Death & Insanity

By any2cards, in Mansions of Madness

While playing today, we came across the following:

You draw a face up damage/horror card which results in you suffering damage/horror equal to your health/sanity (both actually occurred in separate situations).

The card you just drew does X, but then says to discard the card, so you no longer have damage/horror equal to your health/sanity.

Are you wounded/insane?

In other words, do you INSTANTLY become wounded/insane when you suffer that damage/horror, or only if you have cards equal to your health/sanity AFTER you execute the text on the card?

No. The card's effect is immediate and the discard puts you at below the level to be wonded/insane. It's probably best to think of the horror effects as FIFO in relation to other events.

Event occurs forcing you to take horror
Take horror

Do card effect

Repeat for all horror cards from event

Evaluate if you are over threshold for insanity and if so take an insane condition

I guess the issue becomes the definition of "suffering" damage or horror. Is it the moment you draw the card, or after you have executed everything on the card? This timing issue is important, due to what the rules have to say (Rules Reference, Pg 7):

If an investigator has suffered Damage—whether faceup or facedown—equal to or exceeding his health, that investigator becomes Wounded.
The above would seem to imply that the moment you draw a card which equals or exceeds your health/horror, you become instantly wounded/insane.

Question submitted to FFG. I will post the answer when I receive it. Thanks to all for their input.

I don't have the rules reference handy, but we had a timing question about taking damage / horror and getting wounded / becoming insane last night, and it was explicitly stated that you first take all the horror / damage cards indicated, resolve all of their effects, and *then* go insane or get wounded.

Edit: Found it (hooray for rules reference .pdf on the product pages for FFG games)

Page 7, first column, "Damage & Horror"

"When an investigator claims a Damage or Horror with the Resolve Immediately trait, or flips one faceup, he immediately resolves the effects of that card, which typically includes flipping the card facedown.

Page 7, second column, "Damage & Horror cont."

"If an effect causes and investigator to suffer Damage in excess of his health, he suffers all damage from that effect before becoming Wounded and discarding his facedown Damage."

(Horror / going Insane has an identical note)

My read of it based on those notes and accounting for the "resolve immediately" factor is that you only 'check' for wounded / insane conditions after resolving all effects of the cards you just took.

Edited by Aaron Foss

And yet, under Wounded within the Damage & Horror section, you have the following:

If an investigator has suffered Damage—whether faceup or facedown—equal to or exceeding his health, that investigator becomes Wounded.
Once again, the issue is the accurate definition of "suffered". If you suffer a damage/horror the moment you draw the card, you are instantly wounded/insane, BEFORE doing ANYTHING with the face up or face down card you received.
If, instead, you don't suffer the damage/horror until AFTER you execute what is on the card, then you may not be wounded/insane, depending on the resolution of the card.
As I said, I have submitted this question, among others, to FFG. I have yet to hear a response.

I am going to break this down based on your question any2cards.

Question 1: Do you "suffer damage" the moment you draw the cards?

Answer: Per RRG, For faceup cards you must immediately resolve the effect. That indicates you do not suffer the damage the moment it is drawn. All effects must be resolved. This is important as some damage/horror cards actually go back to the discard pile through their resolution. So if one last wound/horror would end you, by discarding the card and resolving the effect you actually live for another turn.

Question 2: What if I take 3 damage/horror but I only have one remaining damage/horror remaining?

Answer: Per RRG, " If an effect causes and investigator to suffer Damage in excess of his health, he suffers all damage from that effect before becoming Wounded and discarding his facedown Damage." This also indicates that everything gets resolved prior to becoming wounded.

I have finally received a response from FFG's Kara. Here is her answer:

Message body
Hey Will,

No, you are not Wounded/Insane. Those cards “Resolve Immediately” while the investigator is still suffering Damage/Horror and part of their Resolve Immediately effect is to discard themselves, meaning that after suffering all Damage/Horror, the investigator has not met or exceeded that Health/Sanity and would not become Wounded/Insane.

Thanks for playing,
Kara Centell-Dunk
Game Developer
Fantasy Flight Games