I agree with Parravon about FA having no triggers. But i think thats just why it cannot be used twice a turn. Let me explain, the better i can, since english is not my mother language:

FA is an ability you choose to use. It has no triggers, since it has no "when something happens" clause in its text (i dont want this to be a "whats a trigger" discussion. As i said, i agree with Parravon in this, he explained it very well, so go read his post if i have not been clear enough). As it has no triggers, there's nothing simoultaneous between the two copies of FA: one is chosen to resolve first, then the other.

When you want to resolve anything in this game, you have to check if you meet the requirements to do so. The requirement of resolving FA is, as far as i know, being able to perform an attack (and having at least 1 hull left, but that's not the topic here). That's why you cannot use it when you are overlaping an asteroid, or when you have a Disabled Munition token (you see, most times the FAQ clarifications are for a reason, not just a "because i say so" thing). Its simple: if you are able to attack, you can use FA instead. If you are not, you cannot.

So, at this point i think all of you know where i want to go. The sequence will be something like this:

-i have two copies of FA. Want to use them

-i choose one.

-i check if i can resolve FA. i'm able to attack because i have nothing that doesnt let me to. Im not overlapping a rock, i have no stupid Disabled Munition tokens. Who cares about having a valid target? Im not talking about that. Okay, i need one enemy to be at range 1. I meassure that (since i am trying to resolve an ability that requires a certain range, im allowed to do so).

-i pay FA cost: take 1 damage, take 1 ion token.

-i resolve FA ability: my enemy takes 1 damage.

-FA consequences (not cost) come to play: i cant attack anymore in this round.

-i choose the other FA.

-i check if i can resolve the second FA. Theres a game effect that doesnt allow me to attack. I cannot resolve FA, as if i were standing on a rock.

I hope i at least made my point clear.

I agree with Parravon about FA having no triggers. But i think thats just why it cannot be used twice a turn. Let me explain, the better i can, since english is not my mother language:

FA is an ability you choose to use. It has no triggers, since it has no "when something happens" clause in its text (i dont want this to be a "whats a trigger" discussion. As i said, i agree with Parravon in this, he explained it very well, so go read his post if i have not been clear enough). As it has no triggers, there's nothing simoultaneous between the two copies of FA: one is chosen to resolve first, then the other.

When you want to resolve anything in this game, you have to check if you meet the requirements to do so. The requirement of resolving FA is, as far as i know, being able to perform an attack (and having at least 1 hull left, but that's not the topic here). That's why you cannot use it when you are overlaping an asteroid, or when you have a Disabled Munition token (you see, most times the FAQ clarifications are for a reason, not just a "because i say so" thing). Its simple: if you are able to attack, you can use FA instead. If you are not, you cannot.

So, at this point i think all of you know where i want to go. The sequence will be something like this:

-i have two copies of FA. Want to use them

-i choose one.

-i check if i can resolve FA. i'm able to attack because i have nothing that doesnt let me to. Im not overlapping a rock, i have no stupid Disabled Munition tokens. Who cares about having a valid target? Im not talking about that. Okay, i need one enemy to be at range 1. I meassure that (since i am trying to resolve an ability that requires a certain range, im allowed to do so).

-i pay FA cost: take 1 damage, take 1 ion token.

-i resolve FA ability: my enemy takes 1 damage.

-FA consequences (not cost) come to play: i cant attack anymore in this round.

-i choose the other FA.

-i check if i can resolve the second FA. Theres a game effect that doesnt allow me to attack. I cannot resolve FA, as if i were standing on a rock.

I hope i at least made my point clear.

I can see your logic there, but some can and will argue that when you're able to use the first Feedback Array, you can choose to use both of them at the same time. You must then resolve them one at a time, but you have actually "triggered" both of them and the game effect from the first one that could prohibit the second one isn't in effect yet.

This could lead to more interesting dramas. If a ship equipped with two Feedback Arrays decides to use both , and manages to destroy the enemy ship with the first one, should it still apply the ion token and damage from the second one? I think it should, as it has been triggered. If you can equip two, then I think you would have to declare how many you are using when you decide to use it. Because, as you said, the use of the first one creates a game effect that can deny the use of the second one. So you shouldn't be able to use one, see how it goes, and then choose to use the second one. It's either one or both, not one and then we'll see before we try the other one.

I agree with Parravon about FA having no triggers. But i think thats just why it cannot be used twice a turn. Let me explain, the better i can, since english is not my mother language:

FA is an ability you choose to use. It has no triggers, since it has no "when something happens" clause in its text (i dont want this to be a "whats a trigger" discussion. As i said, i agree with Parravon in this, he explained it very well, so go read his post if i have not been clear enough). As it has no triggers, there's nothing simoultaneous between the two copies of FA: one is chosen to resolve first, then the other.

When you want to resolve anything in this game, you have to check if you meet the requirements to do so. The requirement of resolving FA is, as far as i know, being able to perform an attack (and having at least 1 hull left, but that's not the topic here). That's why you cannot use it when you are overlaping an asteroid, or when you have a Disabled Munition token (you see, most times the FAQ clarifications are for a reason, not just a "because i say so" thing). Its simple: if you are able to attack, you can use FA instead. If you are not, you cannot.

So, at this point i think all of you know where i want to go. The sequence will be something like this:

-i have two copies of FA. Want to use them

-i choose one.

-i check if i can resolve FA. i'm able to attack because i have nothing that doesnt let me to. Im not overlapping a rock, i have no stupid Disabled Munition tokens. Who cares about having a valid target? Im not talking about that. Okay, i need one enemy to be at range 1. I meassure that (since i am trying to resolve an ability that requires a certain range, im allowed to do so).

-i pay FA cost: take 1 damage, take 1 ion token.

-i resolve FA ability: my enemy takes 1 damage.

-FA consequences (not cost) come to play: i cant attack anymore in this round.

-i choose the other FA.

-i check if i can resolve the second FA. Theres a game effect that doesnt allow me to attack. I cannot resolve FA, as if i were standing on a rock.

I hope i at least made my point clear.

I can see your logic there, but some can and will argue that when you're able to use the first Feedback Array, you can choose to use both of them at the same time. You must then resolve them one at a time, but you have actually "triggered" both of them and the game effect from the first one that could prohibit the second one isn't in effect yet.

This could lead to more interesting dramas. If a ship equipped with two Feedback Arrays decides to use both , and manages to destroy the enemy ship with the first one, should it still apply the ion token and damage from the second one? I think it should, as it has been triggered. If you can equip two, then I think you would have to declare how many you are using when you decide to use it. Because, as you said, the use of the first one creates a game effect that can deny the use of the second one. So you shouldn't be able to use one, see how it goes, and then choose to use the second one. It's either one or both, not one and then we'll see before we try the other one.

Lets say there are two ships with the same pilot skill. Simultaneous attacks rule applies. They make their attacks in initiative order, and the first uses a tractor beam to barrel roll the other up on an asteroid.

What you are saying is that the second one can argue that, since when the activation of the ship "triggered" he could have shot the first ship, he can now. And we both know he cant.

Although both abilities could "trigger" at the same time, the consequences of the first resolved applies to the second.

And we are asuming we can choose to resolve two abilities at the same time, and i highly doubt it.

It's been a long established precedent that when two ships have abilities that trigger at the same time, initiative determines which ship goes first and that can hamper the second ship's ability, or even nullify it completely. But this is two copies of the same card on the same ship. The timing remains the same and because both have been triggered, both would resolve.

The Simultaneous Attack rule would only apply if one ship has been destroyed before getting it's opportunity to attack. And even in that case, abilities that have been triggered still get resolved. For example, Gunner still triggers before the ship is removed as destroyed. So the way I see it, two copies that trigger at the same time would both be resolved. One copy triggered, would not allow the second to be triggered.

Like I said above, it would depend on whether or not the player triggered one or both, because I don't think you can trigger one after the other, but you can trigger them both at the same time.

"But this is two copies of the same card on the same ship. The timing remains the same and because both have been triggered, both would resolve."

Then again... If I have PTL and Experimental Interface on the same ship, and I decide (for some odd reason) to trigger both of them off of my normal action, I might first resolve PTL (action, stress), then go on to resolve EI... But I can't. Since I'm stressed... Because I was dumb and triggered EI off the initial action, and not the PTL action.

I'm still not sure whether 2 Feedback Arrays is going to be allowed... And I can't find much in the rules to help.

I find Feedback Array's wording to be quite vague.

It's been a long established precedent that when two ships have abilities that trigger at the same time, initiative determines which ship goes first and that can hamper the second ship's ability, or even nullify it completely. But this is two copies of the same card on the same ship. The timing remains the same and because both have been triggered, both would resolve.

The Simultaneous Attack rule would only apply if one ship has been destroyed before getting it's opportunity to attack. And even in that case, abilities that have been triggered still get resolved. For example, Gunner still triggers before the ship is removed as destroyed. So the way I see it, two copies that trigger at the same time would both be resolved. One copy triggered, would not allow the second to be triggered.

Like I said above, it would depend on whether or not the player triggered one or both, because I don't think you can trigger one after the other, but you can trigger them both at the same time.

I cant find where in the rules it says you can choose to activate (again, trigger its not the word) two abilities and resolve them both without the consequences of one affecting the other. Because you cant.

Now i see the simultaneous attack example would not be valid for you, so i come here with another:

Backdraft with Accuracy Corrector. If youre correct you should be able to activate both abilities at the same time, then resolve accuracy corrector, cancel the attack dice and add two hits, and then resolve backdrafts ability and add a critical hit. Yet you cant, because accuracy corrector doesnt allow you to modify attack dice after its use.

Theres no rule that allows you to activate two abilities at the same time allowing you to skip the consequences of one of them. The moment where you have to meet the requirements to do something is when you are resolving it, not when you say you want to resolve it (and other things happen in-between).

I know you want double FA to work, i want it too, but resolving one just doesnt allow the other to do so.

"But this is two copies of the same card on the same ship. The timing remains the same and because both have been triggered, both would resolve."

Then again... If I have PTL and Experimental Interface on the same ship, and I decide (for some odd reason) to trigger both of them off of my normal action, I might first resolve PTL (action, stress), then go on to resolve EI... But I can't. Since I'm stressed... Because I was dumb and triggered EI off the initial action, and not the PTL action.

I'm still not sure whether 2 Feedback Arrays is going to be allowed... And I can't find much in the rules to help.

I find Feedback Array's wording to be quite vague.

I hate to chime in considering how badly I mucked things up earlier. Bullet #6 under Card Abilities says you can equip a ship with multiples of a card. The FAQ entry uses Mercenary Copliot as an example. FA seems to abide by the rules as written. It doesn't require an action to trigger the card's ability. Seems to work unless the devs at FFG have other thoughts.

It's been a long established precedent that when two ships have abilities that trigger at the same time, initiative determines which ship goes first and that can hamper the second ship's ability, or even nullify it completely. But this is two copies of the same card on the same ship. The timing remains the same and because both have been triggered, both would resolve.

The Simultaneous Attack rule would only apply if one ship has been destroyed before getting it's opportunity to attack. And even in that case, abilities that have been triggered still get resolved. For example, Gunner still triggers before the ship is removed as destroyed. So the way I see it, two copies that trigger at the same time would both be resolved. One copy triggered, would not allow the second to be triggered.

Like I said above, it would depend on whether or not the player triggered one or both, because I don't think you can trigger one after the other, but you can trigger them both at the same time.

I cant find where in the rules it says you can choose to activate (again, trigger its not the word) two abilities and resolve them both without the consequences of one affecting the other. Because you cant.

Now i see the simultaneous attack example would not be valid for you, so i come here with another:

Backdraft with Accuracy Corrector. If youre correct you should be able to activate both abilities at the same time, then resolve accuracy corrector, cancel the attack dice and add two hits, and then resolve backdrafts ability and add a critical hit. Yet you cant, because accuracy corrector doesnt allow you to modify attack dice after its use.

Theres no rule that allows you to activate two abilities at the same time allowing you to skip the consequences of one of them. The moment where you have to meet the requirements to do something is when you are resolving it, not when you say you want to resolve it (and other things happen in-between).

I know you want double FA to work, i want it too, but resolving one just doesnt allow the other to do so.

Regarding Accuracy Corrector and Backdraft. AC says you can't modify the dice again this attack. This prevents Backdraft from doing his thing.

Two copies of Feedback Array can be active at the same time, per the rules, as long as you have two hull remaining when they are triggered. You destroy yourself and get two ion tokens but do two damage to the enemy.

There's a thread called Backdraft and Accuracy Corrector on the main page that explains why that combo doesn't work.

It's been a long established precedent that when two ships have abilities that trigger at the same time, initiative determines which ship goes first and that can hamper the second ship's ability, or even nullify it completely. But this is two copies of the same card on the same ship. The timing remains the same and because both have been triggered, both would resolve.

The Simultaneous Attack rule would only apply if one ship has been destroyed before getting it's opportunity to attack. And even in that case, abilities that have been triggered still get resolved. For example, Gunner still triggers before the ship is removed as destroyed. So the way I see it, two copies that trigger at the same time would both be resolved. One copy triggered, would not allow the second to be triggered.

Like I said above, it would depend on whether or not the player triggered one or both, because I don't think you can trigger one after the other, but you can trigger them both at the same time.

I cant find where in the rules it says you can choose to activate (again, trigger its not the word) two abilities and resolve them both without the consequences of one affecting the other. Because you cant.

Now i see the simultaneous attack example would not be valid for you, so i come here with another:

Backdraft with Accuracy Corrector. If youre correct you should be able to activate both abilities at the same time, then resolve accuracy corrector, cancel the attack dice and add two hits, and then resolve backdrafts ability and add a critical hit. Yet you cant, because accuracy corrector doesnt allow you to modify attack dice after its use.

Theres no rule that allows you to activate two abilities at the same time allowing you to skip the consequences of one of them. The moment where you have to meet the requirements to do something is when you are resolving it, not when you say you want to resolve it (and other things happen in-between).

I know you want double FA to work, i want it too, but resolving one just doesnt allow the other to do so.

Willy, if you look in the rules reference guide under Card Abilities bullet #6 explains how you can trigger the same ability twice at the specified time.

Regarding Accuracy Corrector and Backdraft. AC says you can't modify the dice again this attack. This prevents Backdraft from doing his thing.

Two copies of Feedback Array can be active at the same time, per the rules, as long as you have two hull remaining when they are triggered. You destroy yourself and get two ion tokens but do two damage to the enemy.

There's a thread called Backdraft and Accuracy Corrector on the main page that explains why that combo doesn't work.

I know that combo doesnt work. Thats why i wrote it, as an example of two abilities unable to be activated at the same time, because one doesnt allow the other to happen, even if you want to "trigger" them at the same time.

FA has two requirements to be used, as i said: having at least 1 hull to lose and being able to perform attacks. The second one is the one that doesnt allow you to use FA twice, because the first use triggers a consequence that doesnt allow you to perform attacks, so at the moment of using the second FA, you dont meet the requirements.

So, you are absolutely right. You can actually trigger FA twice per turn, no problem with that. As you said, rules allow it. The thing that happens is that the second time you try to resolve it, you are not allowed to because of the requirements of the ability

It's been a long established precedent that when two ships have abilities that trigger at the same time, initiative determines which ship goes first and that can hamper the second ship's ability, or even nullify it completely. But this is two copies of the same card on the same ship. The timing remains the same and because both have been triggered, both would resolve.

The Simultaneous Attack rule would only apply if one ship has been destroyed before getting it's opportunity to attack. And even in that case, abilities that have been triggered still get resolved. For example, Gunner still triggers before the ship is removed as destroyed. So the way I see it, two copies that trigger at the same time would both be resolved. One copy triggered, would not allow the second to be triggered.

Like I said above, it would depend on whether or not the player triggered one or both, because I don't think you can trigger one after the other, but you can trigger them both at the same time.

I cant find where in the rules it says you can choose to activate (again, trigger its not the word) two abilities and resolve them both without the consequences of one affecting the other. Because you cant.

Now i see the simultaneous attack example would not be valid for you, so i come here with another:

Backdraft with Accuracy Corrector. If youre correct you should be able to activate both abilities at the same time, then resolve accuracy corrector, cancel the attack dice and add two hits, and then resolve backdrafts ability and add a critical hit. Yet you cant, because accuracy corrector doesnt allow you to modify attack dice after its use.

Theres no rule that allows you to activate two abilities at the same time allowing you to skip the consequences of one of them. The moment where you have to meet the requirements to do something is when you are resolving it, not when you say you want to resolve it (and other things happen in-between).

I know you want double FA to work, i want it too, but resolving one just doesnt allow the other to do so.

Willy, if you look in the rules reference guide under Card Abilities bullet #6 explains how you can trigger the same ability twice at the specified time.

Regarding Accuracy Corrector and Backdraft. AC says you can't modify the dice again this attack. This prevents Backdraft from doing his thing.

Two copies of Feedback Array can be active at the same time, per the rules, as long as you have two hull remaining when they are triggered. You destroy yourself and get two ion tokens but do two damage to the enemy.

There's a thread called Backdraft and Accuracy Corrector on the main page that explains why that combo doesn't work.

I know that combo doesnt work. Thats why i wrote it, as an example of two abilities unable to be activated at the same time, because one doesnt allow the other to happen, even if you want to "trigger" them at the same time.

FA has two requirements to be used, as i said: having at least 1 hull to lose and being able to perform attacks. The second one is the one that doesnt allow you to use FA twice, because the first use triggers a consequence that doesnt allow you to perform attacks, so at the moment of using the second FA, you dont meet the requirements.

So, you are absolutely right. You can actually trigger FA twice per turn, no problem with that. As you said, rules allow it. The thing that happens is that the second time you try to resolve it, you are not allowed to because of the requirements of the ability

It's the second requirement that needs a little refining. FA isn't an attack. While it won't work if you're on a rock or have the weapons disabled crit, you can use it with blinded pilot or against a ship you are touching. That's two things you normally can't do with an attack. As I mentioned above I think the language on the card was put there to do three things. 1) identifies FA as a non-attack. 2) establishes the time frame for its use. (The active ship during the combat phase). 3) prevents a "double tap". (No attacks that round).

Your ship could be in a position to have no attacks and still use FA. Like an enemy behind you at range 1. The new language in the FAQ was added, I think, because of new pilots and pilot abilities that maybe coming or already exist. For instance Dengar's ability to attack after being shot at and returning fire. If the time frame for its use were left open or not restricted by the "no attacks", I could see someone trying to figure out a way to use it multiple times.

I hate to chime in considering how badly I mucked things up earlier. Bullet #6 under Card Abilities says you can equip a ship with multiples of a card. The FAQ entry uses Mercenary Copliot as an example. FA seems to abide by the rules as written. It doesn't require an action to trigger the card's ability. Seems to work unless the devs at FFG have other thoughts.

My reply was to refute Parravon's supposition that:

"You must then resolve them one at a time, but you have actually "triggered" both of them and the game effect from the first one that could prohibit the second one isn't in effect yet. "

Which is false. Even if I triggered PTL and EI at the same time, the stress from PTL is in effect and will prohibit the use of EI.

Your example of Mercenary Co-pilot isn't a good parallel, since nothing from MC #1 would prevent MC #2 from being used.

I think Willy Jarque has been demonstrating the "wrongness" of Parravon's statement as well with his Accuracy Corrector / Backdraft example.

The real question we need FFG to answer is how Feedback Array's " instead of performing any attacks" is supposed to be interpreted.

People see it one of 2 ways:

• Simply a limitation equivalent to "You must not have performed any attacks this phase, and cannot attack again this phase."

• The previous limitation, but also a cost equivalent to "You may 'spend' your attack to receive one ion token and etc."

It's been a long established precedent that when two ships have abilities that trigger at the same time, initiative determines which ship goes first and that can hamper the second ship's ability, or even nullify it completely. But this is two copies of the same card on the same ship. The timing remains the same and because both have been triggered, both would resolve.

The Simultaneous Attack rule would only apply if one ship has been destroyed before getting it's opportunity to attack. And even in that case, abilities that have been triggered still get resolved. For example, Gunner still triggers before the ship is removed as destroyed. So the way I see it, two copies that trigger at the same time would both be resolved. One copy triggered, would not allow the second to be triggered.

Like I said above, it would depend on whether or not the player triggered one or both, because I don't think you can trigger one after the other, but you can trigger them both at the same time.

I cant find where in the rules it says you can choose to activate (again, trigger its not the word) two abilities and resolve them both without the consequences of one affecting the other. Because you cant.

Now i see the simultaneous attack example would not be valid for you, so i come here with another:

Backdraft with Accuracy Corrector. If youre correct you should be able to activate both abilities at the same time, then resolve accuracy corrector, cancel the attack dice and add two hits, and then resolve backdrafts ability and add a critical hit. Yet you cant, because accuracy corrector doesnt allow you to modify attack dice after its use.

Theres no rule that allows you to activate two abilities at the same time allowing you to skip the consequences of one of them. The moment where you have to meet the requirements to do something is when you are resolving it, not when you say you want to resolve it (and other things happen in-between).

I know you want double FA to work, i want it too, but resolving one just doesnt allow the other to do so.

Willy, if you look in the rules reference guide under Card Abilities bullet #6 explains how you can trigger the same ability twice at the specified time.

Regarding Accuracy Corrector and Backdraft. AC says you can't modify the dice again this attack. This prevents Backdraft from doing his thing.

Two copies of Feedback Array can be active at the same time, per the rules, as long as you have two hull remaining when they are triggered. You destroy yourself and get two ion tokens but do two damage to the enemy.

There's a thread called Backdraft and Accuracy Corrector on the main page that explains why that combo doesn't work.

I know that combo doesnt work. Thats why i wrote it, as an example of two abilities unable to be activated at the same time, because one doesnt allow the other to happen, even if you want to "trigger" them at the same time.

FA has two requirements to be used, as i said: having at least 1 hull to lose and being able to perform attacks. The second one is the one that doesnt allow you to use FA twice, because the first use triggers a consequence that doesnt allow you to perform attacks, so at the moment of using the second FA, you dont meet the requirements.

So, you are absolutely right. You can actually trigger FA twice per turn, no problem with that. As you said, rules allow it. The thing that happens is that the second time you try to resolve it, you are not allowed to because of the requirements of the ability

It's the second requirement that needs a little refining. FA isn't an attack. While it won't work if you're on a rock or have the weapons disabled crit, you can use it with blinded pilot or against a ship you are touching. That's two things you normally can't do with an attack.

Wrong. I said yo must be able to perform an attack. When you are touching other ship you can attack, but you cant target the ship you are touching. When you are blinded, you can attack but you throw 0 dice. The fact that you can target with FA a ship that you cant with your attack is not relevant.

"Instead of performing any attacks", whatever our interpretation is, implies that the ship is able to perform an attack in the first place, and it isnt when it tries to resolve the second FA.

Wrong. I said yo must be able to perform an attack. When you are touching other ship you can attack, but you cant target the ship you are touching. When you are blinded, you can attack but you throw 0 dice. The fact that you can target with FA a ship that you cant with your attack is not relevant.

"Instead of performing any attacks", whatever our interpretation is, implies that the ship is able to perform an attack in the first place, and it isnt when it tries to resolve the second FA.

To me, this seems to be the strongest argument.

Although I am far from convinced either way.

Wrong. I said yo must be able to perform an attack. When you are touching other ship you can attack, but you cant target the ship you are touching. When you are blinded, you can attack but you throw 0 dice. The fact that you can target with FA a ship that you cant with your attack is not relevant.

"Instead of performing any attacks", whatever our interpretation is, implies that the ship is able to perform an attack in the first place, and it isnt when it tries to resolve the second FA.

To me, this seems to be the strongest argument.

Although I am far from convinced either way.

I can see it either way as well. I also see this as something that Frank may answer, but get reversed in a FAQ ruling. It's just that kind of weird. It depends on how a particular developer may see it. The arguments for and against both have valid points. Which one is correct? I think it must be time for FFG to wonder about that. I know I've gone back and forth on this one already.

Just wanted to quickly note for the benefit of all who posted in this thread, we now have an answer on the question in the new FAQ which does indeed state that you can only use one feedback array during the combat phase

Just wanted to quickly note for the benefit of all who posted in this thread, we now have an answer on the question in the new FAQ which does indeed state that you can only use one feedback array during the combat phase

Good to see this one put to bed finally.