AGoT with asians was also a good but vauge description

Well, AGoT and L5R are both products of Generation X minds. Only difference is that Martin had a lot more leeway with his work because Westeros is an European (=Generation X) setting while Wick had to piss against the wind with Rokugan, trying to insert Generation X stuff into an Asian setting.

AGoT with asians was also a good but vauge description

Well, AGoT and L5R are both products of Generation X minds. Only difference is that Martin had a lot more leeway with his work because Westeros is an European (=Generation X) setting while Wick had to piss against the wind with Rokugan, trying to insert Generation X stuff into an Asian setting.

Martin's a Baby Boomer, man. Born in the 40s. Hardly a Generation X guy.

AGoT with asians was also a good but vauge description

Well, AGoT and L5R are both products of Generation X minds. Only difference is that Martin had a lot more leeway with his work because Westeros is an European (=Generation X) setting while Wick had to piss against the wind with Rokugan, trying to insert Generation X stuff into an Asian setting.

Martin's a Baby Boomer, man. Born in the 40s. Hardly a Generation X guy.

Generation X as "lived through the end of the Cold War and did stuff around that time". A Generation X setting is like the big evil faction (Soviets/Others/Shadowland) with an evil strongman physically leading them (Stalin/Night King/Fu Leng) to a supposedly apocalyptic end battle (WW3/Long Night/Second Day of Thunder)... but the the Soviets failed to deliver, so the Generation X grew bitter over the missed awesome showdown, and vent their frustration one the good guys (NATO/Houses/Clans) whose big alliance is now all flawed and bad and they fight among themselves a lot, because f*ck NATO they trashed the fun - the only escape is romanticized honor but it fails more than it works, though it tends to win the day in some shape or form. So the whole thing is a huge Cold War allegory with all the fighting, backstabbing and behind-the-curtains dealing, and other crazy stuff, but turned up to eleven in an angry way.

There is, like, a full analysis about this somewhere on the internet.

The Lion clan may be the most focused on honor but I have oftener argued that the Scorpion clan is in fact the most honorable as they are willing to do what is necessary and take on that role willingly so the other Clans don't have to.

Yea, I've heard this theory before. Sadly, Scorpions seems to be the only one to find such a theory interesting !

Well, take a look at the Onyx fictions the story team put out I personally love one of the last acts, where the Lion see the actions of Nitoshi....

The games ability to generate clan loyalty was exceptional and hopefully can be continued... <snip>

theres a lot of things about why L5R succeeded. Art. Fictions. Interactivity. Solid game design HAHAHAH okay so that one maybe not so much all the time. But i really think that the thing that made L5R special and in a lot of ways kept it going past its due date aws the fanatical loyalty that the clans engendered. i think all of the other things i mentioned feed into that. each clan has a really strong feel, that the art and fictions and mechanics created, and the interactivity gave you something tangible to fight for. you weren't just someone who liked a clan. you fought for that clan. you were a PART of that clan, and that built community. thats completely unique. i don't know any other card game where the player identify so strongly, so personally, with the team/faction they play.

Ya, as people have said, faction loyalty and the interactive story have always been the big two draws of L5R. Anyways, I notice a lot is being said of the main clans, but very little is being said for the other, smaller factions. Which, to be fair, adds to the already fairly large list of factions, but faction loyalty being what it is there are those who would be sad to see them not show up in some manner [like myself with Naga].

Naga: snake people, really ancient, have a sort of shared mind going.

Nesumi: rat people, they breed like crazy, and they scavenge what they need.

Shadowlands: big evil, mostly morphed into the Spider clan, but there are some vestiges of it around that doesn't work for them. Think giant demons and hoards of undead.

The Nothing: a bunch of ninja who worship/gave their minds to the incarnation of nothingness and unmaking. Also mostly went over to the Spider, but was its own thing for a while.

Toturi's army: a bunch of guys who rallied behind this one guy who later became the emperor. Kinda stopped being a thing after that, I believe.

Brotherhood of Shinsei: monks who are mostly neutral among the clans. Samurai from the clans will often "retire" by joining them, if they live long enough and choose to.

Ronin: clanless samurai, doing their own thing, usually either well enough to make them a huge deal that they can be that good without a major clan, or poorly and barely making it by.

Minor clans: a ton of them, basically just clans that are too small to be significant in wider affairs, but each have their niche. They have been working on forming an alliance with each other that could make them basically into one fully fledged faction, and the Major clans have a habit of absorbing them from time to time, especially the Mantis.

I think that is all of the "lesser" factions, but I am probably messing some. That is what makes faction loyalty such a double edged sword. There are too many factions for everyone to be that big, but at the same time there will be people who want so much for theirs to rise.

Legend of the Five Rings is a universe I have never heard about until here on Fantasy Flight a few months ago. So it's about some samurai clans that clash....is there magic, undead, Dark Elves and the like?

Was the mechanics of the L5R CCG as good as Conquest (the best I've ever seen!)

I guess it boils down to that all other LCGs have exciting universes while I've never heard of L5R and some samurai clans fighting sounds like: "ok...."

This is what I said in a previous thread, and I feel that it should stand here too:

Legend of the Five Rings is a game where you play magical samurai in the Emerald Empire of Rokugan. Great Clans descended from demigods feud for supremacy, while dark forces lurk in the shadows to strike the Empire down. In Rokugan, the sword is the ultimate arbiter of justice, yet Honor is stronger than steel.

No, really, that is the best pitch for the game. The original game was a strongly Faction based CCG where players participated in a two year storyline called the Clan War. In the Clan War, the six Great Clans (and four other factions) battled it out in a no-holds-barred civil war while the Emperor lay dying on the throne. About halfway through, the Emperor suddenly recovered, only to be revealed as the dark god Fu Leng who would rule Rokugan for a thousand years of darkness. To stop him, the seven Great Clans (one had been "destroyed" before the start of the storyline, but was one of the playable factions) were united under seven heroes, called the Seven Thunders, who fought Fu Leng and killed him on the Day of Thunder. One of the surviving Thunders was crowned the next Emperor, and the game continued thence for 18 years of far muddier history and storyline.

And by interactive, we means LITERALLY interactive. The Thunder that became the next Emperor, Toturi, was the Thunder of the Clan that won GenCon 1997 World Championship. Over the twenty years of L5R's run as a CCG, players across the world won tournaments, participated in community votes, held charity auctions, and all sorts of things to influence the ongoing, interactive storyline to varying degrees. The combination of the interactive storyline and the strong Faction identity generated an active, vocal community of players who were immensely loyal to the game and brand.

The full post is here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/220306-can-someone-explain-l5r-to-me/?p=2223488

I talk about the CCG and its mechanics here: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/220306-can-someone-explain-l5r-to-me/?p=2223559

As for the Cool Factor, a lot of L5R's appeal drives from a combination of the Chivalric Fantasy capitalized on by using Samurai (the Western knight have been deconstructed so thoroughly to most of us that it takes the exoticism of samurai to get us geared up for such things), and how the community truly is a powerful force for inclusiveness. L5R fans have more in common, most often, with sports fans than other CCG players. They stick with their faction due to loyalty, rather than success.

They stick with their faction due to loyalty, rather than success.

... Alas, 'tis true...

*Baleful glare at his Ivory Edition Phoenix deck, which might have been more effective if it had literally been thrown at the opposing player*

Generation X as "lived through the end of the Cold War and did stuff around that time". A Generation X setting is like the big evil faction (Soviets/Others/Shadowland) with an evil strongman physically leading them (Stalin/Night King/Fu Leng) to a supposedly apocalyptic end battle (WW3/Long Night/Second Day of Thunder)... but the the Soviets failed to deliver, so the Generation X grew bitter over the missed awesome showdown, and vent their frustration one the good guys (NATO/Houses/Clans) whose big alliance is now all flawed and bad and they fight among themselves a lot, because f*ck NATO they trashed the fun - the only escape is romanticized honor but it fails more than it works, though it tends to win the day in some shape or form. So the whole thing is a huge Cold War allegory with all the fighting, backstabbing and behind-the-curtains dealing, and other crazy stuff, but turned up to eleven in an angry way.

There is, like, a full analysis about this somewhere on the internet.

I think this is really interesting and I'd like to know more; could you post a link or point me in the right direction to find it myself (name/book/article)?

They stick with their faction due to loyalty, rather than success.

... Alas, 'tis true...

*Baleful glare at his Ivory Edition Phoenix deck, which might have been more effective if it had literally been thrown at the opposing player*

Emperor through Ivory Edition Spider knows your pain. even if i'd been a good player, which is definitively not true, i couldn't have won much. Spider was so bad for a while there i'm not even sure you could have hurt someone by throwing your deck at them. I think it would have turned into lotus petals and you'd have been obligated to feel bad about it.

They stick with their faction due to loyalty, rather than success.

... Alas, 'tis true...

*Baleful glare at his Ivory Edition Phoenix deck, which might have been more effective if it had literally been thrown at the opposing player*

Emperor through Ivory Edition Spider knows your pain. even if i'd been a good player, which is definitively not true, i couldn't have won much. Spider was so bad for a while there i'm not even sure you could have hurt someone by throwing your deck at them. I think it would have turned into lotus petals and you'd have been obligated to feel bad about it.

Emperor you say? TSL skipping ninjas was one of the best decks of this era.

IvE was so-so, but with 20F cheap neverending swarms and rebuilt ninjas, Spider became good thing to play. With complete 20F they could receive superb military control deck as well.

Emperor you say? TSL skipping ninjas was one of the best decks of this era.

Unless your opponent's running Interference or Footsteps of Madness. Or movement negation if they're blitzing you before you've got a ninja on the field.

The Shadow's Lair was undoubtedly Spider's best Stronghold during Emperor, but calling it one of the best decks of the era strikes me as overly generous.

After all we are talking about the Clan that went all of 2012 with only a single Kotei win. And that was in Iceland.

Emperor you say? TSL skipping ninjas was one of the best decks of this era.

Unless your opponent's running Interference or Footsteps of Madness. Or movement negation if they're blitzing you before you've got a ninja on the field.

Yes, everyone played Interference! Let's list all narrow meta silver bullets and prove that every Clan was bad. Same way we could say FotM was weak because of Footsteps of Madness. And are we talking about whole EE or his last quarter where FotM demolished whole scene no matter of clan?

The Shadow's Lair was undoubtedly Spider's best Stronghold during Emperor, but calling it one of the best decks of the era strikes me as overly generous.

I got pleasure to see what well driven TSL was able to achieve in hands of fe Walec.

Hey, and for 2-3 weeks Spider was Ultra Tier 1 thanks to Mask combo.

After all we are talking about the Clan that went all of 2012 with only a single Kotei win. And that was in Iceland.

Yes, but year later appearance of Spider in various Tops increased significantly.

In my honest opinion this decktype was just great. And Cielago's " Spider was so bad for a while there i'm not even sure you could have hurt someone by throwing your deck at them" is just far from true.

Hey, I played Exploding Susumu Courtiers, so I am not one to throw stones about Clan loyalty in L5R.

I wrote up a long post refuting Kempy's response, but i realized a) its off topic and b) its more important to point out that this is another thing that makes L5R great: arguing with other people about why your clan is either the best or the worst! not even being a little bit sarcastic when i say some of my fondest memories of l5r are long, rambling debates on forums, especially during preview season, about how spider were still terrible and yes really dishonor was an autoloss and no that card is or isn't good and OMG this changes everything (it never did) or how did we miss how good this card is.

Hey, I played Exploding Susumu Courtiers, so I am not one to throw stones about Clan loyalty in L5R.

Implying this isn't the proper use of the Susumu courtiers...

Takuan needs his honor afterall...

What's cool about it?

NINJAS

When I said "what's so cool about L5R" I meant: "What is so good about L5R (that it has a fanatical following)?"

It seems faction loyalty in L5R is greater than in Warhammer. Makes me think that 95% of you guys would go crazy if something like Warhammer 40K Conquests alignment wheel was introduced in the L5R LCG

You choose a warlord in a faction and can inlude non-loyal cards from ONE adjacent faction.

From what I can gather, most L5R players will stick to "their" clan. Often zealously so.

When I said "what's so cool about L5R" I meant: "What is so good about L5R (that it has a fanatical following)?"

It seems faction loyalty in L5R is greater than in Warhammer. Makes me think that 95% of you guys would go crazy if something like Warhammer 40K Conquests alignment wheel was introduced in the L5R LCG

You choose a warlord in a faction and can inlude non-loyal cards from ONE adjacent faction.

i'm not sure if you think l5r players would go crazy happy or crazy mad, but i don't think you're right either way. we could always include other faction's personalities (as long as they aren't loyal) at a penalty from _any_ clan. and while splashing in out of clans has always been a thing, and the odd superfriends deck has made the rounds, neither is a fundamental thing that people would get worked up about if the game was changed like you describe. not even 5% of the players would raise a ruckus worthy of the label crazy.

It seems faction loyalty in L5R is greater than in Warhammer. Makes me think that 95% of you guys would go crazy if something like Warhammer 40K Conquests alignment wheel was introduced in the L5R LCG

You choose a warlord in a faction and can inlude non-loyal cards from ONE adjacent faction.

The operative word is "can". If we don't have to, we probably won't.

Also, can't Necrons include any non-Loyal cards from any faction in their deck (though they can only play the one they chose on the enslavement dial that round)?

When I said "what's so cool about L5R" I meant: "What is so good about L5R (that it has a fanatical following)?"

It seems faction loyalty in L5R is greater than in Warhammer. Makes me think that 95% of you guys would go crazy if something like Warhammer 40K Conquests alignment wheel was introduced in the L5R LCG

Eh, not really. The only thing that would drive me insane would be forcing me to play Crane or Mantis...

During the 15+ years I played L5R, I always really liked the Clan Loyalty among a big part of the players. Of course some players didn't care about a Clan, but a lot of the players I met did.

At each storyline tournament, you could see players from each Clan gathering for a chat, exchanging deck ideas, and you can find forums on the web for each and every Clan. Of course, now that the game is in hiatus, most of them are not as active as they've been in the past, but I think they'll be back on their feet once the LCG hits the streets.

This is part of the game. I sincerely think it will stay a part of it, but switching to a LCG model will mean every player will have it easy to build decks for other Clans to try out (except if FFG follows one of Kempy's models with Clan Starters and neutral packs, but I highly doubt it). And this is good as well.

Of course, some would argue that you can always print proxies to try other factions, but I know I'm not alone in saying I'd rather play with the cards from the Core sets I bought.

Clan Loyalty was about winning with decks from your faction to have them get victories in the story. It was not always military victories in the story. It could be getting a powerful artifact, ally, or discovering a (dark) secret, or receiving a gift from Heavens, etc.

Let's hope FFG will keep that idea!

Hey, I played Exploding Susumu Courtiers, so I am not one to throw stones about Clan loyalty in L5R.

Implying this isn't the proper use of the Susumu courtiers...

Takuan needs his honor afterall...

You're supposed to blow up Endo ad infinitum.

When I said "what's so cool about L5R" I meant: "What is so good about L5R (that it has a fanatical following)?"

You could ask that about any long lasting franchise. I think at its basest it boils down to good characters and/or a good narrative that the audience gets invested in. To go back to your original post Star Wars is Star Wars and L5R is L5R. A lot of people found something they liked and stuck with it.

Clan Loyalty was about winning with decks from your faction to have them get victories in the story. It was not always military victories in the story. It could be getting a powerful artifact, ally, or discovering a (dark) secret, or receiving a gift from Heavens, etc.

Let's hope FFG will keep that idea!

I'm mostly concerned about what the tournament scene is going to look like in general. Will there still be Pac Rim and South American Championships? Will the World Championship still alternate between North America and Europe? The uncertainty has me exceedingly anxious.

It seems faction loyalty in L5R is greater than in Warhammer. Makes me think that 95% of you guys would go crazy if something like Warhammer 40K Conquests alignment wheel was introduced in the L5R LCG

You choose a warlord in a faction and can inlude non-loyal cards from ONE adjacent faction.

The operative word is "can". If we don't have to, we probably won't.

Also, can't Necrons include any non-Loyal cards from any faction in their deck (though they can only play the one they chose on the enslavement dial that round)?

Yes.