So was looking at the tournament kit cards and beside the new alt art work. It was brought up that the really don't effect games play. The new x17 card are nice in that you dont have to go buy neb b just for the cards.

But was wondering what about cards that offer a new take on the ship or squadron.

Like a luke card that took away escort and gave him rogue, with the proper point adjustments.

Or a fett card that let him cause the dmg before or after his activation.

Or a ship card that gave it a slot it didnt have before.

Of course this could cause a whole lot of issues and people seeking these card out and game balance issue.

This is actually one of the main problems with Attack Wing. They produce a lot of prize-only cards that really affect the game in a poor way overall. They foster a sort of compete-to-be-competitive atmosphere that's resulted in a lot of players getting turned off the game over time, and makes it incredibly hard for new players to break into it. FFGs take on it with alt art cards is actually rather nice, in that they're essentially free cards to help boost your fleet, but they're not something you couldn't pick up anyway. They also tend to feature the less common cards this way (X-wing's last few kit events have had some of the least common cards in the game as prizes, including one previously inaccessible to anyone who didn't want to buy an $80 CR90), which actually helps newer players.

Overall, I don't think we're likely to ever see it happen the way you describe. That method has been tried and found wanting in a few other game systems, and FFGs system is very much one of fostering growth.

Absolutely not in this game I hope. No player should have an advantage over another just because they have a card others do not. It RUINED Attack Wing.

Never gonna happen. That is why FFG kits are great. They are nice to have but not necessary.

Agree with others. Heroclix has convention eclusive pieces that can only be bought at a few majorconventions. About 4 a year. Also these pieces would break the game or be so good you had to buy it off ebay for a small fortune. In order to be competitive.

Absolutely not in this game I hope. No player should have an advantage over another just because they have a card others do not. It RUINED Attack Wing.

-STAW only has a single prize ship (USS Hood) with top tier cards that consistently see the table. All of the rest do not significantly affect the meta.

-FFG did pay to win with XWMG with epic ships. I cannot run a useful TIE Advanced without forking out a significant chunk of change to get the Raider.

And while I understand your sentiment and agree with it, the way you phrased it means that you have issue with any expansions that are not released for free. If I only play rebels, I have to fork out $50 for the ISD to get a copy of HTT

There may be an aspect of "pay to win", as Church14 puts it in the upgrades. But those upgrades are available to everyone... With the Purchase.

FFG will not, however, include anything Rule Changing in their Tournament Kits, unless it is something that is errata'd permanently.

Their very mission statement with Organised Play is to create a consistent tournament and play experience across the world with it.

Buy including anything game changing, they literally go against their mission statement, by creating a two-tier system of "Tournament Players" and "Casual Players", in their capabilities in the game.

FFG Kits will always have alternate art and acrylic product. But it will always be a nice to have, and never a need to have.

The sole Exception to this was the Errata'd Skirmish Cards for Imperial Assault (The Royal Guards and Rebel Saboteurs, I believe), but that is indicative to that game - where They already have a two tier system (Skirmish vs Campaign), and they were fixes to the Skirmish side.

So, in short:

Errata'd things for game-breaking problems are a possibility, but unlikely... And that's really the only scenario.

What you're after, something alternate and different - well, for squadrons, that's being provided for in the Corellian Conflict Campaign... And as it is, they're all Unique, so you only ever have to buy one anyway, even if you're never going to play the Campaign itself.

Having to buy the stuff from the company to have everything is just normal business.

Having to attend exclusive tournaments in order to get the rare thing or pay a fortune on ebay from a 3rd party is bad business, the company doesn't get a cut of the overpriced second-hand sale, and the format is likely to drive away some players who can't make the regular tournaments.

alt-art stuff is cool, but does not affect your game if you can't get them. If you aren't going to tourneys, you can proxy any card in the game for free.

Better off making a Campaign expansion for those things if done. Some non-unique titles would be a good way to adjust ships.

Aye, I'm all for Alt-art and I like the idea of it being a platform for errata'd cards, but not as some sort of super card. I love the idea of event hopping for collectors that need a completion rather than competitive advantage. That later one feels like it would snowball and really ruin that nice balance set in a lot of events. There are little niggling issues I have with some of the tournament prizes, but they're basically nonexistent compared to the still wide-eyed joy I have for these tournaments. That's impressive given two decades of 'Ard Boyz joy murdering conditioning that came before it. I'd hate to see my VSD be significantly underperforming next to my opponents just because they had a friend of a friend who sold them a $150 copy of a Socal exclusive top tier prize card. I'm jealous enough of the people with their plastic VSD alt-arts

Leave it to the campaign/themed expansions. That's a perfect place for 'em.

Is it just us, Vykes, or is the Albertan Scene filled with Bitter, Jaded Old Tournament Vets?

The trick with the Alt Arts is they are inherently limited.

For everything but Store Championships, you can tell exactly how many of those cards Exist in the World...

I mean, you could with Store Champs too, but it would take a lot more research than I'm willing to do...

...

That breeds exclusivity, and if that was connected to in-game ability, then it would begin to be unfair.

As it is, for us collectors who simply cannot travel out of the country they are in (due to factors that are outside of their control), actually getting some things is very difficult, nigh impossible.

However, that will change of FFG impliments the policy that they talked about with the Changing and Splitting of the Tournament Tracks this year...

That is Stream Kits... This was pimped at the time to basically be, While Worlds is Happening, your Retailer wil have a small kit that includes copies of the Worlds Tournament Card in very limited numbers, so you can run a concurrent tournament, or simply have Streaming of the Tournament live in your FLGS...

And not just Worlds, other Major Events, too...

This gives some chances to people, increases the proliferation of them worldwide, which knocks down their price, for something that is cool and ultimately, not neccessary, but driven by a desire to have

It could very well be just us, Dras The Albertan scene does seem to be a decidedly jaded group of Grognards. I mean, I vaguely noticed the shift since after Eye of Terror, and I heard the Australian scene and a few US/UK groups were always pretty great, but I found myself perpetually playing against tournament prep lists for years. Now I still do my fluff bunny 'for funzies' lists in Armada, but they seem to do pretty good!

Post Scriptum: And yeah, I'm hyped about the Stream kits!

What might make for a fun alternative is Early Release cards. At major events allow prize cards that are coming out in the next wave. So at Worlds Sato and Jerjerrod are available, or some upgrade cards. Those cards still will be available to everyone soon, but the winners get a 1-2 month advantage to try out one or two new things, and their opponents get the advantage of facing those cards and figuring out counters. That advantage won't last long though, so better make it count!

It would be awesome, yes. But all it will do is prolong that hateful, wretched time between a Card being useable, and that card being FAQ'd to be used the correct way!

This sort of happens in X-wing after Gencon every year. Most who attended got their hands on one or more of the new wave of ships, months in advance of anyone else. While not official-tournament legal, they do end up seeing lots of play in casual local tournaments and casual games. Enough that the players often have a large advantage when the wave does eventually drop, but not enough that anyone actually complains (beyond the grumbles of "I want that ship now, damnit"). It'd be interesting to see that kind of pre-release happen in Armada, as it is often directly responsible for any Day 0 FAQs on the released ships/cards.

I would really hate limited edition organized play available only unique cards. I am really glad at the way FFG do their organized play swag - really glad. It's useful and desirable, as evidenced by the way the stuff moves on eBay alone, without actually giving someone an advantage in the game. It's enough to get me excited about playing in a tournament, isn't that enough?

I really can't stress enough how much I dislike the idea. If FFG started doing this I would very potentially stop playing except super casual stuff at home where everything can just be proxied anyway.

It would ruin the game. Period.

This sort of happens in X-wing after Gencon every year. Most who attended got their hands on one or more of the new wave of ships, months in advance of anyone else. While not official-tournament legal, they do end up seeing lots of play in casual local tournaments and casual games. Enough that the players often have a large advantage when the wave does eventually drop, but not enough that anyone actually complains (beyond the grumbles of "I want that ship now, damnit"). It'd be interesting to see that kind of pre-release happen in Armada, as it is often directly responsible for any Day 0 FAQs on the released ships/cards.

<ahem> Massing at Sullust

Just say no to the Wiz Kids method. It's messed up every one of their games. Attack Wing really could have been something special. Sadly....

I asked a similar question some months ago and the responses took into account that I just hadn't thought of the limitations you have of using cards as prizes and how that affects things.

Campaigns are a good way of expanding the cardboard choices for the plastic we already have, as you can expand ship titles, ship cards/base inserts and squadrons.

FFG could also do print on demand upgrades to further diversify existing plastic.

Well i see the pitfall now. Here hoping the new campaign will have a few extra cards that haven't been shown

It doesn't contain Ship Cards or Upgrades.

It has new Objectives, and it has a pair of Squadron Cards and Discs (one Unique Squadron, One Named Pilot) for each of the basic Squadron types in the Imperial Squadron pack, and the Rebel Squadron pack... (8 Types, 16 Cards)

There's a lot that hasn't been shown, but thsoe are the "new stuff" it contains, without forgetting new Station Cards, and Dust clouds.

16 Squadrons, I think we have seen about half and 12 more missions of which I think we have 3. Lots of new goodies to look forwards to.

Probably more than anything those 12 missions will be the biggest and most welcome change to the game. For me right now, flotilla=most wanted, and for the blue/yellow missions the choices are rather narrow.

So was looking at the tournament kit cards and beside the new alt art work. It was brought up that the really don't effect games play. The new x17 card are nice in that you dont have to go buy neb b just for the cards.

But was wondering what about cards that offer a new take on the ship or squadron.

Like a luke card that took away escort and gave him rogue, with the proper point adjustments.

Or a fett card that let him cause the dmg before or after his activation.

Or a ship card that gave it a slot it didnt have before.

Of course this could cause a whole lot of issues and people seeking these card out and game balance issue.

Oh God. WizKids did this with Attack Wing. Basically, it grew the community to a massive size and then completely obliterated it within the space of a year. After a few months nobody who hadn't been playing and winning in tournaments since the game launched was able to seriously participate.