So this has been bubbling in my head all day, and I thought I'd share to see if anyone else is interested. Basically, reassigning Clans roles in the empire based on what the RPG mechanics say they are best at. It won't be perfect, and not everything will change and some clans may find themselves without any real thematic space to fill. I welcome any criticism and discussion, just keep in mind I am using exclusively 4th edition material to inform these choices.

So... here we go!!

Right Hand of the Emperor, the military might of the empire goes to.... the Phoenix!!

I know, I know, "but their pacifists, and don't like war, and blah blah blah", but like I said, mechanics only. And going by the mechanics of the game... these guys win by a long shot. When it comes to combat power at the level of armies, high ranking shugenja are where its at. Making earthquakes, typhoons, flash fires, and lets not forget the classic "drop a mountain on them". Mechanically, they have little use for honor, so we don't have to worry about them feeling too bad about fighting in this way. Their bushi are designed to protect their mages, with multiple paths that enhance this capability.

next up: the cultural heart of the empire!

This one was rather tough for me, I kept bouncing around between a few of them, but settled on... The Mantis Clan! While the Crane (and the phoenix, do a lesser degree) still have the clinch on Auteur thanks to their Artisan schools, the mantis have a firm grip on popular culture. They can get anything and get it just about anywhere easily, and have the business acumen to always get the best deal. This may not seem like much, but when every shop nearby is selling what you say is fashionable..

I'm not necessarily as married to this one as the previous, but I think it fits pretty well.

The Underhand of the Emperor!!

Scorpion. Yup. They fit really well right here, no change needed.

Rather than keep making multiple posts, I will likely just edit this one as I get a chance to update it and just comment to that effect below. that way everything is kept together.

But given the extreme power and versatility of high-rank shugenja, won't the Phoenix just end up with every role?

The pacifist nature of the shugenja, and their complex decision-making process, is here to "balance" the fact magic is very powerful indeed.

While mechanically the Phoenix Shugenja are impressive, I would counter that the Dragon would be a better choice to utilize as the Right hand of the Emperor. Their standard Bushi school offers up a decent Armor TN boost, they're resistant to offensive magic while easier to enhance with helpful spells. They end up with a greater number of attacks than most other schools can rise to. The Kitsuki are perfect to ferret out those who are attempting subterfuge against the Imperials in the Courts and can make competent scouts. Their Shugenja while lacking the direct fire power of the mighty Isawa, have a mechanical advantage that may have been overlooked. They can make potions, these can be handed out to others, which can temporarily drastically increase the number of spell effects they can unleash, albeit for a short span of time. The Togashi order are a dangerous bunch if one looks at them purely in mechanical terms. They can fill almost any role needed with the proper tattoo choices, they're Unarmed and Unarmored Specialists which means they will never be unprepared for combat and since we're tossing roleplaying aspects out the window there's not a **** thing stopping them from dropping a Phoenix and Ocean Tattoo on every single Bushi in the clan, which allows them to rise back from the dead and be instantly refreshed.

The pacifist nature of the shugenja, and their complex decision-making process, is here to "balance" the fact magic is very powerful indeed.

And a narrative role as punching bag...

It's funny, until the first beatdown by the Mantis, "nobody had beaten the Phoenix" (subsequent historical inserts made it plain that this was not the case)

So of course the Phoenix never won a war on their own during the entire run of the game under AEG's leadership. Hence why they were slated to win the war with the Unicorn...

But yeah using RPG mechanics? A formation of IR 2 Shiba bushi reducing spell TNs by 5 apiece can form a block of armored beatsticks around a spellcaster who can call all the raises they want...

I would counter that the Dragon would be a better choice to utilize as the Right hand of the Emperor.

Uh... Yeah, Mirumoto "meat grinder", r5-twirling-two-handed-kensai killing machines. Then at r6 cross school to Togashi to gain 2 tattoos. That is in theory of course because rpg wise, it would take eons before 1 samurai can reach that rank.

Realistically, removing the shugenja factor, Lion still is the best Right Hand of the Emperor. It's not just mechanically, but thematically. The Lion Clan is loyal to a fault, they study every aspects of war like tactical maneuvers, formations, terrains, etc. More than any clan I think except maybe for the Unicorn (I really do not know any of their schools, lols).

So I would rather take 3 Matsu r3 to war anytime rather than a cool r5 Mirumoto with r1 Togashi (because the r5 Mirumoto with r1 Togashi would probably be the Clan Champion).

While I am very aware of the unlikely prospect of a Mirumoto making it that far due to Roleplay restrictions and such, the name of the game was mechanics. Counting in Roleplay I completely agree that the Lion are the perfect choice, with maybe the Crane as a good secondary choice.

Master post updated, also responses to things below!

But given the extreme power and versatility of high-rank shugenja, won't the Phoenix just end up with every role?

That could have been a possibility, but I decided against it at the get go, as that's no fun for anyone

The pacifist nature of the shugenja, and their complex decision-making process, is here to "balance" the fact magic is very powerful indeed.

I have heard people say that shugenja are supposed to be pacifists.. but it's really only the Asahina of the Crane Clan. In no fiction I've read, or games I've played have I ever seen any shugenja played as anything nearing pacifism.

While mechanically the Phoenix Shugenja are impressive, I would counter that the Dragon would be a better choice to utilize as the Right hand of the Emperor. Their standard Bushi school offers up a decent Armor TN boost, they're resistant to offensive magic while easier to enhance with helpful spells. They end up with a greater number of attacks than most other schools can rise to. The Kitsuki are perfect to ferret out those who are attempting subterfuge against the Imperials in the Courts and can make competent scouts. Their Shugenja while lacking the direct fire power of the mighty Isawa, have a mechanical advantage that may have been overlooked. They can make potions, these can be handed out to others, which can temporarily drastically increase the number of spell effects they can unleash, albeit for a short span of time. The Togashi order are a dangerous bunch if one looks at them purely in mechanical terms. They can fill almost any role needed with the proper tattoo choices, they're Unarmed and Unarmored Specialists which means they will never be unprepared for combat and since we're tossing roleplaying aspects out the window there's not a **** thing stopping them from dropping a Phoenix and Ocean Tattoo on every single Bushi in the clan, which allows them to rise back from the dead and be instantly refreshed.

I considered this, but one major thing stopped me: I have been told on more than one occasion that the Tattooed Order aren't actually part of the Dragon Clan, but simply an order of Monks that exist solely within Dragon Lands. But I've also been told otherwise, and since the dragon and their quest to do nothing have never been the strongest spoke of my narrative wheel house, I opted to take them out of consideration

Also, in regards to the Lion Clan (who are my favorite, of course) I have something special in mind for them, a place I think they would fit very well.

While mechanically the Phoenix Shugenja are impressive, I would counter that the Dragon would be a better choice to utilize as the Right hand of the Emperor. Their standard Bushi school offers up a decent Armor TN boost, they're resistant to offensive magic while easier to enhance with helpful spells. They end up with a greater number of attacks than most other schools can rise to. The Kitsuki are perfect to ferret out those who are attempting subterfuge against the Imperials in the Courts and can make competent scouts. Their Shugenja while lacking the direct fire power of the mighty Isawa, have a mechanical advantage that may have been overlooked. They can make potions, these can be handed out to others, which can temporarily drastically increase the number of spell effects they can unleash, albeit for a short span of time. The Togashi order are a dangerous bunch if one looks at them purely in mechanical terms. They can fill almost any role needed with the proper tattoo choices, they're Unarmed and Unarmored Specialists which means they will never be unprepared for combat and since we're tossing roleplaying aspects out the window there's not a **** thing stopping them from dropping a Phoenix and Ocean Tattoo on every single Bushi in the clan, which allows them to rise back from the dead and be instantly refreshed.

I considered this, but one major thing stopped me: I have been told on more than one occasion that the Tattooed Order aren't actually part of the Dragon Clan, but simply an order of Monks that exist solely within Dragon Lands.

That is simply not true.

The Mantis as cultural heart of the Empire?

Heh. No.

It's not just about art, it's also about defining the culture. The Mantis are all about flying in the face of cultural mores. Maybe the Lion (a bit harsher, but capable of appreciating art and beauty- their courtier school is even allowed to display open emotion in public, for pete's sake!). But if the Scorpion get to keep their role as Underhand, I must submit that you have left the Crane with precious little to call their own. And the Mantis are possibly the worst fit for cultural standard-bearers you could have chosen- even the Unicorn have more interest in unifying culture!

Moreover,the Mantis have almost ZERO RPG mechanics to do with culture. Their courtiers are swaggering bullies, their shugenja are blasting machines...

Moreover,the Mantis have almost ZERO RPG mechanics to do with culture. Their courtiers are swaggering bullies, their shugenja are blasting machines...

There's the Yoritomo Artisan alternate path, but I assume that's what you mean by "almost" zero.

fair points, perhaps it's my own bias showing through, I considered the Mantis because of their ability to really control the commercial aspects of the setting, much like the Yasuki, but they also have the ability to move goods and take advantage of markets in a much easier way.

There is always the possibility that this particular aspect can't really be modeled purely by the mechanics we have at hand. I mean the Crane are built to make everyone like them, or you feel bad about yourself (doji school and honor loss respectively) and the Scorpion are built to acquire victims and ferret out secrets of others (Bayushi courtier school and Blackmail). No one really has anything that let's them set trends, or sway public opinion in the manner of say, modern advertising companies.

So perhaps going strictly by the rules, this one is kind of up in the air.

But, what do we consider culture? if it's the way we dress, the way we decide to look, the way these things tend to drip into the masses from those we already hold up on a pedestal. At least that's fashion, which is part of culture.

Then there are our collective morals and the shared little rituals that a society has.

And lest we forget the entertainment we choose to share, in rokugan it would be plays, songs, poetry, storytelling. Much like in Modern American we have our TV, Movies, Music.

But outside of morals and ritual behaviors, all of these other things are controlled, or at least influenced by the market. What music gets distributed, what plays local theatre troupes decide to put on, What clothes are available. If you can control how these things get distributed than you have a hand in controlling what gets picked up versus what is considered a flash in the pan with no lasting power.

But like I said, I admit that I have Biases just like everyone else, and I am open to an alternate idea.

That all being said, my eventual plan is to see where all the chips lie after this is done and try and weave a coherent setting out of it. I am ABSOLUTELY sure it won't look like normal rokugan, and I'm sure more than a few of the Clans will have to be shoe horned in after the fact. (like the Lion ;_; )

But that all being said, what are the other IMPORTANT roles that need to be filled in the setting before we start finding things for the other clans to do?

I think you overestimate the role of economics in Rokugani culture... it's as much (if not more) about ideas as at-home production as it is trade. As such, I'd actually give the cultural bit to the Lion, since they can directly speak to their ancestors about acceptable behavior, they have the aforementioned cultural permission to get emotional about the heroism of others, and they set the gold standard for honorable behavior (the jerks!). Even their bushi punch people in the face with their Honor!

As for other roles...

Spiritual center (from a purely mechanical standpoint, this might be a great place for the Mantis, with their piles and piles of different types of shugenja...)

Hadn't thought about that..... that works too. My thought on what to do with the lion was to chop the clan up and make them basically either THE imperial legion schools or have them act as wandering magistrates. Either of these work because of how integral honor is to their schools, and someone with high honor carries the expectation of right action.

But your idea is better, I'll make the edits when I get home.