Since there is no Commisar class is it an acceptable substitue to use the Chaliced Commisar Class IH and just allow the Feared and Respected (i cant remember the actual name but i know thats close) talent to include Imperial Guard as well? and using the new worlds in IH are there statistic table for them? or is there a substitute like Forge = Hive statistics?

I'd say that the Chaliced Commissariat + Schola Progenium background would do fine as a substitute for a Commissars, with some minimal rules and fluff tweaking.

Varnias Tybalt said:

Thats what I did in my game, but didnt change any rules. Just took the word 'Chaliced' off Commissar.

One thing- to meet the fluff, it might be worth considering letting Commissars take 'Fearless' a lot earlier than they get it as part of the Officer Guardsman career. Our Commissar kept failing his Fear checks vs demons (even with FP's), which kinda undermined his credibility.

SJE

ok and about the Characteristic generation since the schola progena doesnt give a table?

ThenDoctor said:

Table 1-6. Inquisitors handbook page 20.

I got ahold of my GM and he said that the Chalised Commisar would be his Commisar class in his campaign (he is running a military campaign) and thank you Bilateralrope i never noticed that table wow *hits palm on face* i feel like a heretic in a redemptionist meeting

SJE said:

Depends a little on where they are in the careerpath though. A commissar between ranks 1-3 isn't likely to be anything else than a cadet during that time so it's not strange if he's a little scared of something so wholly unnatural as daemons (Most of them have Fear 3 after all)...

Technically, the greater bulk of the operatives of the Commissariat are unaware of the existence of daemons. I'm not saying they aren't stern fellows, just that daemons are somewhat outside their normal purview.

Trouble is, in the wargame, Commissars are still supposed to hold the line and be scarier than than the enemy whether the Guard is fleeing because a horde of Orks just shot you or its bunch of demons who've just ripped you apart. Commissars dont ever run is the usual message of the game. (though this becomes funnier if they are leading a unit and encounter a Pariah- their leadership drops through the floor along with all the other Chapter Masters and Living Saints)

SJE

Fearless for "common" Commissars is something too much I think, but for right price it should available for them, as there are some incredibly fanatical fellows in black greatcoats and big hats.

( SPOILERS FROM END OF GREY KNIGHTS NOVEL ) Commissar from Grey Knights novels for example, who WAS driven mad by daemonic presence alongside men he commanded, but he stand his ground and continue fighting. (well, it´s true that he declared all his men heretics and shot them, but the point is he didn´t run or panic.) ( /SPOILERS )

You could stack commisar with Penal legionarre, to get Jaded or fearless early on.

I don't really know what fluff would be.

SJE said:

Which just goes to show that the "fearless" game mechanic for WH40K is obviously tailored to fit with a large scale wargame rather than getting bogged down with in-depth details too much... Like roleplaying games are often supposed to be doing.

SomVone said:

True. Also isn't there a bakground package available for Guardsmen in Inquisitors Handbook that gives the fearless or jaded talent? (not too sure here)

the fluff would be simple from what you wrote in the other post Varnius, the person was a cadet commissar that hadnt graduated fully yet and got put with a penal legion, they tend to see crazy stuff from that and then when your reach rank 3 just say you graduated finally.

Closest thing is Jaded in the commisar alternet rank.

Whoops, I should have noticed that.

ThenDoctor said:

I guess.

Though personally I wouldn't give a Commissar Cadet Fearless or Jaded. They are supposed to be the not-so-experienced juvies of Commissars after all.

Perhaps a modified version of Nerves of Steel just for Commissars? That is, in addition to Pinning, Nerves of Steel works against fear as well, but only for Commissars. You may want to rename this to something like "Commissar's Stoicism" to differentiate it from the normal Nerves of Steel.

I'd take a different route: Use the Cleric path towards Zealot and swap out ecclesiarchy-specific talents and skills to Departmento Munitorum/Imperial Guard ones. This way, you can avoid the clumsy alternative rank (and don't have to think about why Feared & Loathed actually lowers your Command skill) and don't even have to deal with the problem of the expensive fellowship upgrades that hinder both your Command tests and the number of guys under your command, which, combined with Master Orator becoming available at rank 4 rather than 8 as well as Iron Discipline at rank 5 really helps. Fearless will have to wait till rank 7, but until that time, you at least get Unshakeable Faith at rank 5 as well.

Cifer said:

Ask the Commissars serving in Catachan regiments and you'll see why command can be difficult if you wear the notorious peaked cap and black trenchcoat.

I would say Commissa is indeead a Imperial Guardsman alternate career rank, but probably several. I would say there would be one at Rank 1, Rank 3 and Rank 5 or 6. These would be Cadet Commissar, Commissar, and Senior Commissar with Lord Commissar being something for Ascension to cover.

In addition, it would probably be also mixed with several Background Packages as to what kind of Commissar you are and I would even create an elite background package advance for it. Heck, if i had my way there would be at least 20 pages dedicated to Commissars.

Oh hell, Im off to type.

@Varnias

Oh yeah, good old "heroically dieing while in heavy combat with enemy forces" - even when the next enemy is on another continent...

However, Catachans aside I'd still assume that having the cap and the sash would usually help your authority more than hinder it.

Cifer said:

Depends on how you define authority, really, and how you choose to represent it. As I've stated before, I don't necessarily see Command as being as important to a Commissar's duties as Charm (for inspiring the men) and Intimidate (for scaring them; with a +10 bonus for threats at gunpoint, and a +30 bonus for having just demonstrated your willingness to engage in summary justice) - the role of Commissar isn't inherently a leadership one, but more one of discipline and vigilance. And, when it comes down to it, a Command Test to give a reasonable order to men who are officially your subordinates should not be "Challenging", and in many cases should not even require a test.

N0-1_H3r3 said:

Exactly.

That being said, perhaps a Commissar could feasibly grant someone else a bonus to command by his sheer prescence? I mean if your superior officer gives you an order and the evil and scary, Departmento Munitorum sanctioned bully dressed in his peaked cap, black leather coat and red sash is standing in the room looking at you with a cold gaze and an even colder piece of gunmetal in the holster, you might find yourself to be more inclined to listen to REALLY pay attetion to what your superior officer wants you to do.

@N0-1

Depends on how you define authority, really, and how you choose to represent it. As I've stated before, I don't necessarily see Command as being as important to a Commissar's duties as Charm (for inspiring the men) and Intimidate (for scaring them; with a +10 bonus for threats at gunpoint, and a +30 bonus for having just demonstrated your willingness to engage in summary justice) - the role of Commissar isn't inherently a leadership one, but more one of discipline and vigilance. And, when it comes down to it, a Command Test to give a reasonable order to men who are officially your subordinates should not be "Challenging", and in many cases should not even require a test.

I quite agree with you there - however, that still doesn't answer the question of why when you actually need to make a test, your position in the wanna-be Commissariat actually hinders your chances of the men following your orders.

@Varnias

That being said, perhaps a Commissar could feasibly grant someone else a bonus to command by his sheer prescence? I mean if your superior officer gives you an order and the evil and scary, Departmento Munitorum sanctioned bully dressed in his peaked cap, black leather coat and red sash is standing in the room looking at you with a cold gaze and an even colder piece of gunmetal in the holster, you might find yourself to be more inclined to listen to REALLY pay attetion to what your superior officer wants you to do.

I'd certainly consider Intimidate to be a skill that can be used to aid a Command test, whether your own or someone else's.