Ok to start this is not to rehash the debate on how virtually worthless the title is mathematically, but to ask;

When you play the title what TLs do you use? And if you say X17s I'm pretty sure an angel loses its wings.

with Dodonna, spinals and xx9's.. also throw sw7's on the blues. Otherwise, spinals and xi7, I"m agnostic. with wave 5 I'd do spinals and the new one.

I don't. I run gunnery team and leading shots. Maybe Raymus if it's a Madine fleet.

Edit: to explain, most of the TLs feel redundant with the title (XI7, H9) or very much luxury upgrades (spinal, QTC). Leading Shots is a way more point efficient way of both upping your defense token lockdown and your damage

If you want to push damage through X-17s are a viable choice, and should not be instantly discarded as a poor one.

my two cents:

if you want a huge gunboat, you will have upgrades that make the mon karren title redundant. intel officer, xi7s, etc vaporize enemy defense tokens. why have mon karren??? especialy since red dice-heavy strategies involve leading shots, so you CANT have sw-7s, meaning you will have accuracies that produce few, if any, results.

what mon karren can do , where the title excells, is creating a cheapish brawler ship.

sw-7s, mon karren, gunnery team. star cruiser for BLUE dice. FULLSTOP. 116 points of getting up close, concentrate fire for blue dice, and blow them to bits. then flank it with something meaningful, like guppies and torpedo frigates. don't use nebulons with it, they cant deal enough damage consistently after it gets destroyed. the key is to force choices. "this aint my big gun, I've got others". just like the 98pt clonisher, only this one doesn't need your bid.

As above.....I run my Mon Karren lean and mean

Star Cruiser, Mon Karren, SW7's and Gunnery Teams.....if it gets into blue range it puts the hurt in!!

Running with a basic MC80 Command with ECM and Madine....hammer and anvil

Sprinkle corvettes, transports and fighters to taste.

If you want to push damage through X-17s are a viable choice, and should not be instantly discarded as a poor one.

The reason XI7s aren't great for Mon Katren is because you are essentially wasting 8 points to have nearly the same effect. Most of the time people will be bracing MK, so that redirect doesn't get spent. Now think about what happens if you don't have Mom Karen and just XI7s. Very nearly the same thing except they get to move 1 Shield. I'm sure there are other ships like Corvettes where they don't get a break and the XO sevens will really help comma except you're also pretty likely to get an accuracy and it's not like those things run ECMs anyway. So what are you really getting with Mom Karen and XI7s? I agree with the above that SW7 is the way to go and I always want to keep my Liberties on the cheap side because they will get burned down from time to time and I want to keep the point mitigation going.

I think XI7s are great in a Mon Karren list, but only if you put them on a ship other than Mon Karren.

I've been using XX-9s and Spinal Armaments with Mon Karren, but I'm going to remove the SA. I wanted to see if it was worth the points, but I'm afraid it's not. When activated last, XX-9s on the MK is usually able to punch through the shields and by turn 4, I'm putting two face-up cards a turn on whatever ship it shoots at.

I may swap over to SW-7s. I've been running Leading Shots, but with only three red dice I think the guaranteed four damage in blue range is worth more.

Le sigh: guys there is a thread already debating x17s and Mon Karren, regardless of how you feel about MK there are only isolated cases where x17 does anything with it. This isn't opinion since some great soul did all the maths for us. It is fact. So as I stated in my OP what TLs do you play and don't say x17s.

If you want to push damage through X-17s are a viable choice, and should not be instantly discarded as a poor one.

So as I stated in my OP what TLs do you play and don't say x17s.

Well, if you want to start censoring people....

If you want to push damage through X-17s are a viable choice, and should not be instantly discarded as a poor one.

Yea, XI7s is still always the right answer.

EVEN IF they are only Redirecting XI7 can still mean +2-3 damage cards per shot, and that's not negligible for a mere 6pt investment.

Of coarse I do!

It's just that I don't need to hear people tell me how great it is to spend 14 points on a extremely situational build. I've heard it I've debated it, I've seen the math. Can we just move on?

The level of facepalm in this thread is amazing to me. It doesn't reach the yavaris fighters can't move ever thread but still

Not if we wan't to get anywhere.

I mean, you've heard it, you've debated it, you've seen the Math.......

... Your mind is made up.

We get that.

You're asking what people are doing, regardless... And you know what. Some of them Havn't Seen it... Havn't Debated it... Havn't Seen or care for the Math... (I'm one for all 3 of those, after all!)

...

Which leads me to believe that the only thing this thread exists to do, is tell people they are wrong when they say XI7s...

In fact, you insinuate it, in the first post...

So beyond gathering opinion, as to what people are doing - Which would include XI7s, what is the intent of the thread?

I mean, its your Thread... More power to you, either way... I'd just like to know

Nope really all I want to know is outside of x17s what TLs are people using on MK. that's really it, but I'm hearing a bunch of x17s soooooo.....

I tried to be funny with it in the OP but I guess that was lost in translation

I think the big reason I like MK is that your opponent will basically never get to Contain or Evade, as the case may be

Nope really all I want to know is outside of x17s what TLs are people using on MK. that's really it, but I'm hearing a bunch of x17s soooooo.....

Awesome. perhaps an OP rephrase, then:

"Outside of XI-7s, what are people using on their Mon Karren? Anything?"

Personally, I'm not using anything. At all.

A Star Cruiser is a 93 point knife-in-the-Kidneys for me... If it gets anything, it gets Mon Karen, and Leading Shots, in that order, as points permit.

Anything else cuts down my main B-Wing attack.

I personally feel ion cannons compliment MK more than TL. Most turbolasers help Mon Karren mitigate tokens, but Mon Karren is already doing that job. For the money, XX9s and Spinal are the only ones I would consider

This title is officially a pain in the neck, with xi7s you still get to use a bit of redirect ( that's two damage on a double arc) and your evade. MK not a chance just the one token please, make your mind up.......? I hate it.

The real use of Xi7 with MK is to lull your mathwing (or is it mathmada?) opponent into either a false sense of security, or get him to play sloppy due to crippling nerdrage.

If you want to push damage through X-17s are a viable choice, and should not be instantly discarded as a poor one.

The reason XI7s aren't great for Mon Katren is because you are essentially wasting 8 points to have nearly the same effect. Most of the time people will be bracing MK, so that redirect doesn't get spent. Now think about what happens if you don't have Mom Karen and just XI7s. Very nearly the same thing except they get to move 1 Shield. I'm sure there are other ships like Corvettes where they don't get a break and the XO sevens will really help comma except you're also pretty likely to get an accuracy and it's not like those things run ECMs anyway. So what are you really getting with Mom Karen and XI7s? I agree with the above that SW7 is the way to go and I always want to keep my Liberties on the cheap side because they will get burned down from time to time and I want to keep the point mitigation going.

I think XI7s are great in a Mon Karren list, but only if you put them on a ship other than Mon Karren.

Or you get no accuracys, and your opponent redirects and soaks 7 pts of damage on 2 shield facings at a crunch moment in the game.

X-17

XX-9

SW-7

You should virtually always be dealing 2 face up damage cards, to even an ISD/MC80.

Dunno about you, but having played as Imperials for the entirety of Wave 1&2, I learned the hard way that you get maybe 1 or 2(if lucky) rounds to use full dice complement, so my Imperial bias, is telling me ensure you can deal the maximum amount of theoretical damage in the fastest way possible.

Which is why I built my MonKarren the way I did in my proposed fleet build. (Tl/IC as above).

Edited to add, but this is my choice, no one else has to use it. There are many ways of building a fleet, and everyone is free to do so as they wish.

I've played vs. a few decked out Mon Karrens (with the XI7s, usually Intel Officer, etc.). I have to say the title was overkill with the XI7s. Typically an Accuracy would get rolled which would usually target the Brace. Then the Intel Officer might do something. Or not, depending. Then I would Redirect for 1. Exactly the same as without the Mon Karren.

In circumstances where no Accuracy results were rolled, the Mon Karren effectively operated as a slightly better Heavy Turbolaser Turrets and I'd spend only the Brace (assuming Intel Officer was napping or not present).

Both opponents weren't thrilled with the title + XI7s either. The best argument I've heard for it is when you really want to fill your turbolaser slots with things that aren't defense token mitigation (usually Spinal Armament+XX9s) and therefore need it through another means. Otherwise, meh.

There's the other argument that you can always SW7s to just go for raw damage output, but at that point you get a very similar effect from Heavy Turbolaser Turrets for far less points.

The opportunity cost with a redundant setup there is you could've taken Endeavor for the Contain instead and had it be more consistently useful. Thus far games with the Liberty on the table have seen it taking a lot of crits once those side/rear shields start vanishing.

Very well put

Edited to add, but this is my choice, no one else has to use it. There are many ways of building a fleet, and everyone is free to do so as they wish.

This is a loyalty test. You will obey the EasternKing's law or you will lose your head. If he is feeling generous, perhaps only a limb.

The black helicopters are watching. And waiting.

Snipafist explained it pretty well, but that has also been my experience. It's so weird how Mon Karren has this strange effect of making people think it's doing a ton of work for them, when really it would be doing the same thing without the title and with an accuracy.