Okay so we played our first two sessions of RT a little while ago and one of my players is an Astropath. One of his powers that he took was Sensory Deprivation. Now I didnt think much of it at first but in every single engagement on the ground has run as follows:



The astropath blinds the 6 toughest targets (or all targets if there are 6 or less) and everyone else proceeds to execute the poor blind bad guys who now because they fail their tests vs his willpower of 60 (he did manage to get a willpower of 60 at character generation) fail to notice that they are blind (aka fail to notice the enemies who are now walking up to execute them).

In my second session I had an "epic boss fight where we had a deamon a deamonhost and a final boss guy with powerscythe. (I ran the premade in tattered fates, and yes they manged to create that much madness). It went well as he couldnt affect eaither the deamon or deamon host with his powers and the rest of the players actualy had a tough fight - some thought they were gonna die it was all great and by the end after a few heroic actions and good uses of fate points they were huffing and puffing and the over all person getting ready with his big speach and powerscythe and evilness blah blah blah strides up and ... astropath snaps his fingers and because its a single target... the evil fellow is blind, deaf, cant smell or taste... guess what happens.

Now I understand that I can do things to reduce the effectiveness of it all like sending an army of pariahs against him or lots of deamons or things that cant be affected but pretty quickly the player is gonna go "wait a second this is dumb - i cant do what i do" which is of course unfair to the player (kinda like saying to a space marine "no more powered armour or killing - go play with the children while the adults talk" - its what they do). Naturally the player is also using his exp to buff his WP even more so he is becoming the powerfull little thing.

I have discussed with him the issues and he understands my point of view but obviously has his point of view (its what he does) and we are trying to think of a way to make things a little more ...fair.

If anyone has any suggestions please speak out as I do have a session to run on monday... speaking of I have some planning to do...

Simon

While it shouldn't be too bad if you give them a few battles where it is useless, doing it too often will be a problem. So here are some thoughts to counter it without making it completely useless:

- High WP enemies or enemies with talents to resist psykers. Enemy psykers are a good choice here, expecially since their psychic senses are not blocked so that while they don't know their senses are blocked, they know that someone is using psychic powers against them. There are plenty of powers that can be targeted without needing to see the enemy.

- Give the powerful enemies the talent mental fortress. He can blind them, but he risks damage in return.

- Give the enemies a good reason to know he is a psyker. Then have them ambush the PCs and target the psyker first.

- Build enemies around the blind fighting talent. They might not know why they can't see the PCs, but once they shooting starts they will know that there are some invisible enemies around and shooting an invisible enemy won't be much different to shooting them in the dark.

- Get a group of nearly identical enemies that will be a threat to the party without sensory deprivation. Then look at his willpower bonus and add that many more.

- Make the boss immune to it. But also give the boss some minions that are a threat unless he uses it upon them.

The last three options have an underlying theme: Design a battle so that using sensory deprivation is required to reduce the enemies damage to a manageable level.

... I will be totaly honest here but... I didnt think I would get a good suggestion so fast.

Aw now Im getting all teary eyed. Time for hugs. Any other suggestions people?

Simon

Smoke grenades and turning off the lights will even the odds, make both sides blind.

That said, the PCs are expected to be more powerful than a small squad. They represent elite forces, and it's a nice feeling for a player to power through what would be a challenge for lesser men. Don't over-use the resistant enemies, but maybe send more numbers at them so the power only affects some of the fighters.

As for the kill-team sent against the players, one properly trained Null is a major threat to psychers. Not only are they immune to psychic powers, they reduce the effectiveness of any power used nearby. Invisible to psychic detection, the blind astropath may have an unpleasant sense of irony as he has to rely on his ears to find his attacker. Finally, with no presence the null is apparantly soulless, giving them an aura of terror to those aware of their nature. Properly trained, you have a Culexus assassin.

St. Jimmy said:

I don't think it would stop the astropaths 'vision'

Astropath's "Sight" ignores anything that affects NORMAL sight ie smoke, darkness, cameoline - boy did i forget this one when a cameolined assassin was about to murder them in their sleep and mr astropath looks at him and then Dominates him - the poor guy couldnt even kill himself.

Also in the first post I mentioned that i ran Tattered Fates - I errored and ment to say that I had run The House of Ash from Deciples of the Dark Gods.

On the idea of sending more people then he can affect: he currently can affect 6 enemies at a time. Now while he can only affect 6 enemies at a time he cleverly picks the ones that are the biggest threat to the party (go figure eh?). The rest of the team then quickly targets these poor blind souls and dispatches them in close combat which of course is a totaly easy thing when the guy doesnt see you run up and swing for the face (yes the face). I could send more enemies of course which is fine but then we start getting into the realm of almost small battles which begs the question when does it get to be too many to make sense. They arnt fighting companies of soldiers here and most people like to flee after their mates start falling to the floor mysteriously with faces missing due to invisible chainswords (yes faces).

I did try sending another psyker to battle our beastly astropath but in the end the rogue trader said "oh no a psyker! Astropath do your magiks better!" giving him +10 to his roll... so 85wp to Dominate what i figured (and apparently FFG) to be a "powerful" psyker rocking its 45Wp - you all know what happened here.

I know it sounds like I am trying to kill the astropath here but really Im just trying to have the game be challenging and interesting. Really the players are carving through things at a horrendus rate and I know a few players have started wondering why they should bother rolling dice for combat the way it goes.

Keep thoughts and comments coming boys! (and ladies)

Simon

Send a psyker + 6 threatening mooks. Force him to chose between taking out the psyker or disabling the mooks.

Make your enemies look identical until they start shooting. If your astropath is smart he will try to blind them before then, but by some strange coincidence the one he didn't blind is the most dangerous one

Send them up against a group that makes heavy use of flamers and blind grenades. Better yet, they the blind grenades at their own feet so they will be fighting blind even if he does blind them. Be sure to let him get the first attack so he can waste it by blinding them before they blind themselves.

I will point out that the targets of sensory deprivation are not actualy blind its that the astropath has manipulated the sense (in this case sight) and removed himself and friends from their sense (again sight). Also from a story point of view what kind of person is going to rush at ... nothing and then throw blind grenades at their feet when one of their guys has his face removed by a chainsword (again the face). Making everyone blind fighters again doesnt make a whole lot of sense and then of course is almost like saying "yeah your powers - no". Dont get me wrong im very tempted at times to say that. Big final boss steps up for big evil speech, opens his mouth and.... dominated before plasma pistoled in the back of the head (yes not the face). Im sure fellow gms can understand why i had to resist getting up and walking away but i like to think im a good tolerent gm and no one noticed the subtle tick my face had grown.

Simon

If the Astropath, and by virtue the crew running with him is carving through things, that is how reputations start. Add to the fact that daemons and daemonhosts are not really killed but banished back into the warp it leaves you will plenty of ammunition to use especially since they've got long, long memories.

Daemons and the like will recruit corrupt xenos that are known to have the "From Beyond" trait. Or find an artificial intelligence that is a heretical machine and not bothered by simple issues like someone trying to 'mess with their brain'. Or a sniper with a needle rifle is set up with a toxin to knock the Psyker out and leave the crew to fight things out without him. Clearly you don't throw them all the time, but the key point is this:

You make something your point, the thing you do and if it's the only thing you do, someone else...namely Chaos will put you out of your element. Either you adapt or you die.

It's also worth remembering that this isn't a DnD dungeon crawl, there is no such thing as a level-appropriate encounter. Players find what makes sense for the story, and this is quite often more than they can handle. If the players attract the right sort of attention, this will often be tailored against them. Just don't single out the psycher, if the soldier favours high penetration weapons send things with unnatural toughness. If the RT likes melee, engage him at range. Start slowly, encouraging them to compensate for weaknesses but after a few career advances you shouldn't be pulling punches.

Also remember that combat isn't all of it. Sensory deprivation is useless against a spaceship, a malfunctioning life sustainer, an obstinate bureaucrat or supply-and-demand.

Finally, there is nothing wrong with shooting the psycher first. The explorers aren't unremarkable people dressed identically, least of all an astropath. Instead he has his robes and bonding knife, both of which mark him as a sanctioned psycher and have to be worn at all times. The knife is usually positioned in a place that is easier for other people to get to than him, or in such a way that drawing it will slit his throat. It is only to be drawn if he fears demonic posession, and such is the level of conditioning that psychers will fight attackers unarmed rather than draw the knife. Imperial citizens will recognise these signs, and psychic powers are accompanied with a myriad of special effects, glowing lights or holy fire being traditional.
In short 'Gank The Clothy' has never been more appropriate.

Personally my solution is this. Have every bad guy have a psyker with Sensory Deprivation, and his men trained in blind fighting. After all if it's this good everyone else would be using it. After a combat or 2 the PCs will be begging to nerf the power some how, or will have a solution you can use as well. My player would have been begging me to nerf the power after the 1st night they used it.

Well we played again today. Things didnt go so bad. First I talked with our player and outlined the issues and such and he understood and toned it down. He used it once really well in a nice team work situation and i got a warm fuzzy feeling which may have been heartburn. Albeit we didnt really have much combat going on (yes i know it sounds like we do that alot but funny enough story stuff does happen with my group) so we havent really seen what happens when someone says the wrong thing (its gonna happen soon).

I still think that sensory deprivation is a highly overpowered ability available right from the start that should not have to have games tailored around. Of course i mean no offense to most of your suggestions but really that seems to be the running idea here. Perhaps sitting down and having a talk with the player about the situation is the best course of action assuming one can understand and accept that people are there to have fun not to roll dice and say "i win" (which dont get me wrong i do more then once a session).

Thanks for your assistance, and may the Emperor guide your aim.

Simon

Would I be right in assuming that he only casts it at fettered strength ?

With that much willpower, the +20 he gets for going unfettered isn't worth the risk of phenomena.

This brings up another idea: Use his psy rating, not his willpower bonus, to determine how many targets he can blind. This will force him to weigh up the risk of phenomena against the number of targets he wants to blind.

Simon said:

That set off some warning bells, so I've done some checking, and it is by no means available from the start, and is nowhere near as powerful as your group seems to think it is.

Sensory Deprivation requires the Compel power, which requires Delude. You start with two free powers, and then SD is a 200xp power, so not available until career rank 2.
In adittion, it comes in two versions. A single target is blind, deaf and so forth, but multiple targets only block the Pyscher from one sense.
The power lasts for a few rounds after the psycher stops sustaining it. Until you get Psy Rating 3, you can only sustain 1 power at a time
Finally, it's range is only Psy rating * 10m. If the goon squad is standing that close together, encourage the players to throw grenades.

I think your group has been using the rules wrong. It's an easy mistake to make, a lot of things need clarification and my groyup did similar things with Universal weapon proficiencies not actually being universal.
I let them ret-con any acquisitions that couldn't actually use, and enforced the rules properly from there onwards

It's psyker, not psycher.