be incredibly difficult, and in some scenarios it is not clear who the Delta may shoot at. So in some cases where the BSP was left with only BLANK+EYE it kept it's Focus, but I suppose it could have spent it. Nudge the numbers a bit toward the Crack Swarm if you're so inclined. PS: Ryad and Vess spent TL on their two attacks, obviously, rerolling only Blank results, but I assumed that was obvious.

I assumed the TIEs would attack the Delta first because if they can kill it, it is denied return fire (It's the PS1 TIE Defender, right? So if the PS4 BSPs can kill it, it doesn't return fire whereas Ryad or Vess have already shot)

Its pribably also a faulty assumptioncthat all of the fighters will be at the same range. Theres decent odds theyll be split across 2 range bands.

Obviously, of course it's an oversimplification. That's why I list it as an explicit assumption. Without such an assumption, though, you'd need dozens and dozens of models and much more complex decision rules decision rules. No thanks. I also assumed no obstructions to any shots, because it's not easy to number crunch without creating dozens of slightly similar but slightly different models.

I only feel like being so complex with my algorithms.

Ugh, you people ask insanely complex and contextual questions like you want a YES or NO answer, and then you complain that the highly sophisticated models to analyze it aren't realistic and contextual enough. Pick one.

I didnt ask anything !!! .

The ties being at two range bands could push it either way. Howlrunner will be in the back row, so if you target her first, the defenders would be shooting at longer range than half of the ties. If you got for a closer tie first, you dont kill howlrunner but do more damage to other ties, and shoot at shorter range than half of the enemy ships.

I didnt ask anything !!! .

The ties being at two range bands could push it either way. Howlrunner will be in the back row, so if you target her first, the defenders would be shooting at longer range than half of the ties. If you got for a closer tie first, you dont kill howlrunner but do more damage to other ties, and shoot at shorter range than half of the enemy ships.

Yes, all of those possibilities are true.

I actually think kiling the delta first is the wrong choice. Other than howl runner (and maybe another named tie depending on the list, all of your ties shoot after ryad/vess and before the delta. If you kill the delta round one, it doesnt get to shoot, but ryad and vess both shoot before you next round. And tou leave the two most dangerous defenders alive. So it doesnt actually result in you taking or doing less damage probably (outside of a case where the delta kills howlrunner).

I actually think kiling the delta first is the wrong choice. Other than howl runner (and maybe another named tie depending on the list, all of your ties shoot after ryad/vess and before the delta. If you kill the delta round one, it doesnt get to shoot, but ryad and vess both shoot before you next round. And tou leave the two most dangerous defenders alive. So it doesnt actually result in you taking or doing less damage probably (outside of a case where the delta kills howlrunner).

You're right. The swarm should go for Ryad. She's the nastiest end-game fighter, and she is the best enabler of Vessery (the Delta can do it, but not as well due to PS1 and fewer actions).

I actually think kiling the delta first is the wrong choice. Other than howl runner (and maybe another named tie depending on the list, all of your ties shoot after ryad/vess and before the delta. If you kill the delta round one, it doesnt get to shoot, but ryad and vess both shoot before you next round. And tou leave the two most dangerous defenders alive. So it doesnt actually result in you taking or doing less damage probably (outside of a case where the delta kills howlrunner).

Agreed. Killing Ryad would probably be my nr 1 priority. Her ability would just be a little too much to handle with the remaining ties late game, whereas Vessery or deltas 4k is somewhat blockable. With only Delta to target paint (and before ties move) Vess ability loses alot.

Edit: ninjad

I actually think kiling the delta first is the wrong choice. Other than howl runner (and maybe another named tie depending on the list, all of your ties shoot after ryad/vess and before the delta. If you kill the delta round one, it doesnt get to shoot, but ryad and vess both shoot before you next round. And tou leave the two most dangerous defenders alive. So it doesnt actually result in you taking or doing less damage probably (outside of a case where the delta kills howlrunner).

You're right. The swarm should go for Ryad. She's the nastiest end-game fighter, and she is the best enabler of Vessery (the Delta can do it, but not as well due to PS1 and fewer actions).

Yup. If the delta wants to TL for vess after tyad dies, ge doesnt have a focus so he's easier to kill. And the delta or vessery wither one is a far weaker closer than ryad since she can focus/evade/tl every eound while the others lose ut on the tl (or fovus)

Ryad is excellent overall, and pure filth against PS4 or less. Kill her good.

Ryad is excellent overall, and pure filth against PS4 or less. Kill her good.

Triggered!

I think you're okay jousting if you can joust through an asteroid field. This takes a few actions away from the Crack Swarm and gives you some cover for a few shots. I haven't done the hard math for expected outcomes at different ranges, though. My gut says you take the worse end of the deal on the opening turn, but after Howl is dead and Crack Shots are spent, your Defenders can almost run free.

This.

All the people saying you cannot joust a swarm are, frankly, wrong. Although you do have to be smart about how you approach (flanking with one defender and/or bringing your defenders on different approach angles is good advice).

I've done it a few times. Proof is in the logs for the VASSAL league where I flew triple X-7 defenders first against Blairbunke's TIE swarm and then against' Dom Cairo's TIE swarm. And these are really good players who know what they're doing (so I think its safe to say I didn't just fluke it).

The fact is, if you use rocks to limit the swarms options a bit, you can get the positioning you need for your defenders to get their k-turns. Once that happens, the TIEs can't match your firepower/time on target.

Crack shot will kill one of your defenders most likely, but once its spent, you have 2 more defenders whose defenses are extremely difficult for 2 attack dice to get through.

Your statement is wrong. You're saying you have to be smart about jousting and move through the rocks and come in at a flanking position which is exactly the opposite of jousting. So no you can't joust, you have to break up the swarm through the rocks so it can't bring every shot to bear on your ships, which means you are not jousting it.

Depends what you mean by Joust. Typically it means a mutual exchange of fire, although some take it to mean fly blindly at the enemy and K-turn whenever you wouldn't get a shot.

The former requires putting the TIE swarm in a position where a mutual exchange hurts them more than you: breaking them up with an asteroid field for example would do it.

The latter isn't really a good idea for any list.

Your statement is wrong. You're saying you have to be smart about jousting and move through the rocks and come in at a flanking position which is exactly the opposite of jousting. So no you can't joust, you have to break up the swarm through the rocks so it can't bring every shot to bear on your ships, which means you are not jousting it.

Or you could check the logfiles, watch the games I mentioned and see what I'm talking about.

But that's okay, I know not everyone has VASSAL or the time/inclination to watch logfiles, although, I should point out that I didn't say you HAVE to flank or approach through rocks, I just said that those things can be useful (i.e. good advice).

You can actually line your 3 X-7 defenders directly across from a 6 or 7 TIE swarm and joust it and possibly win. But you still have to be smart about it. By that I mean trying to control range, guessing where your opponent wants to put his ships and trying to counter those moves (just like you should always be doing in this game, regardless of how you approach the enemy). Of course, your opponent is probably going to try to be smart about it too and counter your moves, but that's part of what makes the game interesting! But the reason Defenders can possibly win the straight up joust is because of the X-7 title. Even though they lose one defender for sure, its very difficult to kill the remaining 2 defenders using 2 attack die guns without crack shot. Not impossible perhaps, but the defenders have a much easier time getting through the TIE/ln's defenses by comparison.

Not that I'm recommending doing that. While its possible to win such a scenario, its still leaving a lot up to chance. I'd rather take some time in the first few turns of the game being cagey to give my opponent the opportunity to make a positional error on the approach and maybe get an advantage going into the first exchange of shots. That's part of being smart about making the approach too. And even if your opponent is very good and makes no errors, at least you have control over your own ships' approach vectors and can guarantee that they won't get in each other's way and allow you to keep all your options open positionally speaking.

Hopefully that clarifies things....

I fell for the temptation of the Dark side.

I made a last minute change from the Delta to OGP with Palp.

Both lists are great. But I really feel like Palpatine is too good to be without.

I will miss twin-Ion Engine on Vessery though.