Eh, not really. The only thing that would drive me insane would be forcing me to play Crane or Mantis...

Yea I know : it would be too much to handle for your very little mind !

It's true, that much concentrated lame is just more than I can cope with.

You know, maybe Crane will be interesting to play... One can dream.

At this point, I'm not even sure Mantis will even be a playable faction, TBH.

I can't see why it won't be looking like in other competetive LCGs:

1) kitchen table level - 50% loyalty + play whatever you want because playing exactly same deck without any options to solid changes (card pool) shortly becomes boring

2) store level - 40% loyalty, you have to try to show your clan is the best but also look point 1)

3) regional/national/galactic level - 20% loyalty - play best stuff like 80% of other people in the field.

I just suppose that 100% loyalty will be non existent and due to format structure (lcg) everone will have quickly 2-3 of "their favourite clans" to choose best for tourney play.

Unless FFG will modify their OP system to support Clan loyalty (any dedicated store choices dedicated for top of clans). What i personally doubt.

From what I can gather, most L5R players will stick to "their" clan. Often zealously so.

This might be less so with a LCG since there is no rarity issues to be concerned about.

I'm mostly concerned about what the tournament scene is going to look like in general. Will there still be Pac Rim and South American Championships? Will the World Championship still alternate between North America and Europe? The uncertainty has me exceedingly anxious.

Look to the other games for clues on this. Game kits, Store champs, Regionals, Nationals, Worlds. No reason to expect that to change.

At this point, I'm not even sure Mantis will even be a playable faction, TBH.

I don't have any doubt it will be. From the start ? it depends on what FFG's decisions will be on their release strategy.

For me, either FFG releases cards for all 8 factions straight from the start (Crab, Crane, Scorpion, Mantis, Unicorn, Lion, Dragon, Phoenix), or they first release what they would consider core factions (I would bet something like Crab, Crane, Lion, Scorpion, Phoenix) and follow-up quickly with extensions for the 3 remaining factions.

But I'm really sure they won't "erase" a faction.

At this point, I'm not even sure Mantis will even be a playable faction, TBH.

I don't have any doubt it will be. From the start ? it depends on what FFG's decisions will be on their release strategy.

For me, either FFG releases cards for all 8 actions straight from the start (Crab, Crane, Scorpion, Mantis, Unicorn, Lion, Dragon, Phoenix), or they first release what they would consider core factions (I would bet something like Crab, Crane, Lion, Scorpion, Phoenix) and follow-up quickly with extensions for the 3 remaining factions.

But I'm really sure they won't "erase" a faction.

there are nine factions

I don't have any doubt it will be. From the start ? it depends on what FFG's decisions will be on their release strategy.

For me, either FFG releases cards for all 8 actions straight from the start (Crab, Crane, Scorpion, Mantis, Unicorn, Lion, Dragon, Phoenix), or they first release what they would consider core factions (I would bet something like Crab, Crane, Lion, Scorpion, Phoenix) and follow-up quickly with extensions for the 3 remaining factions.

But I'm really sure they won't "erase" a faction.

there are nine factions

Probably not to start.

At this point, I'm not even sure Mantis will even be a playable faction, TBH.

I don't have any doubt it will be. From the start ? it depends on what FFG's decisions will be on their release strategy.

For me, either FFG releases cards for all 8 actions straight from the start (Crab, Crane, Scorpion, Mantis, Unicorn, Lion, Dragon, Phoenix), or they first release what they would consider core factions (I would bet something like Crab, Crane, Lion, Scorpion, Phoenix) and follow-up quickly with extensions for the 3 remaining factions.

But I'm really sure they won't "erase" a faction.

there are nine factions

Technically, there are twelve: the nine Great Clans, the Minor Clans, the Imperials, and the Brotherhood of Shinsei. You can also slap in the non-Spider Shadowlands, the Naga, and the Nezumi. Going even further, you can have the Yodotai, the Yobanjin, and maybe the Burning Sands.

Takuan needs his honor afterall...

In the latest Tomorrow's Prophets installment , Takuan keeps his honor and shames someone. Big time.

At this point, I'm not even sure Mantis will even be a playable faction, TBH.

I don't have any doubt it will be. From the start ? it depends on what FFG's decisions will be on their release strategy.

For me, either FFG releases cards for all 8 actions straight from the start (Crab, Crane, Scorpion, Mantis, Unicorn, Lion, Dragon, Phoenix), or they first release what they would consider core factions (I would bet something like Crab, Crane, Lion, Scorpion, Phoenix) and follow-up quickly with extensions for the 3 remaining factions.

But I'm really sure they won't "erase" a faction.

We were talking about this locally a couple of weeks ago at card night. Someone mentioned that FFG might just decide to have Mantis, Spider, Naga, and Nezumi as four of the the starting factions.

At this point, I'm not even sure Mantis will even be a playable faction, TBH.

I don't have any doubt it will be. From the start ? it depends on what FFG's decisions will be on their release strategy.

For me, either FFG releases cards for all 8 actions straight from the start (Crab, Crane, Scorpion, Mantis, Unicorn, Lion, Dragon, Phoenix), or they first release what they would consider core factions (I would bet something like Crab, Crane, Lion, Scorpion, Phoenix) and follow-up quickly with extensions for the 3 remaining factions.

But I'm really sure they won't "erase" a faction.

there are nine factions

Technically, there are twelve: the nine Great Clans, the Minor Clans, the Imperials, and the Brotherhood of Shinsei. You can also slap in the non-Spider Shadowlands, the Naga, and the Nezumi. Going even further, you can have the Yodotai, the Yobanjin, and maybe the Burning Sands.

most of those were never official ccg factions, and those that were never had a consistent presence. but thats not the point.

no matter how much you guys protest, shadowlands/spider have been a starting, core faction for basically the life of the game. longer than the mantis. theres no reason to expect them not to be included except sour grapes or the pointless hope for a reboot, but even then we'd be back at shadowlands, and then we'd have a shadowlands faction. L5R is defined, in a lot of ways, by its opposition to the shadowlands. that includes a villain faction. and it always has.

Villains are not usually player factions. Shadowlands will exist to start, but there's no requirement they start playable.

no matter how much you guys protest, shadowlands/spider have been a starting, core faction for basically the life of the game. longer than the mantis. theres no reason to expect them not to be included except sour grapes or the pointless hope for a reboot, but even then we'd be back at shadowlands, and then we'd have a shadowlands faction. L5R is defined, in a lot of ways, by its opposition to the shadowlands. that includes a villain faction. and it always has.

Villains are not usually player factions. Shadowlands will exist to start, but there's no requirement they start playable.

since when does what usually happen matter here? what matters is l5r, and for l5r, shadowlands has always been a playable faction. the only reason to think otherwise is saltiness.

no matter how much you guys protest, shadowlands/spider have been a starting, core faction for basically the life of the game. longer than the mantis. theres no reason to expect them not to be included except sour grapes or the pointless hope for a reboot, but even then we'd be back at shadowlands, and then we'd have a shadowlands faction. L5R is defined, in a lot of ways, by its opposition to the shadowlands. that includes a villain faction. and it always has.

Villains are not usually player factions. Shadowlands will exist to start, but there's no requirement they start playable.

since when does what usually happen matter here? what matters is l5r, and for l5r, shadowlands has always been a playable faction. the only reason to think otherwise is saltiness.

I stand corrected; Shadowlands did get a promo stronghold in Imperial.

That said, there's nothing salty about recognizing the impracticality of designing nine factions.

no matter how much you guys protest, shadowlands/spider have been a starting, core faction for basically the life of the game. longer than the mantis. theres no reason to expect them not to be included except sour grapes or the pointless hope for a reboot, but even then we'd be back at shadowlands, and then we'd have a shadowlands faction. L5R is defined, in a lot of ways, by its opposition to the shadowlands. that includes a villain faction. and it always has.

Villains are not usually player factions. Shadowlands will exist to start, but there's no requirement they start playable.

since when does what usually happen matter here? what matters is l5r, and for l5r, shadowlands has always been a playable faction. the only reason to think otherwise is saltiness.

I stand corrected; Shadowlands did get a promo stronghold in Imperial.

That said, there's nothing salty about recognizing the impracticality of designing nine factions.

maybe i'm projecting, but whenever people talk about problems in design, it seems like eliminating spider/shadowlands is always the first idea, and its a terrible one. if you've got 8 factions on one side, many of whom are mechanically and thematically overlapping in dramatic ways, and one faction on the other, and that one faction is narratively critical to your setting WHY ARE YOU TRYING TO ELIMINATE THAT ONE?! its saltiness thats why. people like to hate the shadowlands, thats cool. but they shouldn't pretend like they're being astute game designers while they do it. the better solution might be generic "rokugan" strongholds with clan based overlays or just clan personalities. but nuking the SLH/Spider as a playable faction is a bad solution as long as you're talking about a game called L5R.

no matter how much you guys protest, shadowlands/spider have been a starting, core faction for basically the life of the game. longer than the mantis. theres no reason to expect them not to be included except sour grapes or the pointless hope for a reboot, but even then we'd be back at shadowlands, and then we'd have a shadowlands faction. L5R is defined, in a lot of ways, by its opposition to the shadowlands. that includes a villain faction. and it always has.

Villains are not usually player factions. Shadowlands will exist to start, but there's no requirement they start playable.

since when does what usually happen matter here? what matters is l5r, and for l5r, shadowlands has always been a playable faction. the only reason to think otherwise is saltiness.

I stand corrected; Shadowlands did get a promo stronghold in Imperial.

That said, there's nothing salty about recognizing the impracticality of designing nine factions.

maybe i'm projecting, but

Probably a good sign you are.

no matter how much you guys protest, shadowlands/spider have been a starting, core faction for basically the life of the game. longer than the mantis. theres no reason to expect them not to be included except sour grapes or the pointless hope for a reboot, but even then we'd be back at shadowlands, and then we'd have a shadowlands faction. L5R is defined, in a lot of ways, by its opposition to the shadowlands. that includes a villain faction. and it always has.

Villains are not usually player factions. Shadowlands will exist to start, but there's no requirement they start playable.

since when does what usually happen matter here? what matters is l5r, and for l5r, shadowlands has always been a playable faction. the only reason to think otherwise is saltiness.

I stand corrected; Shadowlands did get a promo stronghold in Imperial.

That said, there's nothing salty about recognizing the impracticality of designing nine factions.

maybe i'm projecting, but

Probably a good sign you are.

you can ignore my argument to focus on my tone all you want, but it doesn't make me less right.

I was going to type out a bunch of stuff, but I decided that I'll just repeat what I said on SFL (or what I think I said): Spider players should choose between being the Horde and being the Spider Clan. Spider Clan is welcome as a player faction, SLH is not.

It was not an omission. I do think the Shadowlands will not be a faction in the next L5R game. And I do feel fine with it. Eventhough it's not because I feel fine with it that I think it will not be a faction. Sometimes I do think some things will happen although I am not fine with it !

And for the rest, ronins, monks, minor clans, imperials, etc. Well... they will have cards but they won't be factions. And I think we all agree on that !

Spider Clan is welcome as a player faction,

Is it? You must run in different circles than I.

Spider Clan is welcome as a player faction,

Is it? You must run in different circles than I.

It is for me, and since opinions are the only thing that matter apparently, it's just as valid as anything else anyone has said.

With that, I'm going to stop derailing this thread with unawesomeness about L5R.

Can we stop rehashing the Spider arguments, please? Everyone's opinions are set in stone by this point. Nobody's going to change their minds.

@ the OP:

The Spider Clan is a lightning rod for controversy. That's because although other factions often contain villains, the Spider is the only playable faction that's entirely and explicitly villainous. Whether this is good or bad for the game is a sore point among pretty much everyone.

That said, there's nothing salty about recognizing the impracticality of designing nine factions.

Nine factions that share the same common theme. That's like designing one faction with nine sub-factions. It would be impractical only if FFG decided to roll the Great Clans into one faction (it is not only possible but fairly easy to do) and go haywire with the other factions, like having the Ancient Five Races, the Yodotai Empire, the Naga, the Burning Sands, the Shadowlands, and the Lying Darkness as the other factions.

I'd rather Shadowlands over Spider and do not see the game existing without one of them in some version or another.