This is all making me wonder, again, how Expose ever got through play testing. It's not like it was a weakness that only came to light when new things came out - it was never going to be four points better than a focus.

same reason the PWT did

no one was giving a **** because they didn't know how the game would explode back then

After reading this, I thought that maybe a whole new take could be based off of the "Ambush" command card from IA.

Maybe something like this:

Expose (ept, 4 points)

After you complete a maneuver, if you are in an enemy ship's firing arc, and they are in your firing arc, you may roll one extra attack dice against that ship. If that ship attacks you, you must roll one less defense dice.

Wording needs to be fixed up, but you get the idea.

If you're looking at Expose by itself, sure, focus is mathematically better. But Expose with focus? It has its merits, especially when Zuckuss is just going to make you reroll your greens anyway. Bomber with fleet officer is very nice paired with youngster with Expose.

The dual card option has some merit, but I think even the current Expose still has some uses - I had it on Scum Kath and managed to throw 7 red dice from aux arc at my son's Rexler Brath. Granted only two of those actually came up hits and the little jerk rolled two natural evades...but still 7 red dice!

The dual card option has some merit, but I think even the current Expose still has some uses - I had it on Scum Kath and managed to throw 7 red dice from aux arc at my son's Rexler Brath. Granted only two of those actually came up hits and the little jerk rolled two natural evades...but still 7 red dice!

Ah ha! It's useful for selling dice packs!

The dual card option has some merit, but I think even the current Expose still has some uses - I had it on Scum Kath and managed to throw 7 red dice from aux arc at my son's Rexler Brath. Granted only two of those actually came up hits and the little jerk rolled two natural evades...but still 7 red dice!

I think "current expose" is the key here. With all of the token passing in the game now, among all factions, i think wave 9 Expose is far superior than wave 2 expose, when the math wingers showed how bad it was. I mean, consider this: manaroo with ptl and rec spec alongside Talonbane with Expose. Now Talonbane can throw 6 f+tl dice at ps9 at range 1. That's gonna hurt anything. I mean sure he isn't likely to do so very often, but still. Kaato, Guri, or anything with manaroo has the high probability of having a token when they expose, which ups the damage potential, making Expose at least something to consider. I'm not saying it should be used in every squad, but with all of the token gaining that happens now, it's not as bad as it used to be.

So one side has the expose effect, the other side does nothing, action to flip it?

funny, I made this three months ago.

This is one of those interesting cards that seems to work best on lower PS ships. Unfortunately, those are also often the ships that are least likely to have an EPT slot.

This is all making me wonder, again, how Expose ever got through play testing. It's not like it was a weakness that only came to light when new things came out - it was never going to be four points better than a focus.

When they were play testing the game, they went through so many different versions of the basic mechanics that they didn't quite get the math on how this version of Expose would work with these mechanics and point costings.

The developers have talked about how, back in Wave 1, they didn't quite understand that dice modification would be more powerful than simply rolling more dice. Which makes some amount of sense: I think most of us would rather throw 20 unmodified Red dice than 10 modified Red dice*. Especially if we're attacking a ship with only 3 Green dice.

They also thought that Wedge's PS 9 would be a much bigger deal in Wave 1 than it actually was. And they thought that 3 Red Dice + 2 Green Dice (T-65 X-Wing) would be equal in power to 2 Red dice and 3 Red dice (TIE Advanced).

And you know what? I can kind of see how they got there. Compare these fairly typical Wave 1 squads:

*I haven't actually done the math here. It would be hilarious if it would actually be better to Target Lock and Focus 10 dice than to just roll 20 naked dice.

What about Thane Kyrell with R2-D6 and Expose? Lower PS, so you just wait until the last moment before you pop Expose with his ability. Bam, extra die, still have your Focus or TL, and against non-generics you're probably safe from getting shot with no agility.

Though really it's five points and your astromech slot, when you could do a lot else with him for cheaper. Personally, I'm thinking R7-T1, likely with a tail gunner.

*I haven't actually done the math here. It would be hilarious if it would actually be better to Target Lock and Focus 10 dice than to just roll 20 naked dice.

Statistically:

20 un-mod'ed should yield 10 hit or crit results

10 with TL+F should yield 9.375 hit or crit results

This is all making me wonder, again, how Expose ever got through play testing. It's not like it was a weakness that only came to light when new things came out - it was never going to be four points better than a focus.

When they were play testing the game, they went through so many different versions of the basic mechanics that they didn't quite get the math on how this version of Expose would work with these mechanics and point costings. The developers have talked about how, back in Wave 1, they didn't quite understand that dice modification would be more powerful than simply rolling more dice. Which makes some amount of sense: I think most of us would rather throw 20 unmodified Red dice than 10 modified Red dice*. Especially if we're attacking a ship with only 3 Green dice. They also thought that Wedge's PS 9 would be a much bigger deal in Wave 1 than it actually was. And they thought that 3 Red Dice + 2 Green Dice (T-65 X-Wing) would be equal in power to 2 Red dice and 3 Red dice (TIE Advanced). And you know what? I can kind of see how they got there. Compare these fairly typical Wave 1 squads: Darth Vader (29)Squad Leader (2) Academy Pilot (12) Academy Pilot (12) Academy Pilot (12) Academy Pilot (12) "Howlrunner" (18)Swarm Tactics (2) Total: 99 View in Yet Another Squad Builder Rookie Pilot (21) Rookie Pilot (21) Luke Skywalker (28)R2-D2 (4) Biggs Darklighter (25) Total: 99 View in Yet Another Squad Builder The X-Wings are about 1 point over costed each. Darth Vader is about 3 points over costed. I think the Imperial Squad has an edge in pure efficiency, but the TIE swarm + Darth takes a bit of practice to get good with. So they would play test these ships- a lot- the weaknesses of the TIE Advanced and the X-Wings would cover one another. Today we can see how glaringly obvious the problems are. However! A lot of that comes down to MJ's work and Alex Davies confirming the weaknesses. Until around 18 months ago these forums raged with people saying that the TIE Advanced was fine, and that X-Wings were perfect as they were. All of that, and yes: It was easier to see that Expose was a weak card. But it took several months "in the wild" before people really understood how bad it was. *I haven't actually done the math here. It would be hilarious if it would actually be better to Target Lock and Focus 10 dice than to just roll 20 naked dice.

They thought? But the maths doesn't change. Now I'm normally one who argues against math-wing because non-statline factors, such as dial and actions, are such a huge part of the value of a ship, but here it's pure stats. The maths of die addition vs die modification has always been the same, and is a simple objective truth.

Obviously they made a mistake, and I don't blame them for that - everyone does it and they still made a great game, I'm just curious how they made such a mistake in such an objective aspect of the game.

Expose Expose

Action: Give your ship the "Expose" condition. You may take a free action.

The action and price of expose just isn't worth it along with the penalty. You are paying 4 points to make a ship easier to destroy, so if you read the card carefully it comes down to read: remove your ship from play. Add the total cost of your ship +4 to your opponent's MOV.

I tried it on Vader and I found out that Vader's cost plus the cost of the upgrade was just too much points for what I got.

Would this be worth expose?

Expose

pts 4

EPT

When attacking you may spend [focus] to roll an extra die, if you do lower your agility by 1 (to a minimum of 0) until the end of the round.

Cassian Andor (27)

Expose (4)

Fire-Control System (2)

Rey (2)

Finn (5)

Pivot Wing (0)

Total: 40

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

We may yet find that expose could be quite dangerous. This little combo hinges on the dial of the u-wing, of course, but if you already have focus from Rey and target lock from FCS, why not Expose to get maximum carnage? Finn is just the cherry on top.

This is all making me wonder, again, how Expose ever got through play testing. It's not like it was a weakness that only came to light when new things came out - it was never going to be four points better than a focus.

Simple, it wasn't designed as a power card. It was designed for people who just like to throw a lot of dice.

This is all making me wonder, again, how Expose ever got through play testing. It's not like it was a weakness that only came to light when new things came out - it was never going to be four points better than a focus.

Simple, it wasn't designed as a power card. It was designed for people who just like to throw a lot of dice.

This is probably a good argument, actually. Sometimes the designers don't make everything to be top-tier competitive, because not everybody plays top-tier competitive lists.

This is all making me wonder, again, how Expose ever got through play testing. It's not like it was a weakness that only came to light when new things came out - it was never going to be four points better than a focus.

Simple, it wasn't designed as a power card. It was designed for people who just like to throw a lot of dice.

This is probably a good argument, actually. Sometimes the designers don't make everything to be top-tier competitive, because not everybody plays top-tier competitive lists.

There's "not top tier" and there's "clearly dreadful".

And then there's "expose"

WHat's being implied but not outright stated is the TImmy/Johnny/Spike thing from MTG. Some people literally couldn't care less that Expose is mathematically terrible and worse than a focus action, they just wanna roll a bunch of dice.

And some people want to play the role of a captain of a starship and have the option to make that decision.

And some people want to be mathematically strong.

Expose is not for the last group.

WHat's being implied but not outright stated is the TImmy/Johnny/Spike thing from MTG. Some people literally couldn't care less that Expose is mathematically terrible and worse than a focus action, they just wanna roll a bunch of dice.

And some people want to play the role of a captain of a starship and have the option to make that decision.

And some people want to be mathematically strong.

Expose is not for the last group.

But that argument implies that you couldn't have an option to roll an extra die that was also balanced, which just isn't true.

WHat's being implied but not outright stated is the TImmy/Johnny/Spike thing from MTG. Some people literally couldn't care less that Expose is mathematically terrible and worse than a focus action, they just wanna roll a bunch of dice.

And some people want to play the role of a captain of a starship and have the option to make that decision.

And some people want to be mathematically strong.

Expose is not for the last group.

But that argument implies that you couldn't have an option to roll an extra die that was also balanced, which just isn't true.

Not really. You might infer that.

But my implication was that there is a group of players who are satisfied with unbalanced ones, and the designers don't therefore have to take the risk of making something overpowered to satisfy that group of players, so why take the risk?

WHat's being implied but not outright stated is the TImmy/Johnny/Spike thing from MTG. Some people literally couldn't care less that Expose is mathematically terrible and worse than a focus action, they just wanna roll a bunch of dice.

And some people want to play the role of a captain of a starship and have the option to make that decision.

And some people want to be mathematically strong.

Expose is not for the last group.

But that argument implies that you couldn't have an option to roll an extra die that was also balanced, which just isn't true.

Not really. You might infer that.

But my implication was that there is a group of players who are satisfied with unbalanced ones, and the designers don't therefore have to take the risk of making something overpowered to satisfy that group of players, so why take the risk?

Yeah, if it was a case of it being right on the line and them erring on the side of underpowered rather than overpowered, but that's not the case here: it's nowhere near the line. What I don't see happening is the designers choosing to include something just for people who don't care about balance, indeed without the slightest thought for balance themselves. Why would they do that when they could have something that those people would be happy with AND that people interested in balance would be happy with? I could be wrong, of course, but I get the impression they always *try* to balance everything, and just messed up bigtime with this one.

Expose would be worth it at 0 points

In its current form it literally is worse than a focus action even at 0 points.

It's only worth it at 0 points if you have some free way of using it without spending an action.

While I agree Expose is a really bad card the statement above isn't fully accurate and needs a qualifier.

It's only worse than a focus if you're rolling 3 attack dice or more.

At 2 attack dice it's statistical yield is equal if you assume crits = hits. In reality crits > hits and thus at 2 attack dice with a focus is actually slightly worse than 3 attack dice no modifiers.

At 1 attack dice (HWK-290) Expose is actually better. 1 attack dice + focus is worse than 2 attack dice no modifier.

Expose would be worth it at 0 points

In its current form it literally is worse than a focus action even at 0 points.

It's only worth it at 0 points if you have some free way of using it without spending an action.

While I agree Expose is a really bad card the statement above isn't fully accurate and needs a qualifier.

It's only worse than a focus if you're rolling 3 attack dice or more.

At 2 attack dice it's statistical yield is equal if you assume crits = hits. In reality crits > hits and thus at 2 attack dice with a focus is actually slightly worse than 3 attack dice no modifiers.

At 1 attack dice (HWK-290) Expose is actually better. 1 attack dice + focus is worse than 2 attack dice no modifier.

Even if it's equal to a focus, it's worse, because a focus doesn't cost 4 points, an EPT slot, and cost you 1 AGI, so literally the only case where there's really an argument for it being better is the HWK (assuming that it's a straight choice between focussing and Exposing, and ignoring the opportunity cost of taking Expose as an EPT in the first place, which is HUGE).

Expose has a great idea in the card, but was executed poorly. This game is all about having better tokens than your opponent at times. I hope FFG returns to the idea and creates a new card, such as...

​Aggressive

When attacking with a primary weapon, roll one more attack die. When defending, roll one less (minimum of zero).

4 points

With the ability to perform your actions every round, this is what a 4 point card looks like.