I have a VERY low view of plaguarism, and things that border upon it. This includes using the name of something else to promote a product that is completely different. Fore xample the new versions of D&D, which are a different game, but use the D&D name to promote them. If you have a good game you shouldn't rely upon another game's popularity to sell your own, your own game should stand on it's own strength if it's actually any good. I don't think you should kill another game simply to rogue it's name for your own, it shows a lack of faith in the game in my opinion.

That's perhaps my #1 complaint against the new WHFRP.

However, it appears that a friend of mine has gotten the game and I am going to be giving it a chance next month. Looks like this game's one chance to either charm me...or not. So, (I'm NOT GOING TO SPEND MONEY ON THIS) with that in mind, any thing I should do in order to prep?

Sounds like you have resentments towards the game already. So my advise as far as prepping goes is just keep an open mind about it. If you go to the table with a chip on your shoulder about "game name ethics/principles" then you are just wasting your time, you won't have fun and you won't like it.

Also, hopefully, you will have a GM that knows the rules and can run it decently. If not...you won't be having much fun. It almost always comes down to the GM.

So hope to hear back from you after you played and here's hoping you have a lot of fun.

I have to agree with that sentiment, playing a game that you have a resentment towards is just a waste of your time. So the best prep you could do was maybe work on your mindset, now I'm not saying that you should be all "wow v3 is the best ever, I love you" some scepticism is healthy. Now with that said, buying the game and reading and understanding the rules is of course the best way to prepare for the game, going out and getting the adventures tool kit would be cool too, not needed, but its the cherry on top. Remember, just because something is a radical departure from what your used to does not mean that its bad, just different.

Merry Xmas.

I will add that Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay isn't the game resolution system, it is the setting and genre.

If the game resolution system is what you defined Warhammer as, then I would see that as a limited view.

-ashe-

GreyLord said:

I agree with you, but that is not the definition of plagiarism. However, that is just nitpicking, because we all get what you're trying to say. I recently had the opportunity to play in what I thought was the demo version of the game. Later it was explained to me that no, this was the full release version. I say that because I felt that the game was incredibly incomplete. I like WFRP. I’ve been playing it since 1st edition. But I am not a huge fan of its game mechanics. It was all about the setting for me. 1st edition was the most complete version of the game. 2nd edition got there but only after investing in a lot of supplements. Out of the box 3rd edition is weak sauce. I found the background material to be flimsy. The game mechanics are more streamlined than any other edition (although the rules are poorly edited), but the components (although very pretty) distracted more than contributed to the game experience. The custom dice did not tell the story any faster, easier or better than a pair of percentiles with modifiers, so I don’t know where those claims come from? My conclusion was that it was new and shiny, and a lot of people like that. If I was new to role-playing games, I might think that this was a neat introduction to the Old World setting. However, knowing what I know, this is just too lacking for me.

Good thing you're going into this with an open mind [/sarcasm].

I highly suspect you will have a miserable time and come back to write a gigantic post about how WFRP3 sucks and somehow is guilty of plagiarism, despite the fact that you obviously have no idea what that word really means based on your original post.

So we all greatly anticipate reading your anti-WFRP3 rant when you get back. [/more sarcasm]

WOW! If this is how the community preps someone to play WHRP I expect it WILL die an early death!

Talk about trying to scare players away instead of telling them how to prep for it. If I wasn't going in with an open mind I wouldn't even give it a chance.

What do you do at Demo games, any one who says, sure I'll give it a shot but I'm not too fond of what I've seen...

You just go ahead and tell them they needn't try and that they'll hate it anyways?

Actually, I'm being too harsh, about 50% of the thread seemed to be trying to be helpful saying go in with an open mind and other things, whilst the others seem to want to get me not to play. That mindset kind of irks me to tell the truth. However, I expect they'll interpret anything I say to just validate their opinion or something.

For the record, I think the new D&D is a great system and could have stood on it's own, I also think that they stole the Title so they could install a new system and get rid of another which may have been too much competition for theirs to be successful...IN MY OPINION.

I don't know if WFRP is a good system or terrible one yet. I won't till next month. However, laying it on the table, the biggest grudge against it is the same one I have against the NEW D&D versions. That doesn't mean it's a bad system or a good system, but I have just found out that I think at least two people would kick me from their tables just for that opinion....

Is that truly representative of the new WHRP community...to kick out new players before they try?

I hope would hope not. Here are some things I would like to know...when I say prep...will I need paper, will I need pencils, will I need soemthing to pass the time, how big a table will I need?

My friend bought the game. I'm the ONLY one that I know of thus far that has offered to play it and try it out, and in that regard I also will be the one hosting the event, and I am probably ALSO the one responsible for gathering any group or groups to play.

So I need to know what to prep for. I may hate it, I might like it, it will depend on what it's like when I play. Personally I've not been impressed thus far, but if someone already has a copy I'm not adverse to giving it a shot. I still dont' even know how many I'll get to play, it may only be a small group (as I think he only has one copy, and from what I gathered that restricts us to three or four players)?

Cant' figure out how to edit, was probably too harsh, as it was truly only ONE comment that truly set me off there. There were some helpful comments in the thread, and one incredibly UN HELPFUL, and discouraging one.

You got all the prep you need man.

1. Keep an open mind
2. If you're running it, prepare ahead of time and post here if you have rules questions.
3. Enjoy it like you would any other RPG

If it's a combat heavy scenario and you like the combat system, you'll like the game. Same goes with any other scenario type. If you don't go in looking for reasons to dislike it, you'll have fun. Take it for what it is - a flexible, rules light system, designed to encourage player and GM creativity.

GreyLord

I don't know what size table you have but the bigger the better, depending on the number of players attending. Paper/pencills?...I find that I hardly ever use them at all at my table but I would defenitely have some around (theres always some reason to have them at any rpg and depending on if you like/dislike some of the tokens/pieces in the game you can still revert to the oldie but goody paper and pencil to track certain things).

Have some type of box to roll in. A shitload of dice are going to fly around and you don't want to mix up the rolled dice with the other dice on the table or have them roll on to someone's play area. Cause yeah, there are alot of cards and tracking tokens laying around.

The new wfrp is very incomplete as far as warhammer goes. It does lack alot of the careers you are accustomed to, not much setting info, incomplete magic schools etc. As far as playing the game though, it has everything you need. So gathering a lot of supplies to play is not going to be an issue. You really don't need to prep for a session, except of course reading the rules and becoming familiar with them if you are GMing it. One bit of prep advice I can give if you are running the game...start setting it all up before the players get there. Have cards organized into different stacks accordingly, all the chits/tokens in neat different piles, put the puzzle tracking bars together. Don't have the players sitting around watching you put all this **** together, cause this is actually the slowest part of the game. The playing part is 100 mph. Don't even need the books during play (once you get familiar with the rules), you just...PLAY! Good Luck

OK sorry for that I did snide off and troll you a bit there, but in my defense I did think you where trolling yourself, we do get some rabid v2 players here who really just want to fume about everything being new.

A big table is good advice, characters take up more space than before on the playing surface, its both a boon and a bane (see what I did there), but I like it, my group has a tendency to slump around in sofas at a coffee table.

Secondly, prepare to be creative, just because an action doesn't have an action card doesn't mean that you can't do it and in a lot of cases you will get a situation where you will get a boon or a bane or a chaos star or what not and you need to describe what happens. Now all of this will make some more sense once you play, but you can find a dice symbol cheat sheet here. I allow my players to tell the story of what goes right and wrong, within the limits of reason of course, funny thing is that they are a lot meaner to themselves when they roll badly than I would ever have been to them. It really adds to the story element and allows you to do things with the game that you couldn't before. For example I had a combat encounter in my game involving two of my players (I have 4 in my group and it was no problem at all with the basic set) while an action/story element running with another player in another location so what I did was send off the two players with the 3rd inactive player to a corner and have them play out the combat while just listening in on them from time to time, gave the stats of the beastmen to the "inactive" and then they let the system help them tell their own little side story that they then got to retell to the two others later while I concentrated on the player who was in the middle of a story bit, everyone felt like they participated.

Third, if you don't want to splash out on the game right off the bat, and I can understand that you don't want to do that get the PDF's its 10 bucks for the books, you can read the rules with them and get a hang of the game without the cards and talents, even sketch out a basic character if you just get to borrow the career deck from your friend for 5 min. Also having the PDF's rock.

As for the plagiarism, a role playing game is in my opinion not defined by the rules that it uses, but by the setting, if you like the DnD4E rules then thats and option for you as well with a little rewriting to fit the setting, if done right it will still be the grim and dark adventures that you have come to know and love.

That said the new system is a very story/character driven system with elements of gamist in it, that means that if your group is not very thespian and more into the interactive simulation type game then its probably not for you. V2 was in the long run a much more power gamer game than v3 even if you do start out with a little more ooomph than in previous versions.

Welcome to v3 I hope it helps.

Merry xmas.

GreyLord said:

First off welcome.

Secondly, it's not plagurisim, they own a brand. Wizards owns DnD, they can make 100 different rule mechanics for it, it doesn't change it's DnD. That's really an absurd arguement to make and one I'm most intrigued with your defence of the previous system, an arguement you didn't make back when Wizards first radically overhauled the game in 2000.

Thirdly, the sales of pathfinder are no where near the sales of 4E, so they have nothing to fear from previous editions. Wizards went a different route because they saw the sales potential in new rules, and it was MUCH better sales potential that old rules. Pathfinder makes a living off of essentially "plagurism" because legally you can't copyright RPG rules, only the presentation. They used a loophole to find themselves a niche market (what their motivation against wotc is, well that could be a long list). If you wanted to make any arguement of plagurism in the hobby market I'd take it up with a company using 90% previously published rules, albeit legally (so technically not plaguirsm, although a heck of a copy/paste job).

Edition wars are inevitable as people have strong opions about what they like and hate, and want to spend their days convincing other fat nerds "They aren't having fun". The real truth is finding a game you love and playing it. If that's this great, if not, well there's other things out there.

Next, give the rules a couple once overs, then come back and ask specific questions. Everyone here wants to help. It's a more story oriented game than the simulationist and gamist systems on the market. Be prepared for more emphasis on plot.. Be prepared to be flexible and story oriented. IF you have previous material from other editions, all the better. That stuff can be incorporated, at least the fluff, and plot points.

As for the table, the game requires a large table space. I use a 6 foot by 5 foot space and can accomadate 6 players and myself. It's better as a small group game I admit. 6 Players is pushing it imo, but I had about 10 people dying to play and may have to start a second group as a result. The game doesn't restrict you to 3 players, that's just the number of basic cards in the set. So if you want more players you either share basic cards or buy a toolkit that adds another set of basics or buy another core set which is enough to add 3 more players.

Thanks, I was debating whether to have it on a small table, a normal size table or the giant table. If one only has the base game is that limited to four players? With 4 should I use the 4x3 foot table space or the 8X3 table space?

I'm only going to be a player as far as I know, but hosting, but from what I'm hearing I'll make sure the GM (owner of the game) will start setting up (would an hour be enough time or too much) prior to the game start.

Also, is this game condusive to snacks (aka, chips, drinks, etc.) at the table, or should I also set up side tables for them?

Thanks for the advice thus far.

With four players I think the 4x3 table should be sufficient. I found that by keeping away the cards that are not needed after character creation, that helped in freeing up a lot of space. This is somewhat affected by whether you guys are planning to run magic users (if you are not, you may not need to bring out the miscast decks, etc). Perhaps you could ask your gm how he is planning to set up the counters. If he has some sort of an efficient storage system such as counter boxes, etc, he will not require much space on the table.

During my first game, I took less than half an hour to set up the table, so I would say that assuming your gm knows which decks are for which, an hour is more than enough prep time.

Snacks and chips are fine, but with most games I would recommend drinks at the side. The reason for this is that this game has a lot of 'non-replacable' parts such as the various counters and the career cards, and you won't want to risk a career card getting soiled from a spilt drink.

Sinister said:

A little off topic, but I have to agree with you. The game seems to work a lot better with a tight group of 3 to 4 players rather than a large 'army' of adventurers. I ran it with two and the interaction was great.

To be honest with 6 players I would want a second box, but then again with 6 players I would have wanted at least a 2nd book as well. a 4x3 table should do the trick, especially if you keep the snacks off it. Also keep drinks off the table, a friend of mine messed up all of his set by spilling a pint of soda on the table during a game, he was a sad little donkey after that.

This is two 2.5 feet wide x 6 foot tables put together. This is what I game most RPGs on (unless running at the shop. You'll see 5 players spots on the table. I have room for a 6th (player was missing that night) on my left. Of course I'm using a dry erase board. That takes up some space but gives more visuals, players seem to like it.

There's no easy way to add a 7th player for sure. Granted if the players don't mind stacking cards you could get more mileage out of the space. However, I think the game really shines as a small group RPG, not a large group one, so that's why I've cut the group off at 6 players. I think the game would be brillant at 3-4.

I did buy a second core set and a toolkit so I have plenty of materials.

Snacks are a dangerous thing with this game, however by purchasing the cards sleeves, as I've done, you can miniumize the pop spillage being a huge issue.

Here's a picture of all the cards in their sleves and the wizards section.

THANKS! The pictures help along with the table dimensions help to figure out a LOT actually with spacing and what I'll need.

GreyLord said:

I disagree wih your analogy of D&D, mainly because roleplaying games are mostly about setting and game world than game mechanics. So there's nothing wrong with with the fourth version of D&D being called "D&D", because at the end of the day an RPG is supposed to be about story and setting, not any gimmicky game mechanics.

The same thing applies to WFRP. Just because version 2 and version 3 have different game mechanics, it doesn't mean that they are different games. As long as both games are situated in "Ye Olde World of Warhammer Fantasy Battles", there's nothing wrong with them both having the same name, and it doesn't really constitutes as plagiarism either.

So, with RPG's, keep in mind that game system and game setting are more often two different entities, even if certain game mechanics are purposefully designed to keep in touch with the setting for various reasons (think: sanity points in Call of Cthulhu), most roleplayers would agree that an RPG doesn't stand and fall with the system it uses, but rather the setting.

For character creation (and to keep the cards nice) I have them in individual binders based on what type of card they are, in those protective hobby card sleeves (you know, the 9 per page ones). I have a section for ranged attacks, melee, support, social, etc... The talent cards even fit in there sideways, and I have those organized by type. I have the little career ability cards in their specific little sleeves, and its easier to have careers drawn randomly from that than it is from the big career deck itself.

I have the basic actions (there are 8 of them - active defences, basic attacks, etc) in a 9 slot sheet which each player gets... Then they can just place tokens on the related slot when they use an ability. Their individual action cards or talent cards are in individual sleeves for them to play as needed.

No food or drinks at the table - it would essentially cost $100 dollars to replace any of the cards in the set.

The little miniatures aren't even really necessary, but they do provide a visual component for players used to that type of game.

The dice can be fun - and it can be fun to describe what the dice mean (aka "he tries to dodge but stumbles at the last moment, and your blow catches him in the side.")

There will always be someone who doesn't like a new edition - I wasn't a fan of 2e, for example. The best thing is to approach it with an open mind. This isn't plagarism, it's an attempt to revitalize a brand that was, if we're honest about it, not doing incredibly well. FFG had to offload their 2e books at $5 a pop each, even the big ones, and their store reported some still in stock at the end of the sale. I stocked up, for history/fluff/flavor purposes, but that's not the sign of a successful game system.

Ok, I am gonna come out and say it. The early stuff developed by Green Ronin was amazing. High production values. I also remember it being accused of having "too heroic" a cover and that players shouldn't expect to play slayers and wizards in it, big argument ensued and a lot of v1 people threw mud... Wait what is is about this game and getting the mud throwing going? Anyway, the last bits that FFG did, not so good, the career compendium, Shadows and so on where a little under produced when it came to the fluff side of things and too many things where turned into mechanics.