Wouldn't it be cool if every time somebody kicked a penalty kick in football, there was a 1/6 chance of the goalkeeper catching it?

Again, player skill does not equate to random events.

Do you mean that goalkeepers have a skill in guessing which corner the other player is going to shoot at?

To me it seems fairly random, and the success rate is consistent with the assumption.

I **really** disagree but I am also very glad you wrote this. Aside from talking about the article on the next podcast it's certainly a topic we will visit in the future too.

my only issue with dodge is 1/6 is quite a high chance considering how few attacks and turns this game has.

If it was a 1/12 for example (like rolling double 1s) then it would probably suit this game more.

Double 1s is actually a 1/36 chance, not 1/12.

I’m in the “love it and hate it” group.

I mainly agree with the OP, it’s better to laugh at it when you’re on the receiving end than get frustrated at it.

If I’m facing Luke and he rolls nothing but the dodge result the entire game, I’ll be bouncing with glee alongside my opponent.

But I’m a campaign player, and my problems with it are:

- There’s no doubt that the dodge result creates very memorable moments, but it often overshadows good strategy. If I’m investing 3+ hours into a mission and during the postbattle discussion we couldn’t stop talking about how many dodges were rolled/weren’t rolled, the game looses depth. I imagine it feels the same with Skirmish

- Similarly, when facing a good Imperial player, often times the only thing to do is to just start running to objectives praying for dodge results. Doesn’t make for engaging gameplay

- Rebel actions are very precious, so missions shouldn’t put a focus on Imperial figures that use the white defence die (like having to kill Bossk or the White Noise mission that neosmagus mentioned)

These are all minor nitpicks though

I don't have a problem with it, It's a game, so wonky stuff happens, I almost feel bad when they roll the blank and take 9 hits of damage in one shot. (almost)

so I expect to have a few dodges in there, it's not a strategy bc you never know when it's going to happen.

I think as the game evolves, there will be more ways to counter it, I like the damage that can't be stopped as well, like grenades, flamethrowers, etc., so I can't complain when I get stomped on either.

Wouldn't it be cool if every time somebody kicked a field goal in football, there was a 1/6 chance the field goal just knocked it back even when you hit it straight down the middle?

That'd be super hilarious and awesome and make football a much better game.

Wouldn't it be cool if every time somebody kicked a penalty kick in football, there was a 1/6 chance of the goalkeeper catching it?

Again, player skill does not equate to random events.

A better comparison is that for every kick made on goal, there's a 1/6 chance that a wall pops up and blocks the entrance so you had no chance to score, regardless of how well the attacker or the goalie were positioned.

The dodge isn't a random event, it represents the character's skill at avoiding attacks, just like the different types of attack dice represent their skill at making attacks (and different weapons, of course). Going with the football analogy, isn't the player in IA more like the coach? They might pick a goalie who's not exceptional but is dependable and consistent, or they might pick a goalie who's sometimes amazing but has bad days too. That's the strategy and squad building, but the dice are there because people aren't always able to perform in the exact same way.

It's very psychological. The dodge on the white die doesn't represent +1000 block or anything like that - it usually represents 3-6 blocks. If you don't throw big attacks at the white die, you can keep the dodge result to a 3-4 block equivalent, which is quite reasonable. There are times when rolling a 3-block on the black die has the same effect (or reduces the damage to 1) and with the same probability.

Can we drop the football/soccer/rugby/hockey/tennis/cricket/water-skiing analogies already? They're getting really tiresome and none have had any sense in them so far.

As to the topic of the dodge result. Imperial Assault is a game heavy on dice rolls. Dice rolls are random. You can get an extremely good outcome (like rolling six damage and two surges vs. a blank) or an extremely bad outcome (like rolling two surges against a evade enacted by Leia) and anything in between. It'll happen and you'll either be happy or bummed out with your luck.

The dodge result is only a scapegoat for the fact that the game has a random element in it, since the X is simply the most spectacular way randomness can occur in the game.

I have lost track of the time a triple block on a black die blocked all of my damage or otherwise made my attack functionally a wasted effort. I can guarantee it's more common than a dodge. And yet there's no popular movement declaring that triple blocks are breaking the game.

The X simply has bad PR due to cognitive biases.

I **really** disagree but I am also very glad you wrote this. Aside from talking about the article on the next podcast it's certainly a topic we will visit in the future too.

Haha thanks. I knew this was going to be a very controversial topic (that's why I tossed in the picture of Greedo shooting first ). I new this would generate a lot of discussion so mission accomplished I guess.

What would people propose for the "white die" characters aside from a dodge? Thematically they're shiftier / harder to hit, so the possibility of an attack missing / being dodged makes sense.

I get the frustration of losing "because" of a dodge (more on that in a moment) and I've had moments in tournaments where I've rolled a few dodges at key points and my victory has felt more hollow than I'd like

But it's all part of a game that involves dice rolls. Moreover, I would wager that during the course of a campaign mission or a skirmish, there are events that are equivalently (or more!) unlikely that happen with close to the same frequency (or greater!) as a dodge, but they just feel less dramatic. Like when that focused attack obliterates someone, when that white die comes up empty, when you get the exact right amount of surge, etc.

And in any game like this, it's difficult to pin down a win or a loss to one dice roll, no matter how dramatic. Events lead to and follow those events, and they have just as much impact on the game as the dodge.

I’m in the “love it and hate it” group.

I mainly agree with the OP, it’s better to laugh at it when you’re on the receiving end than get frustrated at it.

If I’m facing Luke and he rolls nothing but the dodge result the entire game, I’ll be bouncing with glee alongside my opponent.

But I’m a campaign player, and my problems with it are:

- There’s no doubt that the dodge result creates very memorable moments, but it often overshadows good strategy. If I’m investing 3+ hours into a mission and during the postbattle discussion we couldn’t stop talking about how many dodges were rolled/weren’t rolled, the game looses depth. I imagine it feels the same with Skirmish

- Similarly, when facing a good Imperial player, often times the only thing to do is to just start running to objectives praying for dodge results. Doesn’t make for engaging gameplay

- Rebel actions are very precious, so missions shouldn’t put a focus on Imperial figures that use the white defence die (like having to kill Bossk or the White Noise mission that neosmagus mentioned)

These are all minor nitpicks though

In the campaign though, you have up to 4 heroes working together, and the chances of there being NO area of affect abilities, or secondary damage, is low. Or rolling dodges against every attack that comes through... Like with my example, it was the Officer's reroll ability that really saved him so long, after a couple rounds I looked at Verena's player and said "Seriously? Kill the hired gun, and use his attack against the officer!" And that worked, he went down immediately. And even so, the mission was to interfere with the Imperials and keep the officers from the terminals, and they managed that. If it wasn't for the lucky dodge rolls, the officer wouldn't even have gotten to the first terminal, and he died before he could activate it, so the win was pretty easy for the Rebels, so I don't have an issue with dodge.

Thematically, the dodge is so important, especially when you see it on so many Rebels who live by the skin of their teeth.

Gameplay-wise, it is important so that min-maxers are not the only winners.

Emotionally, it is an absolutely wonderful element as this article explains.

I don't think it's too strong or overdone, and there are counters to it. I primarily play Imperials, but in the one single Rebel mini-campaign I played I NEEDED the dodge. Over and over, I begged for the dodge. Vader slammed 8 damage on me and I FINALLY dodged.

Only to have the Imperial player drop Pinpoint Accuracy on me.

Let's also not forget that the Dodge is a very visceral moment of "That's where I lost a game" but I'd wager that's merely because it's much easier to point to - it's a crutch to lean on.

In all of those instances, there's probably several that were ultimately lost by that die result, but equally influenced by the other die rolls/deployment/take initiative/some other command card/any other of the thousands of decisions made by both players over the course of any given game.

Do we flip the table every time someone rolls triple block and lives when they should have died?

I've also had just as many blanks and things going 'poof' from rolling a blank on the white die so...?

Can we drop the football/soccer/rugby/hockey/tennis/cricket/water-skiing analogies already? They're getting really tiresome and none have had any sense in them so far.

Sorry to disagree, but they totally fit! It's like in Quiddich when the chasers throw the quaffle toward the goal, and the white die gives the keeper a 1 in 6 chance to block it completely. Of course, if he doesn't block it completely, that means the shot might score a block and an evade, which is equivalent to a glancing blow off of the keeper, or maybe the shot achieves just a lowly evade, which would be like a near miss. Of course, the result of this might be the keeper's death (very rough sport, Quiddich!), or potentially a loss of a surge ability for the chaser, depending on how grandly the keeper missed the shot (i.e. when the defender doesn't roll a dodge so that the attack misses).

So, pretty straightforward really... :-)

-ryanjamal

I've gone back and forth on the x-man. In one of my earliest tournaments I had the unfortunate experience of my foe rolling 9 x-men on 12 attacks. Needless to say I lost that fight. I was very frustrated and got very very close to giving up the game that day. I felt like many of those that this article is written for.

Slowly it turned around. I started making builds that mitigated the x-man, and for a long while I learned to love it. Yes it comes up, yes if you get really lucky it can turn the whole game around. But it is manageable, and when you get it it can feel very rewarding and interesting. Once you've learned to build around it and play around it it becomes one more interesting piece of the puzzle.

But, and this is a big but, it does have some negative consequences in the competitive space. The largest issue I have with it is it is one of the factors that drives high point cost figures out of the meta scene. If I have a figure with 1 attack per turn that costs 1/3 of my total points and its attack is spoiled via x-man it hurts, so much so it can completely remove my chances for a win no matter how good I play otherwise. With a high point cost figure every attack has to count for something. It is one of the reasons trooper lists are so powerful - you spoil a 3pt figure attack its not usually a big deal, you got 2 more coming.

Also it can create situations where the winner is not determined by skill, but rather by chance. One x-man, even if in a clutch moment, while it can be decisive - it is expected and not an issue I'm referring to. More so I'm referring to lucky streaks where one player rolls >50% x-men over the course of a match. A streak like that can break the game and there are really very few mechanics to mitigate that level of failure. I'd like to see some sort of game mechanic that compensates for or punishes lucky x-man streaks.

This is all valid, of course. Again, I would wager that equivalently unlikely events happen just as often, they're just not as obvious as rolling DMX. Those individual events are just less obvious than when your focused Obi Wan gets 7 dmg / 2 surge dumped because X GON GIVE IT TO YA

Inquisitorsz, if you hate the dodge so much try playing Armada, or better yet X wing! Nothing can compare in IA to having your focused Vic 1 Star Destroyer roll all blanks at close range, except maybe rolling 3 crits in X wing to have your opponent roll 3 dodges (maybe)!

Dice are fickle. You learn to live with it.

I don't hate it. I just don't think it's properly balanced and in some ways it's a bit too powerful. I've played dice games all my life, I have no problem with random chance.

But that doesn't mean that I don't recognize when something is frustrating, not fun or a bit too strong.

Just last night, my RGC dodged a massive Bossk attack. He rolled something like 6 natural damage, +2 built in, +1 from Primary target +a surge.

The best possible (non X) defense roll would have still resulted in 5 dmg. The worst would have been 8 damage. That's a bloody solid attack.

I accept it's part of the game, and it certainly has it's place. This time it worked in my favor, but I'm not sure how anyone can consider that fun, or balanced.

It wasn't a "ha that's was cool" moment. It was a "**** I'm really sorry about that" moment.

BTW, lets stop comparing it to the black dice. It's not really anywhere near a 3 block. Yes they can both result in zero damage (so can 1 block or a bad attack roll)... but no one complains about a 2-3 dmg trooper attacking being dodged. The frustration comes from situations like the RGC example above.

You need to drop big attacks on units like RGC, or Luke because otherwise you'll never get through them (or at least not quick enough before they destroy your whole list).

3 block can still be pierced through, can still surge extra damage through, can still trigger all the other conditions like stun, weaken etc... (as long as just one dmg gets through) Anyone with a Pierce 3 lightsaber basically completely negates the black dice. Where as Deadly only negates 1/6 of the white dice. I think FFG feels the same way since they released Zillo Technique. I didn't really think the game needed it, but apparently they did.

In any case dodge is really not the same thing as 3 Block.

I wanna see a character with two white dice that can reroll one of the white dice.

Like a white dice version of Vader.

I've gone back and forth on the x-man. In one of my earliest tournaments I had the unfortunate experience of my foe rolling 9 x-men on 12 attacks. Needless to say I lost that fight. I was very frustrated and got very very close to giving up the game that day. I felt like many of those that this article is written for.

Slowly it turned around. I started making builds that mitigated the x-man, and for a long while I learned to love it. Yes it comes up, yes if you get really lucky it can turn the whole game around. But it is manageable, and when you get it it can feel very rewarding and interesting. Once you've learned to build around it and play around it it becomes one more interesting piece of the puzzle.

But, and this is a big but, it does have some negative consequences in the competitive space. The largest issue I have with it is it is one of the factors that drives high point cost figures out of the meta scene. If I have a figure with 1 attack per turn that costs 1/3 of my total points and its attack is spoiled via x-man it hurts, so much so it can completely remove my chances for a win no matter how good I play otherwise. With a high point cost figure every attack has to count for something. It is one of the reasons trooper lists are so powerful - you spoil a 3pt figure attack its not usually a big deal, you got 2 more coming.

Also it can create situations where the winner is not determined by skill, but rather by chance. One x-man, even if in a clutch moment, while it can be decisive - it is expected and not an issue I'm referring to. More so I'm referring to lucky streaks where one player rolls >50% x-men over the course of a match. A streak like that can break the game and there are really very few mechanics to mitigate that level of failure. I'd like to see some sort of game mechanic that compensates for or punishes lucky x-man streaks.

This is all valid, of course. Again, I would wager that equivalently unlikely events happen just as often, they're just not as obvious as rolling DMX. Those individual events are just less obvious than when your focused Obi Wan gets 7 dmg / 2 surge dumped because X GON GIVE IT TO YA

Arf, arf

Yeah, yeah, yeah

(Grr)

Uh, yo'don't get it twisted

This dice S***, is mine

Mother****er, it's a f***ing game

F*** what you rolled

It's what you rollin'

It's what you rollin'

(Roll)

It's what you rollin'

(Roll)

It's what you rollin'

(Roll)

X gonna give it to ya

F*** pierce three, plus 2, and a stun

X gonna deliver to ya

No damage for me, it's in the rules its real

With the non-stop, dice drop and ruthless feels

Go hard throwin' damage at me, but I got such a good white die

That I'll make a mother****er wonder why he even tried

**** right and I'll do it again

'Cuz I am right so I gots to win

Drop dice wit the enemy

But no matter how many cats I drop dice with

I'll dodge who you sendin' me

You mother****ers never wanted nothin' but to kill my Luke

B**** and that's on a casual match

First we gonna PICK A SHOT, then we gonna ROLL

Then we let it DODGE, DON'T LET IT GO

X gonna give it to ya

He gonna give it to ya

X gonna give it to ya

He gonna give it to ya

First we gonna PICK A SHOT, then we gonna ROLL

Then we let it DODGE, DON'T LET IT GO

X gonna give it to ya

He gonna give it to ya

X gonna give it to ya

He gonna give it to ya

I'm so sorry. I don't know why I felt like doing that.

I wanna see a character with two white dice that can reroll one of the white dice.

Like a white dice version of Vader.

If Obi Wan was designed like his Clone Wars version from the old WOTC minis game, he would definately have had double whites with a re-roll.

In that game, after defending, if Kenobi could roll an 11 or better on a d20 he took no damage. Every time. No matter what. So essesntially he had a white die that was 50% dodges.

I wanna see a character with two white dice that can reroll one of the white dice.

Like a white dice version of Vader.

If Obi Wan was designed like his Clone Wars version from the old WOTC minis game, he would definately have had double whites with a re-roll.

In that game, after defending, if Kenobi could roll an 11 or better on a d20 he took no damage. Every time. No matter what. So essesntially he had a white die that was 50% dodges.

R2 next to 3po is almost there

Inquisitorsz, if you hate the dodge so much try playing Armada, or better yet X wing! Nothing can compare in IA to having your focused Vic 1 Star Destroyer roll all blanks at close range, except maybe rolling 3 crits in X wing to have your opponent roll 3 dodges (maybe)!

Dice are fickle. You learn to live with it.

I don't hate it. I just don't think it's properly balanced and in some ways it's a bit too powerful. I've played dice games all my life, I have no problem with random chance.

But that doesn't mean that I don't recognize when something is frustrating, not fun or a bit too strong.

Just last night, my RGC dodged a massive Bossk attack. He rolled something like 6 natural damage, +2 built in, +1 from Primary target +a surge.

The best possible (non X) defense roll would have still resulted in 5 dmg. The worst would have been 8 damage. That's a bloody solid attack.

I accept it's part of the game, and it certainly has it's place. This time it worked in my favor, but I'm not sure how anyone can consider that fun, or balanced.

It wasn't a "ha that's was cool" moment. It was a "**** I'm really sorry about that" moment.

BTW, lets stop comparing it to the black dice. It's not really anywhere near a 3 block. Yes they can both result in zero damage (so can 1 block or a bad attack roll)... but no one complains about a 2-3 dmg trooper attacking being dodged. The frustration comes from situations like the RGC example above.

You need to drop big attacks on units like RGC, or Luke because otherwise you'll never get through them (or at least not quick enough before they destroy your whole list).

3 block can still be pierced through, can still surge extra damage through, can still trigger all the other conditions like stun, weaken etc... (as long as just one dmg gets through) Anyone with a Pierce 3 lightsaber basically completely negates the black dice. Where as Deadly only negates 1/6 of the white dice. I think FFG feels the same way since they released Zillo Technique. I didn't really think the game needed it, but apparently they did.

In any case dodge is really not the same thing as 3 Block.

You have to compare it to the black die, because that's the only other defense die in the game. And you have to compare outcomes, because the potential to dodge an unlimited amount of damage is irrelevant because you can't do an unlimited amount of damage.

White dice do have plenty of counters: deadly, HK rerolls, defense dice removal, direct damage. True, they're not guaranteed, but neither is the dodge roll itself.

You're obviously free to dislike it - whether it's fun or not is a matter of opinion, after all - but I have to disagree with the assertion that it's unfair or too powerful.

I do love my white dies.... so sad i missed out on those frosted tournament ones.

I wanna see a character with two white dice that can reroll one of the white dice.

Like a white dice version of Vader.

In the future, yoda, forsee do I!

Comparing white and black die isn't taking you anywhere because figures (heroes and non-heroes) are balanced around their defense dice. (Including Health and figure cost.)