Loyalty is gained and removed with diplomatic mission cards. Units do not have to be on the planet to keep loyalty unless it is subjugated. Then only one unit must be committed to the planet surface to keep subjugation. Loyalty is gained on a system loyal to the opponent with one loyalty token for everyone of that the opponent has placed in that system, plus one additional to make it loyal to you. So that they are canceled one-for-one to neutralize and then an additional loyalty marker would be placed to gain control of that system.

If this is correct, I ask that this or a more organized easy to understand explanation about loyalty winning and subjugation be added to the official rules thread. During our first couple of play through we spent way to much time and effort trying to find simple explanations about this across several rule books in multiple places of each book.

Loyalty can only be gained by mission cards that state you gain a loyalty....

There can only be one loyalty counter on any given system (that contains the loyalty token outline).

If a system contains a loyalty counter, it is removed if an opponent gains loyalty in that system (therefore leaving it empty).

Systems do not need units to maintain loyalty.

If a system contains imperial units in a rebel loyal system or neutral system, it becomes subjugated as long as there is at least one ground unit in the system.

System Resources can NOT be gained or placed (from/in the system) during build phase IF opponent's units are PRESENT in the system (space OR ground).

Subjugated Systems ARE NOT Loyal Systems for the Imperials. (If Rebel player has loyalty in a subjugated system, it is still counted as loyal.)

You get used to the rules really fast after a few games.

Thanks, this is really helpful.

Loyalty can only be gained by mission cards that state you gain a loyalty....

There can only be one loyalty counter on any given system (that contains the loyalty token outline).

If a system contains a loyalty counter, it is removed if an opponent gains loyalty in that system (therefore leaving it empty).

Systems do not need units to maintain loyalty.

If a system contains imperial units in a rebel loyal system or neutral system, it becomes subjugated as long as there is at least one ground unit in the system.

System Resources can NOT be gained or placed (from/in the system) during build phase IF opponent's units are PRESENT in the system (space OR ground).

Subjugated Systems ARE NOT Loyal Systems for the Imperials. (If Rebel player has loyalty in a subjugated system, it is still counted as loyal.)

You get used to the rules really fast after a few games.

It's not that complicated. I think people get confused when they bring Subjugation into the conversation as subjugation has nothing to do with loyalty. Planets are either loyal empire, neutral or loyal rebels. Gaining loyalty for your side moves the loyalty towards loyalty for your side.

I think the best way to look at it, is imagine Loyalty is a sliding scale with three steps. Rebel Loyal, neutral, Imp Loyal. Each time the Rebs gain loyalty, the slider moves one to their side. Each time the Imps gain loyalty, the slider moves one to their side.

As was previously mentioned, tho, subjugation has nothing to do with loyalty, BUT, it temporarily interferes with it.

At least this works for me, resident, dyslexic, ADD and ADHD suffSQUIRREL!!!!

Hope this helps

Hey Guys,

we were just wondering, if the rebel player can gain loyality in a neutral-subjugated system, so it becomes rebel-loyal subjugated? And in addition to this, do rebel-loyal subjugated system count for missioncards like the one which says: if all systems in a region have a rebel loyalitycounter, gain 1 sympathy (Dont know the english title)?

According to the wording on the cards we answered both questions with yes! Right?

Hey Guys,

we were just wondering, if the rebel player can gain loyality in a neutral-subjugated system, so it becomes rebel-loyal subjugated? And in addition to this, do rebel-loyal subjugated system count for missioncards like the one which says: if all systems in a region have a rebel loyalitycounter, gain 1 sympathy (Dont know the english title)?

According to the wording on the cards we answered both questions with yes! Right?

A planet being subjugation has no effect on it's loyalty. Just on it's production. So yes if a card requires a system to be loyal the system is still loyal if it is subjugated.

Just because a system is being forced to work for the empire doesn't mean the people can't be loyal to the rebellion.

Hey Guys,

we were just wondering, if the rebel player can gain loyality in a neutral-subjugated system, so it becomes rebel-loyal subjugated? And in addition to this, do rebel-loyal subjugated system count for missioncards like the one which says: if all systems in a region have a rebel loyalitycounter, gain 1 sympathy (Dont know the english title)?

According to the wording on the cards we answered both questions with yes! Right?

A planet being subjugation has no effect on it's loyalty. Just on it's production. So yes if a card requires a system to be loyal the system is still loyal if it is subjugated.

Just because a system is being forced to work for the empire doesn't mean the people can't be loyal to the rebellion.

Thx

I feel the way the subjugation marker is placed on top of the loyalty marker is an inelegant solution, there should have been a second "slot" for the subjugation marker.

When a marker is placed on top of another it seems to imply it cancels or suppresses the other one, and to count loyal systems you actually have to look at markers that are obscured by other markers, which makes it seem that subjugated systems are no longer counted as loyal to the rebels.

A small thing, but when you're not completely on top of the rules, you can get this wrong (we did).

I can see that, but if they had a different slot, I feel like people would make mistakes, generating units for the rebels off of subjugated systems.

People make mistakes no matter what you do.

I think it works.

Faction symbols represent loyalty- that makes sense.

Subjugation's symbol is a stormtrooper- because, presumably, it represents stormtroopers on the planet.

Loyalty typically affects production- since subjugation does too, it's important to place it where people will be looking when determining production.

It's really not a complicated rule. I mean, the rulebook probably could have spelled it out a little more clearly, but as a mechanic I think it's fine.

Honestly the biggest reason for the two sided imperial counters is to save money and to make it easier to handle components. Having different tokens for subjugation and influence might have gotten finicky.

I do wonder if a Rebel player has ever lost track of loyal systems for the "Loyalty in 6 Systems" objective, clearly it would be shame on him/her for forgetting to check underneath subjugation markers.

there has been confusion on subjugation changing loyalty. But if you put both symbols on the system I don't see why there wouldn't be other types of confusion regarding production. I feel the whole having subjugation put on top of loyalty is the most elegant solution. and it's not like the rulebook doesn't explain it.

Right, I just figure that by midgame there is so much board clutter that the Rebel player can overlook an elevated subjugation marker over a loyalty marker of a starting system. But generally with so much movement on the board you can see the token underneath.

In retrospect, maybe it would have been beneficial to have the double-sided Imperial loyalty/subjugation tokens be slightly smaller than the Rebel loyalty tokens, to help more easily see where Rebels have loyalty under subjugation- but I guess that's splitting hairs at that point.

For something as big a deal as an objective I imagine you pay pretty close attention to the board and don't just glance at systems.

I only noticed a few days ago how well it works to place the Sabotage marker across the unit resource symbols so that the Empire player remembers he can't build those units from a sabotaged system. Of course, that was the design intent and I just missed it.

Would it also work to place the Subjugation token such that it overlaps the rightmost unit resource symbol so that the Empire player remembers he only has access to the leftmost unit when building units? This would also leave the Rebel loyalty marker exposed if it is present, which might be a good thing.

That's a great idea for production and loyalty bookkeeping, and it will be useful for teaching new players the limited production that comes from subjugated systems.

I only noticed a few days ago how well it works to place the Sabotage marker across the unit resource symbols so that the Empire player remembers he can't build those units from a sabotaged system. Of course, that was the design intent and I just missed it.

Would it also work to place the Subjugation token such that it overlaps the rightmost unit resource symbol so that the Empire player remembers he only has access to the leftmost unit when building units? This would also leave the Rebel loyalty marker exposed if it is present, which might be a good thing.

does that work? Sounds like a great solution.

http://imgur.com/uNZSl5I

The Subjugation token overlaps the Rebel loyalty token while covering up the rightmost unit resource. Might be too sloppy for the most finicky among us, but is functional.

I can't find this anywhere, here is the situation we came across last night. I stumbled across the rebel super early in the game (Turn 2) My superior fleet easily handled defeated his straightest, however my ground forces suffered a defeat. After the battle I played a mission card that gained Imperial loyalty in the Rebel Base system.

We ruled that even though the system was loyal to the Empire, It didn't mean that the Rebels couldn't be hiding right under the Empires Nose and continued to play on.

Did we rule correctly?

On 11/22/2017 at 10:41 AM, JediMatt said:

I can't find this anywhere, here is the situation we came across last night. I stumbled across the rebel super early in the game (Turn 2) My superior fleet easily handled defeated his straightest, however my ground forces suffered a defeat. After the battle I played a mission card that gained Imperial loyalty in the Rebel Base system.

We ruled that even though the system was loyal to the Empire, It didn't mean that the Rebels couldn't be hiding right under the Empires Nose and continued to play on.

Did we rule correctly?

I guess I don't completely understand your question. If the system that has the rebel base in it becomes imperial loyal the base is revealed. It's more like the population outing you to the empire than it is hiding under the empire's nose. But, since you already knew the location of the base gaining loyalty there wouldn't do anything to help you defeat the rebel forces.