And what I mean with bad business model is not a consumer friendly one, but one that expands your business. Asmodee had 40% growth in revenue 2016 alone so far, their games are build around the very idea that beginners have a good experience. Which is kind of one of their major improvements in imperial assault over decent too.

That is the part of business model which I mean, a model which actively combats stagnation, because stagnation is the equivalent of death.

Asmodee's product line is a handful of years old, and yet we can already see them combatting stagnation as they throw everything and the kitchen sink into X-Wing to keep churning new sales. Give it a few more years, and they'll struggle with the second hand market just like GW does. Close to half my collection is from EBay lots as it is.

This is the part people aren't understanding. X-Wing is a relatively new game, early in its product life cycle. Games Workshop couldn't duplicate Asmodee's business strategy if they wanted to. But Asmodee's strategy isn't any more consumer friendly than GW's, lol. It's just deceptively structured. Look at what the "Actual Cost" is of a tournament winning list is vs the "Model Cost" of a tournament winning list. The way FFG packages upgrades tied to specific ships and has forced rarity on desirable cards. Twin Laser Turret? Better buy K-Wings! Glitterstim? Crack Shot? TIE Mk II? There's a reason why E-Bay is stacked full of "No Upgrades" Imperial Raiders, Khirax Fighters, Punishers, K-Wings and Star Vipers on the cheap.

We dump of Games Workshop, but the cost to competitively play X-Wing is not much less than small 40K armies, and you're using a fraction of the models you're buying. It's good for casual players who just want to buy a few ships and fly around with their friends, and it has a low cost of entry, but, then again, with GW introducing Kill Team as an officially supported product again...

Catan is from 95, they bought the english rights just in january.

Twilight imperium is from 98, etc

Asmodee is not only expanding one product line, they aim at the whole market, taking a loan of 80 millions just to acquire 2Zgames is for sure an aggressive move,but got again tons of old and/or established product lines as well, such a Carcassonne or Pandemic.

And sure, their X-Wing model builds onto complexity creep for tournament players, but at the same time they keep it simple for beginners. I can snap a lambda shuttle, a TIE-Interceptor and an Inquisitor hand have fun with my printed list from the internet. With pictures of the cards and all. That is a model which is inviting for new players, while still generating extra revenue from invested players. It's basically brilliant to keep the new players coming while stimulating the established player base to invest more into the game.

(btw, a good business model does not require to be consumer friendly)

But as I said, X-Wing is that Asmodees growth is based on, and they grow like mad, a 40% raise in revenue in H1 2016 compared to H1 2015. Their RPG Series is giving all the old established series a run for their money and is literally expanding the market significantly, their pokemon cards seem to sell like mad, especially in france, etc

Yeah perfectly petty move characteristic of GW, ffg knocked them off their throne so they took away their licence.

The big problem with your argument is that Asmodee have announced, and are enforcing, a GW based profit margin business model which is entirely based on whether or not you are a 'bricks and mortar' or 'internet' seller.

Yep, the interwebs is the way to buy things cheaply at the moment, but if Asmodee keeps going, that ain't going to be the case and real shops ain't going anywhere soon.

Cheers

Baaa

BTW: That is the case for NA, which is their second biggest market. In Europe this does not seem to apply at all. Though real shops are not going away anytime soon here anyway, heavier urbanisation and a retail market which uses a hybrid model with physical & online stores.

Yeah perfectly petty move characteristic of GW, ffg knocked them off their throne so they took away their licence.

Hobo!

Where have you been?

Cheers

Baaa

The big problem with your argument is that Asmodee have announced, and are enforcing, a GW based profit margin business model which is entirely based on whether or not you are a 'bricks and mortar' or 'internet' seller.

Yep, the interwebs is the way to buy things cheaply at the moment, but if Asmodee keeps going, that ain't going to be the case and real shops ain't going anywhere soon.

Cheers

Baaa

BTW: That is the case for NA, which is their second biggest market. In Europe this does not seem to apply at all. Though real shops are not going away anytime soon here anyway, heavier urbanisation and a retail market which uses a hybrid model physical&online stores

But you're missing the point,

Asmodee announced that there will be a different pricing scale dependant on whether or not you were a 'bricks and mortar' or 'internet' outlet. This IS being applied by Asmodee's distributors (check the price creep on X-Wing blisters in Europe).

I'm sorry, but people on these boards seem to think that GW is the big bad demon of the gaming world, whilst completely ignoring the fact the owners of their (current) favouritist miniature game isn't far behind.

Cheers

Baaa

Just saying: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

For those of us interested but not "in the know", could you elaborate a bit?

That was a bad time....

A dark time? Emperor took over, killed all the Jedi bad?

It's almost as bad as the prequels.

Cheers

Baaa

FW's LotR was a million times better than Age of Smegma. A MILLION times.

Didn't GW give FFG an ultimatum to discontinue all their miniatures lines? X-Wing in particular has been taking a massive chunk out of 40K.

The big problem with your argument is that Asmodee have announced, and are enforcing, a GW based profit margin business model which is entirely based on whether or not you are a 'bricks and mortar' or 'internet' seller.

Yep, the interwebs is the way to buy things cheaply at the moment, but if Asmodee keeps going, that ain't going to be the case and real shops ain't going anywhere soon.

Cheers

Baaa

BTW: That is the case for NA, which is their second biggest market. In Europe this does not seem to apply at all. Though real shops are not going away anytime soon here anyway, heavier urbanisation and a retail market which uses a hybrid model physical&online stores

But you're missing the point,

Asmodee announced that there will be a different pricing scale dependant on whether or not you were a 'bricks and mortar' or 'internet' outlet. This IS being applied by Asmodee's distributors (check the price creep on X-Wing blisters in Europe).

I'm sorry, but people on these boards seem to think that GW is the big bad demon of the gaming world, whilst completely ignoring the fact the owners of their (current) favouritist miniature game isn't far behind.

Cheers

Baaa

I am not missing the point, I am saying that this is not applies to europe. It not applicable anyway because there are barely any brick and mortar stores without online store . There was never this huge price gap between online and offline like in NA either. And most of the latest price increases were either global or based on increases from the local distributors. But ok, the UK distributor is Asmodee. ^^

Besides, I don't care about GW and their consumer relationship, I never made the claim either that this was the problem. I claimed that their business model was, because it did literally nothing to grow the company. I mean sure, the bad reputation GW had was for sure not helping with growth, but that would be nothing marketing could not fix real quick. What you need are products that people want and a concept that makes sure that more people want your stuff, while maintaining your old customer.

GW never really expanded successful. They had limited success with licensing either, while other companies had magnitudes more success with just building their own IPs based on GW ideas.

Didn't GW give FFG an ultimatum to discontinue all their miniatures lines? X-Wing in particular has been taking a massive chunk out of 40K.

I doubt that.

The big problem with your argument is that Asmodee have announced, and are enforcing, a GW based profit margin business model which is entirely based on whether or not you are a 'bricks and mortar' or 'internet' seller.

Yep, the interwebs is the way to buy things cheaply at the moment, but if Asmodee keeps going, that ain't going to be the case and real shops ain't going anywhere soon.

Cheers

Baaa

BTW: That is the case for NA, which is their second biggest market. In Europe this does not seem to apply at all. Though real shops are not going away anytime soon here anyway, heavier urbanisation and a retail market which uses a hybrid model physical&online stores

But you're missing the point,

Asmodee announced that there will be a different pricing scale dependant on whether or not you were a 'bricks and mortar' or 'internet' outlet. This IS being applied by Asmodee's distributors (check the price creep on X-Wing blisters in Europe).

I'm sorry, but people on these boards seem to think that GW is the big bad demon of the gaming world, whilst completely ignoring the fact the owners of their (current) favouritist miniature game isn't far behind.

Cheers

Baaa

I am not missing the point, I am saying that this is not applies to europe. It not applicable anyway because there are barely any brick and mortar stores without online store . There was never this huge price gap between online and offline like in NA either. And most of the latest price increases were either global or based on increases from the local distributors. But ok, the UK distributor is Asmodee. ^^

Besides, I don't care about GW and their consumer relationship, I never made the claim either that this was the problem. I claimed that their business model was, because it did literally nothing to grow the company. I mean sure, the bad reputation GW had was for sure not helping with growth, but that would be nothing marketing could not fix real quick. What you need are products that people want and a concept that makes sure that more people want your stuff, while maintaining your old customer.

GW never really expanded successful. They had limited success with licensing either, while other companies had magnitudes more success with just building their own IPs based on GW ideas.

Please don't keep living under the delusion that Asmodee are in any way, shape or form morally better than GW.

Within a month or so of taking over FFG they announced internet sales policies similar to GW's and prices ARE increasing, both online and off.

You are playing a game made by companies whose sole aim in life is to make profits for their shareholders. When you recognise that simple fact, you'll realise that all of our arguments online about x or y company are irrelevant.

Cheers

Baaa

I wonder if they keep producing until that date (feb) or if they are cutting everything now as we speak.

I better get my last two expansion packs for 40KC!

Besides, I don't care about GW and their consumer relationship, I never made the claim either that this was the problem. I claimed that their business model was, because it did literally nothing to grow the company. I mean sure, the bad reputation GW had was for sure not helping with growth, but that would be nothing marketing could not fix real quick. What you need are products that people want and a concept that makes sure that more people want your stuff, while maintaining your old customer.

You do know that the Start Collecting boxes got new players to the game and had old players start new factions? Also things like Harlequins, Adeptus Mechanicus, Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults are things old players wanted for a long timeand 30K ist quite popular even with FWs even higher prices so GW started to make 30K plastic marines, again something people wanted, same goes for Warhammer Quest. And the new Kill Team is aimed at smaller cheaper games..

Yes they are still expensive and when something is comparably cheap (like the DW characters) i will be corrected with the next release (Kharn)

It really seems they are getting better with their new lead but yes there is still much that could be improved, but they are slowly learning.

I wonder if they keep producing until that date (feb) or if they are cutting everything now as we speak.

I better get my last two expansion packs for 40KC!

Me too,

I love that game.

Cheers

Baaa

I wonder if they keep producing until that date (feb) or if they are cutting everything now as we speak.

I better get my last two expansion packs for 40KC!

Me too,

I love that game.

Cheers

Baaa

Sadly it never took off at my LGS, but I will miss it. Was a good way to play in the 40k universe without spending tons of money on paint and figures.

Is it really that good? Was thinking about buying it.

Is it really that good? Was thinking about buying it.

It got a bit confusing with the tyranids double dial and stuff, but for the most part it's a solid game. Like I said, the alternative is either the tabletop game (expensive and newest army = OP) or an older obscure 40k CCG (and you'd be better of with the FFG one)

Maybe you can get your local LGS to give you some discounts. I'd get the main box and the 2 delux expansions, so you have all the factions.

Translation: "We are sick of GW's crap so were not working with them anymore, but were saying it nicely"

I don't think "crap" drives business decisions as much as some people think. It's more likely, "We can't hit profitability margins with the license fee GW is insisting on."

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement until it wasn't.

Besides, I don't care about GW and their consumer relationship, I never made the claim either that this was the problem. I claimed that their business model was, because it did literally nothing to grow the company. I mean sure, the bad reputation GW had was for sure not helping with growth, but that would be nothing marketing could not fix real quick. What you need are products that people want and a concept that makes sure that more people want your stuff, while maintaining your old customer.

You do know that the Start Collecting boxes got new players to the game and had old players start new factions? Also things like Harlequins, Adeptus Mechanicus, Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults are things old players wanted for a long timeand 30K ist quite popular even with FWs even higher prices so GW started to make 30K plastic marines, again something people wanted, same goes for Warhammer Quest. And the new Kill Team is aimed at smaller cheaper games..

Yes they are still expensive and when something is comparably cheap (like the DW characters) i will be corrected with the next release (Kharn)

It really seems they are getting better with their new lead but yes there is still much that could be improved, but they are slowly learning.

Besides, I don't care about GW and their consumer relationship, I never made the claim either that this was the problem. I claimed that their business model was, because it did literally nothing to grow the company. I mean sure, the bad reputation GW had was for sure not helping with growth, but that would be nothing marketing could not fix real quick. What you need are products that people want and a concept that makes sure that more people want your stuff, while maintaining your old customer.

You do know that the Start Collecting boxes got new players to the game and had old players start new factions? Also things like Harlequins, Adeptus Mechanicus, Deathwatch and Genestealer Cults are things old players wanted for a long timeand 30K ist quite popular even with FWs even higher prices so GW started to make 30K plastic marines, again something people wanted, same goes for Warhammer Quest. And the new Kill Team is aimed at smaller cheaper games..

Yes they are still expensive and when something is comparably cheap (like the DW characters) i will be corrected with the next release (Kharn)

It really seems they are getting better with their new lead but yes there is still much that could be improved, but they are slowly learning.

£22 kharn the betrayer says they ain't learnt crap.

Is it really that good? Was thinking about buying it.

It got a bit confusing with the tyranids double dial and stuff, but for the most part it's a solid game. Like I said, the alternative is either the tabletop game (expensive and newest army = OP) or an older obscure 40k CCG (and you'd be better of with the FFG one)

Maybe you can get your local LGS to give you some discounts. I'd get the main box and the 2 delux expansions, so you have all the factions.

Thanks for the advice.

What happened with the Horus Heresy boardgame?

I guess it's been out of print, but it's not listed amongst the GW IP games in the article.

It was gone a long time ago now.

So I remember when the GW LotR miniatures were released about the time of the first movie, and I wanted them, but didn't know how to paint, wasn't sure who I'd play the game with, and thought they were too expensive at the time -- so I never took the plunge.

How did that break the GW business model?

It was a bad license deal.

GW had to stock, advertise, demo and put shelf space aside. It was (is) a good game with a good ruleset, but it didn't get the bite that GW hoped. It was a gamble that didn't pay off.

Cheers

Baaa

Not sure what your talking about here. The LotR stuff from GW sold like crazy and was primarily responsible for the huge influx of cash that allowed them to expand their manufacturing abilities so much in the early years of the century. The "Lord of the Rings bubble" is an oft argued topic among GW fans. It allowed them to expand all their ranges and buy the equipment that enables them to make their current, super detailed models, but it also served to hide the bleeding off of customers and market share for a decade, causing the problems to become much worse before upper management was forced to try and do something.

The big problem with your argument is that Asmodee have announced, and are enforcing, a GW based profit margin business model which is entirely based on whether or not you are a 'bricks and mortar' or 'internet' seller.

Yep, the interwebs is the way to buy things cheaply at the moment, but if Asmodee keeps going, that ain't going to be the case and real shops ain't going anywhere soon.

Cheers

Baaa

BTW: That is the case for NA, which is their second biggest market. In Europe this does not seem to apply at all. Though real shops are not going away anytime soon here anyway, heavier urbanisation and a retail market which uses a hybrid model physical&online stores

But you're missing the point,

Asmodee announced that there will be a different pricing scale dependant on whether or not you were a 'bricks and mortar' or 'internet' outlet. This IS being applied by Asmodee's distributors (check the price creep on X-Wing blisters in Europe).

I'm sorry, but people on these boards seem to think that GW is the big bad demon of the gaming world, whilst completely ignoring the fact the owners of their (current) favouritist miniature game isn't far behind.

Cheers

Baaa

The big difference is that Asmodee doesn't have it's own line of brick and mortar stores that it uses to jump into markets that other stores have carved out, and then strangle those other stores by denying them product.

I'm not saying that the preferential treatment given to brick and mortar stores isn't necessarily shortsighted, but it's a far cry from the predatory business model GW used with their stores.

What happened with the Horus Heresy boardgame?

Yeah, I keep seeing that on the used shelf at one of my FLGS. I always have a moment where I think oh a Horus Heresy boardgame that sounds interesting and then the ludicrous size of the box registers and I remember buying that would be the worst idea I've ever had and I go back to playing X-Wing.

Translation: "We are sick of GW's crap so were not working with them anymore, but were saying it nicely"

Actually it's "GW are arseholes and consider their IP worth a ton of gold and an oil rig. On Mars."

Because G f#$cking W!

Let's put 5 minis instead of 10 and raise price by 5%!

Ferengis

The Ferengi are Star Trek Jews in Space and those seem to be Brits