SCREW GW!!! FFS... I got out of their crap in 2000... dam-them... and everybody that looks like 'em!

GOOD ON YOU FFG... IT'S A GOOD RIDDANCE!

Joe,

I love you, but we're going to have to disagree on this one bro.

Cheers

Baaa

Fantasy, much loved as it was, was not making money. End of. GW is a business; if something isn't making money, kill it.

The vast majority of bitching about GW comes from Codex hoppers; "Tau are great now, buy an army". "****, Eldar are better, sell Tau and buy Eldar" etc.

Fantasy, as it was (from a business sense) had to die.

Here is the problem with your logic. This applies not only to fantasy gw, it applies to Games Workshop as a whole. It seems like there are some distinct problematic issues in their business model overall, at least from the bits and bits you get from the GW player base.

As I did dislike their model nearly 30 years ago already, I might be wrong on their current business model … if there were changes at all from the 90's to now. ;-)

If I had to guess, I'd figure FFG can do far more with their own IP than with GW's at this point. They can reskin a lot of current product with the RuneWars IP, and they can released miniatures games which they can't do with GW's IP.

Seems like a smart move. I don't play or own any GW products, but from everything I read it seems GW is struggling to keep their product line fresh and relevant.

SCREW GW!!! FFS... I got out of their crap in 2000... dam-them... and everybody that looks like 'em!

GOOD ON YOU FFG... IT'S A GOOD RIDDANCE!

Joe,

I love you, but we're going to have to disagree on this one bro.

Cheers

Baaa

I know... but I used to work in the game store business and I had my fill of their biz-nezz policy even way back then.

I love you too Brah!

Fantasy, as it was (from a business sense) had to die.

They stripped away all that I found was cool about Warhammer and replaced it with a shitload of crap. I dislike the names. don't even like the new models, even if the production quality is superb. All those wannabe Space Marines and 4 legged Grots ... and round bases ... They should havve done what FFG did. An easy to access Rank and File System. With the Warhammer Fantasy models in the Old World. This is possible.

SCREW GW!!! FFS... I got out of their crap in 2000... dam-them... and everybody that looks like 'em!

GOOD ON YOU FFG... IT'S A GOOD RIDDANCE!

Joe,

I love you, but we're going to have to disagree on this one bro.

Cheers

Baaa

I know... but I used to work in the game store business and I had my fill of their biz-nezz policy even way back then.

I love you too Brah!

BOSS BOSS BOSS BOSS!

Fantasy, much loved as it was, was not making money. End of. GW is a business; if something isn't making money, kill it.

The vast majority of bitching about GW comes from Codex hoppers; "Tau are great now, buy an army". "****, Eldar are better, sell Tau and buy Eldar" etc.

Fantasy, as it was (from a business sense) had to die.

Here is the problem with your logic. This applies not only to fantasy gw, it applies to Games Workshop as a whole. It seems like there are some distinct problematic issues in their business model overall, at least from the bits and bits you get from the GW player base.

As I did dislike their model nearly 30 years ago already, I might be wrong on their current business model … if there were changes at all from the 90's to now. ;-)

Sorry, I've got to disagree with you.

Fantasy was the game that built GW. At the time it was an exciting world of Elves and Dwarves etc. The movies of the late '80's were full of fantasy ****. That changed, but a loyal fanbase remained.

Right up until the AoS makeover, GW tried to bring new players into Fantasy.

They brought out some fantastic models but people had lost interest in the game. Period.

The business model was ****, no arguments there; but I saw something on the TV last night which I've never seen, an advert for GW (albeit books).

So maybe, we'll get our games back.

Cheers

Baaa

If I had to guess, I'd figure FFG can do far more with their own IP than with GW's at this point. They can reskin a lot of current product with the RuneWars IP, and they can released miniatures games which they can't do with GW's IP.

Seems like a smart move. I don't play or own any GW products, but from everything I read it seems GW is struggling to keep their product line fresh and relevant.

You know Crabs and Draft and I and a few others have been hollering about a LAND WAR version of X-EPIC, and that certainly is another direct competitor with GW Marine stuff.

Dunno it might be happening right now and GW went crazy ('er!) because of it... dunno... but...

I have been feeling a few trimmers in the force recently. last time I felt them we got SCUM & VILLAINY... and the time before that we got RAIDER and GON GON ZILLAH!

GW didn't support Fantasy because people weren't buying as much because GW didn't support Fantasy...

Of course the real reason appears that GW simply did not have full guaranteed control of the Warhammer trademarks.

SCREW GW!!! FFS... I got out of their crap in 2000... dam-them... and everybody that looks like 'em!

GOOD ON YOU FFG... IT'S A GOOD RIDDANCE!

Looking at the list of games that are part of the license, it is more than Warhammer. Talisman, Fury of Dracula, and Blood Bowl are pretty big hits. Luckily, I have FoD 2nd, so not in a major rush to get 3rd, but I know a friend who was big into Talisman. Time to pick up some games before they are mucho $$$

Translation: "We are sick of GW's crap so were not working with them anymore, but were saying it nicely"

I don't think "crap" drives business decisions as much as some people think. It's more likely, "We can't hit profitability margins with the license fee GW is insisting on."

It was a mutually beneficial arrangement until it wasn't.

Probably not. If they can profit on products paying for the Star Wars license, then they can make money on the 40K license.

This may be a priority shift for one of the two companies. FFG might be planning to double down on Star Wars, or GW is bringing more of their license back in house. In the end, assets are finite. For every writer/designer you have working on one project, that's other projects you aren't working on. We know that GW almost doubled its design staff the last two years, which is why new books and new armies have been slamming the shelves (whereas before there was a 4-5 year turnaround on new codex books and such). Before that, they just didn't have enough in-house assets to cover every project (hence why fringe armies like SIsters of Battle never got new minis or "real" codex updates).

FFG may also have decided that the cost of the 40K license didn't make sense for their future business strategies. To make money on license products, you either have to have really low production costs, or sell lots of product. FFG may have noticed a drop-off on their sales of 40K-related material. RPGs especially have a problem with that, as the used market eats into your sales, and there's a finite amount of products you can reasonably create for it. Games Workshop's had that problem with 40K (and Fantasy before it was dumped). After 30 years, there were so many 40K models on the secondary markets their main competitor wasn't Warmahordes or Bolt Action, it was EBay, lol. They struggled for a long time to figure out what they could sell to their customers. Hence why there was that awful stretch of "Flyers! Superheavies! Big walkers! Giant walkers!". You didn't have one of those yet. If Dark Heresy and its kin are slowing down in sales, FFG may have just decided that the carrying costs for those products just don't make financial sense anymore.

It seems to be a rather sudden shift for FFG, though. They are cutting a successful LCG off before it got a chance to mature. Which is why I am really thinking GW was the problem here.

Fantasy, much loved as it was, was not making money. End of. GW is a business; if something isn't making money, kill it.

The vast majority of bitching about GW comes from Codex hoppers; "Tau are great now, buy an army". "****, Eldar are better, sell Tau and buy Eldar" etc.

Fantasy, as it was (from a business sense) had to die.

Here is the problem with your logic. This applies not only to fantasy gw, it applies to Games Workshop as a whole. It seems like there are some distinct problematic issues in their business model overall, at least from the bits and bits you get from the GW player base.

As I did dislike their model nearly 30 years ago already, I might be wrong on their current business model … if there were changes at all from the 90's to now. ;-)

Sorry, I've got to disagree with you.

Fantasy was the game that built GW. At the time it was an exciting world of Elves and Dwarves etc. The movies of the late '80's were full of fantasy ****. That changed, but a loyal fanbase remained.

Right up until the AoS makeover, GW tried to bring new players into Fantasy.

They brought out some fantastic models but people had lost interest in the game. Period.

The business model was ****, no arguments there; but I saw something on the TV last night which I've never seen, an advert for GW (albeit books).

So maybe, we'll get our games back.

Cheers

Baaa

I find the recent Black Knights are one of the best made fantasy models on this planet. The skeleton warriors and Crypt Guards are just superb. All models that where introduced in that perod of time were outstanding. I disliked the old Skeleton models where the skulls have facial expressions. I was so hoping for years and years for a new Orderly Knights box in that quality .... we will never see it ... Now I am sad.

Oh well ... all models that are filled with skulls are crap. I'm sorry for my foul language. It just needed to be said.

Translation: "We are sick of GW's crap so were not working with them anymore, but were saying it nicely"

Actually it's "GW are arseholes and consider their IP worth a ton of gold and an oil rig. On Mars."

Because G f#$cking W!

Let's put 5 minis instead of 10 and raise price by 5%!

Translation: "We are sick of GW's crap so were not working with them anymore, but were saying it nicely"

Actually it's "GW are arseholes and consider their IP worth a ton of gold and an oil rig. On Mars."

Because G f#$cking W!

Let's put 5 minis instead of 10 and raise price by 5%!

Ferengis

Fantasy, much loved as it was, was not making money. End of. GW is a business; if something isn't making money, kill it.

The vast majority of bitching about GW comes from Codex hoppers; "Tau are great now, buy an army". "****, Eldar are better, sell Tau and buy Eldar" etc.

Fantasy, as it was (from a business sense) had to die.

Here is the problem with your logic. This applies not only to fantasy gw, it applies to Games Workshop as a whole. It seems like there are some distinct problematic issues in their business model overall, at least from the bits and bits you get from the GW player base.

As I did dislike their model nearly 30 years ago already, I might be wrong on their current business model … if there were changes at all from the 90's to now. ;-)

Sorry, I've got to disagree with you.

Fantasy was the game that built GW. At the time it was an exciting world of Elves and Dwarves etc. The movies of the late '80's were full of fantasy ****. That changed, but a loyal fanbase remained.

Right up until the AoS makeover, GW tried to bring new players into Fantasy.

They brought out some fantastic models but people had lost interest in the game. Period.

The business model was ****, no arguments there; but I saw something on the TV last night which I've never seen, an advert for GW (albeit books).

So maybe, we'll get our games back.

Cheers

Baaa

Just saying: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

And what I mean with bad business model is not a consumer friendly one, but one that expands your business. Asmodee had 40% growth in revenue 2016 alone so far, their games are build around the very idea that beginners have a good experience. Which is kind of one of their major improvements in imperial assault over decent too.

That is the part of business model which I mean, a model which actively combats stagnation, because stagnation is the equivalent of death.

If you still disagree that is fine, I just had to argue to clear this up in case that there was a misunderstanding.

Just saying: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

For those of us interested but not "in the know", could you elaborate a bit?

I think it's probably a bugger deal for Games Workshop than it is for FFG, considering the number if people quitting GW's games and the rise and rise of X-Wing.

Fantasy, much loved as it was, was not making money. End of. GW is a business; if something isn't making money, kill it.

The vast majority of bitching about GW comes from Codex hoppers; "Tau are great now, buy an army". "****, Eldar are better, sell Tau and buy Eldar" etc.

Fantasy, as it was (from a business sense) had to die.

Here is the problem with your logic. This applies not only to fantasy gw, it applies to Games Workshop as a whole. It seems like there are some distinct problematic issues in their business model overall, at least from the bits and bits you get from the GW player base.

As I did dislike their model nearly 30 years ago already, I might be wrong on their current business model … if there were changes at all from the 90's to now. ;-)

Sorry, I've got to disagree with you.

Fantasy was the game that built GW. At the time it was an exciting world of Elves and Dwarves etc. The movies of the late '80's were full of fantasy ****. That changed, but a loyal fanbase remained.

Right up until the AoS makeover, GW tried to bring new players into Fantasy.

They brought out some fantastic models but people had lost interest in the game. Period.

The business model was ****, no arguments there; but I saw something on the TV last night which I've never seen, an advert for GW (albeit books).

So maybe, we'll get our games back.

Cheers

Baaa

Just saying: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

And what I mean with bad business model is not a consumer friendly one, but one that expands your business. Asmodee had 40% growth in revenue 2016 alone so far, their games are build around the very idea that beginners have a good experience. Which is kind of one of their major improvements in imperial assault over decent too.

That is the part of business model which I mean, a model which actively combats stagnation, because stagnation is the equivalent of death.

If you still disagree that is fine, I just had to argue to clear this up in case that there was a misunderstanding.

I have to disagree. New players have to be drilled and robbed and drilled and robbed and drilled and robbed again! New players need to prove themselves. They need to prove their readyness for the one ond only hobby. New players need to sacrifice a big portion of both their money and their life to be ready for GW!

Fantasy, much loved as it was, was not making money. End of. GW is a business; if something isn't making money, kill it.

The vast majority of bitching about GW comes from Codex hoppers; "Tau are great now, buy an army". "****, Eldar are better, sell Tau and buy Eldar" etc.

Fantasy, as it was (from a business sense) had to die.

Here is the problem with your logic. This applies not only to fantasy gw, it applies to Games Workshop as a whole. It seems like there are some distinct problematic issues in their business model overall, at least from the bits and bits you get from the GW player base.

As I did dislike their model nearly 30 years ago already, I might be wrong on their current business model … if there were changes at all from the 90's to now. ;-)

Sorry, I've got to disagree with you.

Fantasy was the game that built GW. At the time it was an exciting world of Elves and Dwarves etc. The movies of the late '80's were full of fantasy ****. That changed, but a loyal fanbase remained.

Right up until the AoS makeover, GW tried to bring new players into Fantasy.

They brought out some fantastic models but people had lost interest in the game. Period.

The business model was ****, no arguments there; but I saw something on the TV last night which I've never seen, an advert for GW (albeit books).

So maybe, we'll get our games back.

Cheers

Baaa

I find the recent Black Knights are one of the best made fantasy models on this planet. The skeleton warriors and Crypt Guards are just superb. All models that where introduced in that perod of time were outstanding. I disliked the old Skeleton models where the skulls have facial expressions. I was so hoping for years and years for a new Orderly Knights box in that quality .... we will never see it ... Now I am sad.

Oh well ... all models that are filled with skulls are crap. I'm sorry for my foul language. It just needed to be said.

I always loved a lot of the Fantasy models, Wood Elves in particular (for no fathomable reason) but never actully liked the game.

And as much as I love X-Wing, anyone that tries to compare the quality of miniature with what GW produces is smoking some really bad stuff.

Cheers

Baaa

I think it's probably a bugger deal for Games Workshop than it is for FFG, considering the number if people quitting GW's games and the rise and rise of X-Wing.

Yes, as simple as it is - but thats it..

And as much as I love X-Wing, anyone that tries to compare the quality of miniature with what GW produces is smoking some really bad stuff.

Not X-Wing. Rune Wars.

Not super surprising. FFG directly competing with Warhammer Age of Sigmar with their Runewars miniatures game was kind of a signal, along with GW increasing the number of tie-in boardgames they have been putting out. I didn't realize Fury of Dracula was a GW IP, sad to see that go. I feel bad for the Conquest players out there too

I was talking with a local shop owner last weekend. He was telling me that the LCG card gaming thing is drying up too...at least in his area. I think you may see some more drops, maybe no wholesale IP, but definitely pieces of it.

GW on the other hand. Man they make their own world and live in it.

Just saying: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

For those of us interested but not "in the know", could you elaborate a bit?

That was a bad time....

Cheers

Baaa

Just saying: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

For those of us interested but not "in the know", could you elaborate a bit?

I'm bot sure what SEApocalypse wants to say but I would say LotR was a good game and cheaper than 40k/WHF, yes there were many hating it because it took space in the WD and work time from the designers and some say the price for the license was way prices for other stuff was increased.

But as said I liked it and I also liked War of the Rings the mass battle system for LotR yes they were not perfect if I remember heroes were a little to strong but it was fun. Then in typical GW fashion GW had to halve the amount of miniatures in the box but did not halve the price and with the Hobbit it just got more expensive and some would say that the quality of the character models was getting worse.

Just saying: The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring (2001)

For those of us interested but not "in the know", could you elaborate a bit?

That was a bad time....

A dark time? Emperor took over, killed all the Jedi bad?

Fantasy, much loved as it was, was not making money. End of. GW is a business; if something isn't making money, kill it.

The vast majority of bitching about GW comes from Codex hoppers; "Tau are great now, buy an army". "****, Eldar are better, sell Tau and buy Eldar" etc.

Fantasy, as it was (from a business sense) had to die.

Here is the problem with your logic. This applies not only to fantasy gw, it applies to Games Workshop as a whole. It seems like there are some distinct problematic issues in their business model overall, at least from the bits and bits you get from the GW player base.

As I did dislike their model nearly 30 years ago already, I might be wrong on their current business model … if there were changes at all from the 90's to now. ;-)

Sorry, I've got to disagree with you.

Fantasy was the game that built GW. At the time it was an exciting world of Elves and Dwarves etc. The movies of the late '80's were full of fantasy ****. That changed, but a loyal fanbase remained.

Right up until the AoS makeover, GW tried to bring new players into Fantasy.

They brought out some fantastic models but people had lost interest in the game. Period.

The business model was ****, no arguments there; but I saw something on the TV last night which I've never seen, an advert for GW (albeit books).

So maybe, we'll get our games back.

Cheers

Baaa

I find the recent Black Knights are one of the best made fantasy models on this planet. The skeleton warriors and Crypt Guards are just superb. All models that where introduced in that perod of time were outstanding. I disliked the old Skeleton models where the skulls have facial expressions. I was so hoping for years and years for a new Orderly Knights box in that quality .... we will never see it ... Now I am sad.

Oh well ... all models that are filled with skulls are crap. I'm sorry for my foul language. It just needed to be said.

I always loved a lot of the Fantasy models, Wood Elves in particular (for no fathomable reason) but never actully liked the game.

And as much as I love X-Wing, anyone that tries to compare the quality of miniature with what GW produces is smoking some really bad stuff.

Cheers

Baaa

Because its so awesome to see dozens of primer sprayed armies on the tables on GW night at the FLGS right?