In regards to Dengar, he would be easily fixed by adding a blue or green die to his attack, I believe that will likely be the way they fix him, if they do. Explosive arnaments on him is nice though and at seven points he isn't that expensive. An extra die for sure, that would make him really good and make it so he could get a couple of shots of, until he disintegrates

Please make that happen in the FAQ

This is a decent fix actually, I'd even swap the +2 accuracy for a blue die (and maybe a targeting computer)

Or you could have him (like in the story) have a rule where the first time he dies, keep him on the table and he regains his full health, so he gets really 16 health to punch through, and gives him time to do some damage up close and personal. Kind of like MHD's command card ability.

My problem is that they've almost wasted the opportunity to fix these though, as they have already printed out Chewie, Dengar, etc alternate art cards which would have been perfect for reprinting or adding/changing something like they did with the Rebel Sabs and Royal Guards.

If anyone's interested my two Han+Chewie games are up now on Youtube, figured it might be relevant to some of the conversation here:

I get what you're saying, I'm just saying I'd be comfortable playing most top lists out there with my Han and Chewie list and feeling I can compete, I think a lot of people just seem to play what the internet says is good and not try different things out.

Elite stormtroopers are good, no question, but they're not far and above everything, the game is pretty well balanced in that respect.

I just worry about lists like this proposing big changes as people see them and assume that awesome characters like boba, Han, Chewie etc. Aren't worth putting in their lists so they've never played them in a lot of cases.

I'd say they're fine, they're not the best, they're not half bad either though

What would you say is a bad figure/card?

I'm not sure to be honest, fantastic question though. I initially jumped for Kayn Somos but then although he's overcosted he can do some work in the right lists.

I think Saska is really tough to get value out of, but again she brings an option that you just can't get elsewhere (Merc in Rebel lists) I've seen people doing great things with Mak, Loku, even Verena and Biv, although I don't think either of those last two are "worth their points"

I think if I'm to go for the "worst" card in the game atm I'd say Dengar, he's poorly designed in my opinion as his abilities revolve around applying conditions that that he can't apply because he can't punch the damage through.

I'd maybe go as far as to say you can make any card in this game work though, you just need to be creative in building around it.

I'd be happy to try that theory too if you've a suggestion for what you feel is the worst card in the game atm?

I honestly believe the game is in a great spot at the moment balance wise.

I was asking because I wanted a little insight in how you are rating characters, I feel you have a little to optimistic view at times. You use the phrase "you can make it work" a lot and to me not only is it redundant (any card in your list you want to "make work") but when that is said it translates to me as this characters power level isn't up to snuff BUT if you try hard sometimes you can pull it off. I personally think the "work" that has to go into making certain characters effective is just not worth the cost of entry and that optimistic outlook while great to overcome the pessimistic outlook that runs rampant on these dam forums doesn't give less informed players an accurate view. I am not attacking you in any way I like your posts and your content (thank you) just providing my own 2 cents.

If anyone's interested my two Han+Chewie games are up now on Youtube, figured it might be relevant to some of the conversation here:

you posted as i was typing my post. Now I have to watch it and edit my post later lol.

It's entirely possible I'm being too optimistic krzykoopa, I really enjoy the game so probably defend it a little too adamantly at times

I think there's a point at which high health/defence characters become worth it when facing lots of small attacks, and that at the moment that's the kind of meta we're playing in.

I think some figures are well suited to that (Weiss, Boba, Han, Chewie fit here for me, probably Bossk too although he's much more effective) and that although they probably aren't "worth their points" - that is irrelevant if your opponent can't score points by killing them as they only need to gain a small number of points and you win by not dying.

Just a view anyway but I completely get that not everyone shares my opinions

Rich

It's entirely possible I'm being too optimistic krzykoopa, I really enjoy the game so probably defend it a little too adamantly at times

I think there's a point at which high health/defence characters become worth it when facing lots of small attacks, and that at the moment that's the kind of meta we're playing in.

I think some figures are well suited to that (Weiss, Boba, Han, Chewie fit here for me, probably Bossk too although he's much more effective) and that although they probably aren't "worth their points" - that is irrelevant if your opponent can't score points by killing them as they only need to gain a small number of points and you win by not dying.

Just a view anyway but I completely get that not everyone shares my opinions

Rich

Whats your opinion on Gaarkhan and Biv?

Biv seems decent enough to be considered at times, the Hunter keyword helps in that respect with "Primary Target" now, and with more coming down the road I expect with Jabba's Realm. I've had good fun playing him and he can be really effective both taking a beating at times, and putting out some hurt with his melee then shooting attack. He's showcased quite well in a match against me actually (Battle Report 12)

I wouldn't think to run him in most lists right now but I'd be up for trying him again.

Gaarkhan I probably would agree needs something doing to bring him up to scratch, I think he "can" put out some hurt with charge and attack, however really you're almost always better just buying two Wookies for your points...

Biv seems decent enough to be considered at times, the Hunter keyword helps in that respect with "Primary Target" now, and with more coming down the road I expect with Jabba's Realm. I've had good fun playing him and he can be really effective both taking a beating at times, and putting out some hurt with his melee then shooting attack. He's showcased quite well in a match against me actually (Battle Report 12)

I wouldn't think to run him in most lists right now but I'd be up for trying him again.

Gaarkhan I probably would agree needs something doing to bring him up to scratch, I think he "can" put out some hurt with charge and attack, however really you're almost always better just buying two Wookies for your points...

With Gaarkhan I had a crazy round where he went off and turned the game around I will document how later but I wouldn't want to rely on recreating that because it was so unlikely and up to that point he was a liability almost. Biv I like I just need to play more with him. It seems he is unanimously hated on here and I don't exactly understand why.

Biv seems decent enough to be considered at times, the Hunter keyword helps in that respect with "Primary Target" now, and with more coming down the road I expect with Jabba's Realm. I've had good fun playing him and he can be really effective both taking a beating at times, and putting out some hurt with his melee then shooting attack. He's showcased quite well in a match against me actually (Battle Report 12)

I wouldn't think to run him in most lists right now but I'd be up for trying him again.

Gaarkhan I probably would agree needs something doing to bring him up to scratch, I think he "can" put out some hurt with charge and attack, however really you're almost always better just buying two Wookies for your points...

With Gaarkhan I had a crazy round where he went off and turned the game around I will document how later but I wouldn't want to rely on recreating that because it was so unlikely and up to that point he was a liability almost. Biv I like I just need to play more with him. It seems he is unanimously hated on here and I don't exactly understand why.

I can't fit any more Wookies in this list

Wookie Warrior x4, so I add Gaarkhan and he works pretty well in an all wookie list. Some of the Brawler cards are mean if you can crowd you opponent and surround him. True, Gideon, 3PO and some upgrade cards like Diplomatic Mission, Rebel High Command etc are maybe more useful, but Gaarkan can really put the hurt on with his charge ability, then assault for a second attack.

The problem with Biv is he never gets to do his Close and Personal more than once. It's even difficult to get it off once, if your opponent is paying attention. If your opponent rolls white dice well, you may not get damage, causing you to waste your close and personal, but then you're surrounded and die. My black dice hate me more than my white dice too and maybe I should stand back and just shoot with him and ignore the ability, I just really don't like the personality they portray him as, seems like he should have more than 8 health.

Biv seems decent enough to be considered at times, the Hunter keyword helps in that respect with "Primary Target" now, and with more coming down the road I expect with Jabba's Realm. I've had good fun playing him and he can be really effective both taking a beating at times, and putting out some hurt with his melee then shooting attack. He's showcased quite well in a match against me actually (Battle Report 12)

I wouldn't think to run him in most lists right now but I'd be up for trying him again.

Gaarkhan I probably would agree needs something doing to bring him up to scratch, I think he "can" put out some hurt with charge and attack, however really you're almost always better just buying two Wookies for your points...

With Gaarkhan I had a crazy round where he went off and turned the game around I will document how later but I wouldn't want to rely on recreating that because it was so unlikely and up to that point he was a liability almost. Biv I like I just need to play more with him. It seems he is unanimously hated on here and I don't exactly understand why.

I can't fit any more Wookies in this list

Wookie Warrior x4, so I add Gaarkhan and he works pretty well in an all wookie list. Some of the Brawler cards are mean if you can crowd you opponent and surround him. True, Gideon, 3PO and some upgrade cards like Diplomatic Mission, Rebel High Command etc are maybe more useful, but Gaarkan can really put the hurt on with his charge ability, then assault for a second attack.

The problem with Biv is he never gets to do his Close and Personal more than once. It's even difficult to get it off once, if your opponent is paying attention. If your opponent rolls white dice well, you may not get damage, causing you to waste your close and personal, but then you're surrounded and die. My black dice hate me more than my white dice too and maybe I should stand back and just shoot with him and ignore the ability, I just really don't like the personality they portray him as, seems like he should have more than 8 health.

If your opponent rolls white dice well you aren't gonna get damage with most characters lol. I have to do more testing with him, I only played a few games and first game he died super fast (my fault, overextended) the second game he busted down doors put deeps on the Dionaga and held a zone so good. The 3rd game I started to see the sweet spot like when to go for up close and personal and move away into cover how to position him right etc. His command card (for me) never shines in the way I want it to when I use it. Overall I am not quite there with him yet.

I taught my friend how to play 2 weeks ago with a list of all Wookies. Gar, Chewy, Warriors. He loved it and other then the 1st game where he was learning skirmish he played it pretty decent. The Wookie cards being able to be played on any fig any turn can be so potent.

I feel like for Gaarkhan to be competitively priced he needs to be about 6 points. I'd consider playing him there.

My reasoning: He would then cost only 2 more points than a regular wookiee that costs 4 points. He has 1 less health. Fine. He has a built in block. He can focus for a surge or pierce 1/bleed. He can charge and he can perform multiple attacks each turn after he's taken any damage. Not sure how often his command card will actually be usable (you have to have gone that round already, and be attacked where you take 3 or more damage in that attack but you have a built in block and roll black - so Elite stormies will more than half the time not be able to put on more than 2 points of damage in one shot on Gaarkhan I'm guessing - just basing this off one of the most common enemies you'll encounter). I'd argue he still needs a couple more health points for an individual unit at 6 cost too though even with that block, but maybe it's worth it because he can do the extra attacks.

I think to really make him shine, even if he came down to 6 pts you'd want to run MHD-19 in the list to help balance that fine line between Gaarkhan needs to be damaged to be great and you don't want him to die

Anyways, I'd be tempted to try him more if he was 6 points instead of 8. Way too many things you can get for 8 points (or less) in Rebels. I know that playing more wookiee command cards makes him even better, but honestly, I wouldn't want to play more than Gaarkhan at 6 points and one set of regular wookiees in a list because of the natural uphill battle melee characters face in this game right now. This limits how many wookiee cards I'd put into a command deck. And again makes me less likely to run him.

Gaarkhan is actually pretty good. He can move and attack in one action, and once wounded he can to two attacks. He basically gets a move and 2 attacks.
He can also self focus (which he desperately needs only have a 2 dice attack). And with a yellow dice, once he is focused, he can probably keep that focus train going.

He's also benefits from the wookie command cards more than other wookies. His one gives you a whole other activation. Roar is great because it doesn't waste an attack action.

Provoke is pretty fun for melee guardians too.

His problem is his other surge ability is weak and he's probably a little bit too squishy being a front line warrior.

He could probably do with one less point cost or with 2 more health points. Or maybe a recover.

The other issue is you want to have more brawlers and wookies (which becomes an expensive and tricky melee list) to get the most benefit from the command cards, which does push the cost up... he probably doesn't synergize as well as some other characters.

I don't think he's weak, but he is certainly difficult to use well. I see people often use him (and characters like him) too aggressively or without support. Then they get easily picked off and die.

Gaarkhan is actually pretty good. He can move and attack in one action, and once wounded he can to two attacks. He basically gets a move and 2 attacks.

He can also self focus (which he desperately needs only have a 2 dice attack). And with a yellow dice, once he is focused, he can probably keep that focus train going.

He's also benefits from the wookie command cards more than other wookies. His one gives you a whole other activation. Roar is great because it doesn't waste an attack action.

Provoke is pretty fun for melee guardians too.

His problem is his other surge ability is weak and he's probably a little bit too squishy being a front line warrior.

He could probably do with one less point cost or with 2 more health points. Or maybe a recover.

The other issue is you want to have more brawlers and wookies (which becomes an expensive and tricky melee list) to get the most benefit from the command cards, which does push the cost up... he probably doesn't synergize as well as some other characters.

I don't think he's weak, but he is certainly difficult to use well. I see people often use him (and characters like him) too aggressively or without support. Then they get easily picked off and die.

He's definitely not the worst of the original/wave 1 uniques. But when they came out with wookiee warriors it definitely made it so that Gaarkhan isn't really worth paying 8 for when you get 12 more health, another unit, points denial, etc from regular wookiee warriors.

I like the idea of a recover mechanic on Gaarkhan - he'd be super intriguing and unique in the game if he had something like "bloodlust - when you attack, recover half of the damage you do to an enemy figure rounded down". That would be sweet because then you'd have this mechanic where you can rush him into some tricky situations with more bravado, and you're actively trying to balance keeping some damage on him to get two attacks every turn but not get too close to death. I also feel like that would give him more likelihood of ever getting his command card off since he has to take a huge hit to use it. I think I'd take him for 8 points with bloodlust, because then you have a mechanic that actively rewards good strategy and can help Gaarkhan be able to make himself come closer to wookiee warrior efficiency if you play well with him.

Calling it "bloodlust" might not work well with the theme though. Maybe have to call it warrior's healing or something

Ill try not to changing the existing cards:

Chewie, Han, C3P0 and Jyn + 6 points is actually not a bad list. In this list, those four characters have to stay together and Jyn becomes indestructible. As soon as a Map has more than one Objective, it gets complicated. For the extra 6 Points there are multiple options - R2D2+ Gideon, three Alliance Smugglers, Lando+Heroic Effort... Since the list lacks mobility, but obliberates in direct confrontation, I guess it's hard to balance that out. Some extra Points from a cheaper Han/Chewie and it might be too effective (actually, if it was one point cheaper, you could add in Obi Wan and contest a Terminal with him alone).

Smuggler Command cards have a low power level, so that is also a way to push those characters and this list.

In general, the game needs more Area Of Effect Damage. The Bantha Rider is actually a step in the right direction. There needs to be more area damage options - that weakens low hitpoints Trooper lists. If unmitigated AOE Damage is more common, High HP Characters like Chewie and Vader become more interesting. They could even target the "Trooper" Keyword.

Saska: To make Saska worthwhile, you need Scum units that combine in insane ways with Rebel Units. Since Rebels have more white dice than Scum, it might be a figure that gives a bonus to white dice figures. Or a Rebell Upgrade that combines with Scum Figures. Also, another cheap unit that has Saskas "field a Scum Unit" Ability might be important for more consistency. Perhaps one of the Scum Heroes in the next Expansion will help her see the light of the day.

Biv: Not enough Hunter Opions in the Rebell Faction. Might become more interesting with the Alliance Rangers – it seems to me that they bring some Hunter Cards with them.

Since Rebels have more white dice than Scum, it might be a figure that gives a bonus to white dice figures.

The risk there is that you might make already decent Scum units like the Nexu and Hired Guns too powerful within the Scum faction

I agree smuggler cards are too weak... they have some strong abilities but most are quite expensive and rebels already struggle with expensive command cards from all the unique heroes.

I think there also need to be some more hunter cards. They have some cool ones, but they all take actions and require adjacency. That simply doesn't compete with lots of other cards. Primary target and Dirty Trick are the only good ones. Price on their heads should be 0pts.

Biv, I think he just needs a slight health bump. He's an "in your face" brawler but just too squishy (8 health) for 9pts.

Saska just really needs her grenade to be either a bit stronger or not hurt her. Right now, she has 1/3 chance to do nothing but hurt herself. Another point of speed probably wouldn't hurt either. She does need to be more expensive because of the built in temporary alliance, but she simply has no use other than that.

So, I tried to build a smuggler squad last night after a talk with a friend who might get into the game. Then I looked a bit at Diplomatic Mission and thought about this with Han. Han has cunning, so using Diplomatic Mission on him, would grant him another Block as well. Make him the forerunner and use of -> abilities on your cards (lots of Leader cards requires actions). He'll be the meatshield that rarely attacks (or only when not under pressure), but if your opponent attempt to attack him, getting the free shot off seems much more possible with a Surge cancel and a Block before rolling dice.

It may, or may not be good, but at least it was an interesting thought to use Diplo a bit more aggressively like that.

but he has a great shot, so you really need Han to shoot, not be doing actions. Dip. Mission came with Leia, but you'll never see it on Leia bc she needs to to Battlefield Leadership to recover and kill enemies. You could argue that Gideon is UNDERpriced compared to almost all other deployment cards. I would argue that he is the best buy (against the logic of the designers even) out of every other card in the game because of what he provides. I can't see a Rebel or Scum list at this point trying to be competitive that doesn't include him.

As to Smuggler cards, most of them were early additions and overcosted and/or required an action. Some of the newer ones are pretty good, Thankfully, they've added some smugglers to the Merc faction, so they are justified in being included in a deck.

Smuggled supplies I use quite often, black market prices is great, but there are too many other competing cards often. I have used it with my hired guns or ugnaught, The others have the nasty habit of requiring several points, AND an action AND being adjacent to an enemy/object. Having a smuggler adjacent to an enemy is like having a dead smuggler. It doesn't happen unless you've lost the game.

I believe just from seeing the spoiled cards that Hunters, Brawlers and Creatures are getting some cool command cards (Hunter card that erases a defense die for 2pts !! since we were talking about White Dice in the other topic) Hopefully Jabba's Realm will come with something useful as well. I see there are some any figure and any merc figure cards as well for cheap.