Hello

Thanks for your help. I need some advices on the squad rule.

The leader can manage up to 11 peoples in his squad, ok. They do not roll for initiative.

First, I suppose the soldiers can act before or after the leader? the GM chooses?

Second, if I have 8 soldiers, do I need to use them all as a one minion group? or can I spread them in two or more sub-group?

for exemple, my leader will fire then 4 soldiers will fire and the last 4 soldiers will fire at another guy, then the squad turn is completed.

Thanks

Minions in a squad do not get their own actions or slots in the initiative (unless you spend a Triumph, which can be used to grant them an immediate attack with max 5 skill ranks - look at the table).

The leader of the squad takes their turn as normal but if they are leading a squad/squadron they get two benefits.

1. The player can choose to redirect any hits to the leader to a Minion in the squad (killing or incapacitating the Minion).

2. The leader can make a Leadership check as a Maneuver to put the squad in a formation - granting the leader the ongoing benefits of that formation if they succeed.

If the minions break out of the squad for any reason then they are formed back into Minion groups (GM discretion on how many per group) and while they don't get a slot in the initiative they do get to a turn after the leader.

Also, attacks targeting the squad work as normal - for example auto-fire Blast can be activated to target the Minions (in which case their Soak is applied and they take Wounds normally as a Minion group would).

The minions and the leader essentially become one single character in much the same way that a minion group is essentially one character.

Ok... very strange I didn't understood the rule like that actually. It seems strange because the leader is now protected but it's like none of the minions are doing anything... they just sit and wait to get killed? ^^

I have to say I won't use it cause for me it is far more powerfull to make the 10 soldiers fire at my players than just sitting and watching the leader doing all the job .

Thanks for your help

Ok... very strange I didn't understood the rule like that actually. It seems strange because the leader is now protected but it's like none of the minions are doing anything... they just sit and wait to get killed? ^^

I have to say I won't use it cause for me it is far more powerfull to make the 10 soldiers fire at my players than just sitting and watching the leader doing all the job .

Thanks for your help

Well there's some details that you might have missed.

- The Leader also gets bonuses based on formations. So Boost on attacks for Close, Increased Blast and Auto-fire cost for Dig in, and the ability to Use Leadership instead of a skill with Specialist.

- Passing off a hit to a minion is based on a Per-Hit model, not a Per-Damage. So even if the Player swings in with a massive hit that does 50 damage... If the Leader passes it off, only one single minion falls over. (Great for use against DPSers and Vehicles vs People)

- The Triumph for a Squad attack is on anything. If the leader and squad are rolling Athletics to climb over a wall, and Triumph: They can shoot. Hacking a terminal: They shoot. Negotiating over the price of pressed Bantha horn soup: They shoot. So if the encounter requires more than standing and shooting, the guys without a squad will find they are at a possible disadvantage since they (usually) can't take two actions per turn.

So, not a perfect thing for every occasion, but useful in some situations. Outside of that something like "Imperial Valor" might be more what you want.

Ok... very strange I didn't understood the rule like that actually. It seems strange because the leader is now protected but it's like none of the minions are doing anything... they just sit and wait to get killed? ^^

I have to say I won't use it cause for me it is far more powerfull to make the 10 soldiers fire at my players than just sitting and watching the leader doing all the job .

The point of it is it's narrative, you can describe it any way you like. The soldiers could be doing the shooting, they just use the leader's dice pool to do it.

Ok... very strange I didn't understood the rule like that actually. It seems strange because the leader is now protected but it's like none of the minions are doing anything... they just sit and wait to get killed? ^^

I have to say I won't use it cause for me it is far more powerfull to make the 10 soldiers fire at my players than just sitting and watching the leader doing all the job .

The point of it is it's narrative, you can describe it any way you like. The soldiers could be doing the shooting, they just use the leader's dice pool to do it.

Which works, until you have a corrupt politician / CEO wrangling a horde of security goons to his side... then you have, like, 5-10 guys with blaster rifles and one Nemesis with a stun-only hold-out blaster, and all of them are bound by the rules of said hold-out blaster.

To me, this is absurd. I've never really liked that a volley of powerful weapons only contribute a boost die (and even then, only in one formation) but otherwise are stuck using the stats of a weaker weapon... and one that only accounts for one of their number.

Then again, I have general problems with the Squad rules, since I've planned the future of a campaign or two I run to be very "military leadership" oriented, with the PCs leading and maintaining Squads. In that quasi-strategy game manner, they're very limited rules. A realistic military squad has a specialist or two, and it was my intention to let the players upgrade their squads in said way, giving them a single missile tube or such - or even something as simple as giving them better, but still homogenized, weapons in return for credits.

But, a disorderly rabble of Sathari rebels with slugthrower rifles and limited skill provides the exact same benefits to a PC Squad leader as a crack team of Rebel operatives, armed with heavy blaster rifles and trained specifically by the PC. Forget the notion of "upgrading" squads or giving them specialist equipment when even that simple issue isn't resolved.

Of course, I have heftier requirements from the Squad rules. For most people, they're fine - to give the Leadership junkie a bit of a mechanical boon while adding to their narrative, or give the Big Bad some ablative armor, the rules work great. I'm just picky.

The purpose of the squad rules is to protect the leader.

If you want them to have more offensive power at their disposal then you can put more minions in the scene which don't join the squad who focus fire on the PCs (and/or throw rivals into the scene).

It works narratively and mechanically.

You can also have the leader spend Triumph (on any check during Combat) to give the squad minions an immediate attack.

So, scathing tirade and spending Triumph to also get an attack?

You can also have the leader spend Triumph (on any check during Combat) to give the squad minions an immediate attack.

So, scathing tirade and spending Triumph to also get an attack?

Don't see why not...

I think I will stay on my first understanding of the rules, i.e. the Leader and 10 soldiers form a squad. The standard minions rule will apply inside the squad. So at the Leader initiative slot, he will act and his 10 minion group just after (or just before).

Not all rules satisfy every GMs, so no problem, thanks for everyone advices

- Passing off a hit to a minion is based on a Per-Hit model, not a Per-Damage. So even if the Player swings in with a massive hit that does 50 damage... If the Leader passes it off, only one single minion falls over. (Great for use against DPSers and Vehicles vs People)

Really? I have missed this. I thought that they worked just like a minion group with damage spilling over to the next schlub in the group. I'm not sure why they would make this work differently.

Ok... very strange I didn't understood the rule like that actually. It seems strange because the leader is now protected but it's like none of the minions are doing anything... they just sit and wait to get killed? ^^

I have to say I won't use it cause for me it is far more powerfull to make the 10 soldiers fire at my players than just sitting and watching the leader doing all the job .

The point of it is it's narrative, you can describe it any way you like. The soldiers could be doing the shooting, they just use the leader's dice pool to do it.

Which works, until you have a corrupt politician / CEO wrangling a horde of security goons to his side... then you have, like, 5-10 guys with blaster rifles and one Nemesis with a stun-only hold-out blaster, and all of them are bound by the rules of said hold-out blaster.

To me, this is absurd.

It is, but it is absurd for another reason all together as well. No security group will be lead by a civilian. What you want as GM is to give the corrupt senator imperial valor give him a minion group as escort. No need for squad rules here.

Let me give you an example of chaining the rules and how they help to simplify table flow while bloating up the rules.

Example:

Skywalker is the commander of the 501st legion. He has a few ranks in leadership and improved field commander from the peacekeeper tree.

He orders his Captain to form up a squad and storm the front, while Ahsoka should use the diversion to bomb her way into the flanks of the enemy automated plant. Instead of bothering for specialist on each of those squads, you now just make leadership rolls for explosives, etc while at the same time make sure those key characters are safe AND provide their minions horrendous bonus in defense from their squad leaders. Furthermore you can form one squad for Rex and let him use another minion groups or squads lead by Rivals to flank his own squad and increase the action efficiency while still maintaining safety for named characters. You have a tool to provide basically plot armor as needed. It's not the only tool, it fits mainly for combat characters, which fits as well the theme of being a squad or squadron leader. Imperial valor is for hiding behind a wall of dead bards minions.

Oh and speaking of hiding: As mentioned this works the other way around as well, Obi-Wan would form up a squad just to reflect all the incoming fire while advancing for his troops, generating triumphs as goes for them to act on.

You get vastly different narrative situations covered with the toolset of different options. For a commando group of only named characters you go along with just field commander and similar talents to build your squad. No need for squad rules in that case.

- Passing off a hit to a minion is based on a Per-Hit model, not a Per-Damage. So even if the Player swings in with a massive hit that does 50 damage... If the Leader passes it off, only one single minion falls over. (Great for use against DPSers and Vehicles vs People)

Really? I have missed this. I thought that they worked just like a minion group with damage spilling over to the next schlub in the group. I'm not sure why they would make this work differently.

You made me doubt myself so I went back and double checked....

Yep! Per-hit!

Dunno why exactly (maybe Kapple will say something) but that is how it is. Probably so starfighters won't get wiped by a really lucky turbo laser blast or torpedo barrage... Either way it's a really handy option for keeping players alive and for keeping appropriate bad guys around.

I think I will stay on my first understanding of the rules, i.e. the Leader and 10 soldiers form a squad. The standard minions rule will apply inside the squad. So at the Leader initiative slot, he will act and his 10 minion group just after (or just before).

Not all rules satisfy every GMs, so no problem, thanks for everyone advices

I think in a lot of situations just keeping them separate with the squad leader being more narrative is more appropriate when talking NPCs. NPC "leaders" like the Imperial Officer and Stormtrooper Sgt. have abilities that apply to nearby allies and minion groups, and not to attached squads, so squadding up properly will actually weaken them by taking those abilities away.

The place where squad rules really work for NPCs is situations where you've got the players in a vehicle vs. dismounted NPCS, or need to keep one specific NPC Rival or Nemesis alive for some reason and applying talents or abilities like "Imperial Valor" won't work. Also those Specific Rivals/Nems should be plenty dangerous on their own, or be extremely proficient in the skill set they'll be using most in the encounter so as to regularly generate triumphs.

So like, if you have Players that are melee/saber monsters you need to slow down, Imperial Valor won't work because it's a ranged option only, and the players are probably generating enough damage (+Breach/Pierce) that they can easily cut through even large minion groups with ease. Squadding up in that case makes more sense because even if the double bladed Ataru ubermaster swings into them and scores a 12 damage Linked 2 Breach hit, he'll only remove 3 minions, as opposed to the 7 minions he'll down using normal damage modeling.

Or if you have a Stormtrooper encounter made of up a Sgt., Several minion groups, and a Rival Specialist, it might make sense to have the Specialist squad up with 2 or 3 troopers in a nest or strongpoint. The Specialist already has something crazy like a repeating blaster, missile tube, repeater, flechette launcher, or what have you, so the supporting fire from a couple squaddies isn't going to be a huge boon for him. But the ability to increase the cost of Blast and Auto-fire against him, and shrug off the first few hits would make him a much more dangerous opponent.

Likewise on Vehicles. Squads count as a sil larger, so the vehicle will hit them easier, but since wound passing is by-hit, even if you spank the squad with the main gun of your repulsortank, it'll only kill one squad member at a time. So if the squad leader is kitted as the anti-armor character and squadded up with a couple support guys (have them carrying extra ammo for him) he'll be more likely to be around to damage the vehicle.

Bottom line: It's not something you want to do all the time, but it's a tool to keep in the toolbox when doing encounter design. So basically like pretty much every other option in the entire game...

I think I will stay on my first understanding of the rules, i.e. the Leader and 10 soldiers form a squad. The standard minions rule will apply inside the squad. So at the Leader initiative slot, he will act and his 10 minion group just after (or just before).

Not all rules satisfy every GMs, so no problem, thanks for everyone advices

I guess I missed it but where are you seeing that 10 minions form a squad? If those minions were your average Imperial Army with a base Agility of 2, they'd be rolling a dice pool of two yellows and seven greens.

And you are looking only at the attacking part of the minion group squad. Personally, I don't think they have to be used for attacking unless they are supporting a non-combat adept BBEG, a mastermind of some kind. They are there so your BBEG can have a more reasonable soak, wound threshold, and defense. By shunting off hits to minions your Rivals and Nemeses don't have to be an ubermensch of impossible tanky-mctankerson capability to stand up to a PC party for more then a single round.

After that, squads are for PCs who put a lot into Leadership and aren't doing much with it to do something with it. It doesn't even have to be in combat. Imagine a Charmer who has an entourage of slicers with him and he leads his slicing crew to design new software or maybe slice rival corporations systems to see what they're up to.

Or a Senator with several advisers helping them make the right decision.

Those exemples made my day, thanks a lot, this demonstrate perfectly when to use the squad rule or when not use it !

I completly agree with the posts above, and I found the General Kenobi in front of his guyz reflecting all incoming blaster shots perfect, it reminded me a lot of scenes in Clone Wars !

Also, squadron rules represents what happened in the Battle of Yavin very well. Luke formed a squadron with Biggs and Wedge. Luke assigned Vader's first hit to Biggs, which killed him outright. He assigned the second hit to Wedge, which was not strong enough to kill him, but Vader used his advantages/triumph to break the squadron formation, and Luke directed Wedge to leave, since he wasn't doing any more good back there. Vader could have critted, but wasn't sure he would get a kill, and knew he only had one or two more shots to take out Luke. His first crits R2, then Han surprises him with a double triumph, killing one wingman outright, breaking Vader's formation, and moving Vader out of position so he can't fire.

I think I will stay on my first understanding of the rules, i.e. the Leader and 10 soldiers form a squad. The standard minions rule will apply inside the squad. So at the Leader initiative slot, he will act and his 10 minion group just after (or just before).

Not all rules satisfy every GMs, so no problem, thanks for everyone advices

I think in a lot of situations just keeping them separate with the squad leader being more narrative is more appropriate when talking NPCs. NPC "leaders" like the Imperial Officer and Stormtrooper Sgt. have abilities that apply to nearby allies and minion groups, and not to attached squads, so squadding up properly will actually weaken them by taking those abilities away.

The place where squad rules really work for NPCs is situations where you've got the players in a vehicle vs. dismounted NPCS, or need to keep one specific NPC Rival or Nemesis alive for some reason and applying talents or abilities like "Imperial Valor" won't work. Also those Specific Rivals/Nems should be plenty dangerous on their own, or be extremely proficient in the skill set they'll be using most in the encounter so as to regularly generate triumphs.

So like, if you have Players that are melee/saber monsters you need to slow down, Imperial Valor won't work because it's a ranged option only, and the players are probably generating enough damage (+Breach/Pierce) that they can easily cut through even large minion groups with ease. Squadding up in that case makes more sense because even if the double bladed Ataru ubermaster swings into them and scores a 12 damage Linked 2 Breach hit, he'll only remove 3 minions, as opposed to the 7 minions he'll down using normal damage modeling.

Or if you have a Stormtrooper encounter made of up a Sgt., Several minion groups, and a Rival Specialist, it might make sense to have the Specialist squad up with 2 or 3 troopers in a nest or strongpoint. The Specialist already has something crazy like a repeating blaster, missile tube, repeater, flechette launcher, or what have you, so the supporting fire from a couple squaddies isn't going to be a huge boon for him. But the ability to increase the cost of Blast and Auto-fire against him, and shrug off the first few hits would make him a much more dangerous opponent.

Likewise on Vehicles. Squads count as a sil larger, so the vehicle will hit them easier, but since wound passing is by-hit, even if you spank the squad with the main gun of your repulsortank, it'll only kill one squad member at a time. So if the squad leader is kitted as the anti-armor character and squadded up with a couple support guys (have them carrying extra ammo for him) he'll be more likely to be around to damage the vehicle.

Bottom line: It's not something you want to do all the time, but it's a tool to keep in the toolbox when doing encounter design. So basically like pretty much every other option in the entire game...

That's fantastic (as well as SEApocolypse)

I'd only add that vehicle combat - particularly space combat - are very deadly and using squad/squadron rules can be a good way of increasing PC survivability especially if they're in fragile star fighters.

I think I will stay on my first understanding of the rules, i.e. the Leader and 10 soldiers form a squad. The standard minions rule will apply inside the squad. So at the Leader initiative slot, he will act and his 10 minion group just after (or just before).

Not all rules satisfy every GMs, so no problem, thanks for everyone advices

I think in a lot of situations just keeping them separate with the squad leader being more narrative is more appropriate when talking NPCs. NPC "leaders" like the Imperial Officer and Stormtrooper Sgt. have abilities that apply to nearby allies and minion groups, and not to attached squads, so squadding up properly will actually weaken them by taking those abilities away.

The place where squad rules really work for NPCs is situations where you've got the players in a vehicle vs. dismounted NPCS, or need to keep one specific NPC Rival or Nemesis alive for some reason and applying talents or abilities like "Imperial Valor" won't work. Also those Specific Rivals/Nems should be plenty dangerous on their own, or be extremely proficient in the skill set they'll be using most in the encounter so as to regularly generate triumphs.

So like, if you have Players that are melee/saber monsters you need to slow down, Imperial Valor won't work because it's a ranged option only, and the players are probably generating enough damage (+Breach/Pierce) that they can easily cut through even large minion groups with ease. Squadding up in that case makes more sense because even if the double bladed Ataru ubermaster swings into them and scores a 12 damage Linked 2 Breach hit, he'll only remove 3 minions, as opposed to the 7 minions he'll down using normal damage modeling.

Or if you have a Stormtrooper encounter made of up a Sgt., Several minion groups, and a Rival Specialist, it might make sense to have the Specialist squad up with 2 or 3 troopers in a nest or strongpoint. The Specialist already has something crazy like a repeating blaster, missile tube, repeater, flechette launcher, or what have you, so the supporting fire from a couple squaddies isn't going to be a huge boon for him. But the ability to increase the cost of Blast and Auto-fire against him, and shrug off the first few hits would make him a much more dangerous opponent.

Likewise on Vehicles. Squads count as a sil larger, so the vehicle will hit them easier, but since wound passing is by-hit, even if you spank the squad with the main gun of your repulsortank, it'll only kill one squad member at a time. So if the squad leader is kitted as the anti-armor character and squadded up with a couple support guys (have them carrying extra ammo for him) he'll be more likely to be around to damage the vehicle.

Bottom line: It's not something you want to do all the time, but it's a tool to keep in the toolbox when doing encounter design. So basically like pretty much every other option in the entire game...

That's fantastic (as well as SEApocolypse)

I'd only add that vehicle combat - particularly space combat - are very deadly and using squad/squadron rules can be a good way of increasing PC survivability especially if they're in fragile star fighters.

Between GtA, Double Evasive Maneuvers, Brilliant Evasion, Intuitive Evasion, tricky target and other tools to reduce a ship's silhouette to zero etc … I would say Ace Pilots and Starfighter Aces are on the safer side of things in starship combat. It's the green (dice) pilots who ain't starfighter aces who really gonna need an escort. Which fits the theme very well too.

I think I will stay on my first understanding of the rules, i.e. the Leader and 10 soldiers form a squad. The standard minions rule will apply inside the squad. So at the Leader initiative slot, he will act and his 10 minion group just after (or just before).

Not all rules satisfy every GMs, so no problem, thanks for everyone advices

I think in a lot of situations just keeping them separate with the squad leader being more narrative is more appropriate when talking NPCs. NPC "leaders" like the Imperial Officer and Stormtrooper Sgt. have abilities that apply to nearby allies and minion groups, and not to attached squads, so squadding up properly will actually weaken them by taking those abilities away.

The place where squad rules really work for NPCs is situations where you've got the players in a vehicle vs. dismounted NPCS, or need to keep one specific NPC Rival or Nemesis alive for some reason and applying talents or abilities like "Imperial Valor" won't work. Also those Specific Rivals/Nems should be plenty dangerous on their own, or be extremely proficient in the skill set they'll be using most in the encounter so as to regularly generate triumphs.

So like, if you have Players that are melee/saber monsters you need to slow down, Imperial Valor won't work because it's a ranged option only, and the players are probably generating enough damage (+Breach/Pierce) that they can easily cut through even large minion groups with ease. Squadding up in that case makes more sense because even if the double bladed Ataru ubermaster swings into them and scores a 12 damage Linked 2 Breach hit, he'll only remove 3 minions, as opposed to the 7 minions he'll down using normal damage modeling.

Or if you have a Stormtrooper encounter made of up a Sgt., Several minion groups, and a Rival Specialist, it might make sense to have the Specialist squad up with 2 or 3 troopers in a nest or strongpoint. The Specialist already has something crazy like a repeating blaster, missile tube, repeater, flechette launcher, or what have you, so the supporting fire from a couple squaddies isn't going to be a huge boon for him. But the ability to increase the cost of Blast and Auto-fire against him, and shrug off the first few hits would make him a much more dangerous opponent.

Likewise on Vehicles. Squads count as a sil larger, so the vehicle will hit them easier, but since wound passing is by-hit, even if you spank the squad with the main gun of your repulsortank, it'll only kill one squad member at a time. So if the squad leader is kitted as the anti-armor character and squadded up with a couple support guys (have them carrying extra ammo for him) he'll be more likely to be around to damage the vehicle.

Bottom line: It's not something you want to do all the time, but it's a tool to keep in the toolbox when doing encounter design. So basically like pretty much every other option in the entire game...

That's fantastic (as well as SEApocolypse)

I'd only add that vehicle combat - particularly space combat - are very deadly and using squad/squadron rules can be a good way of increasing PC survivability especially if they're in fragile star fighters.

Between GtA, Double Evasive Maneuvers, Brilliant Evasion, Intuitive Evasion, tricky target and other tools to reduce a ship's silhouette to zero etc … I would say Ace Pilots and Starfighter Aces are on the safer side of things in starship combat. It's the green (dice) pilots who ain't starfighter aces who really gonna need an escort. Which fits the theme very well too.

But that is a massively advanced pilot. A starting character is a meat packet in a fighter, even against a single minion. 1-2 hits is all it takes, and there are no ship stimpacks. Even the great pilots still are limited to 1-2 hits, except with the signature vehicles. There is very limited ways to enhance survivability in fighter combat.

People in the thread seemed to cover most of the questions here pretty well. I liked a few of the posts that did a particularly good job of elaborating on both the intent and RAW of the ruleset. It is primarily a defensive set of rules designed to protect PCs and story-critical NPCs.

People seem to get really hung up on the flavor title of the rules "squad and squadron" and the idea that if you aren't in the group, then you aren't in the "squad", which leads them to feel like squads are underpowered, because that minion group loses a powerful attack. I understand that, but there are two definitions of "squad/ron" at play here, and that seems to confuse people. There is the "narrative squad", which is to say, all characters who are members of the squad via the story, this can include various PCs and NPCs (be it minions, rivals, or nemesis level NPCs). Then there is the "mechanical squad", which is to say, those characters benefiting from this ruleset. They are potentially two very different things. If your party is given 10 NPC minions to accomplish a mission, you might decide to squad up with just 1-3 to give yourself some potential damage reduction, while you leave the others in separate minion groups that aren't squadded up to keep those big attacks. The squad and squadron rules don't in any way prevent you from doing this. Narratively, you are all still possibly a single "squad/ron", even if only some characters are utilizing the rules. As has been said above, they are great for certain situations, and certainly not a cureall design ala mass combat.

Because it has been buried over time, I'm going to go ahead and copy and repost a scripted live-play scenario I wrote to show how these rules should feel at the table.

Okay, as promised, since there seem to have been a lot of questions about the squad and squadron rules as they function in practice, I have done up a nice little ground scenario featuring the rules here for those interested to read. To keep things simple, we are going to have a small party of 3 characters, a Squad Leader, a Commando, and a Medic. These are there of the elite members of, let’s say, Katarn’s Commandos. The Rebels have sent the commandos on a dangerous mission to recover a wounded Rebel General caught behind enemy lines on a jungle planet, and bring him back. The rest of the commando unit is rounded out by 8 minions.

The team lands on the jungle planet, their insertion went smoothly. They now have a 20 kilometer hike through jungle to locate the enemy camp, and must avoid patrols.

Squad Leader (SL): I want to put my minions in a Squad, so I can put them in the Skirmish formation, just to guard against ambush.

GM: Okay, make an Easy Leadership check to form a squad.

SL: (rolls his leadership against 1 purple, nets 3 SUC, 2 AD) I succeeded, 2 advantage as well.

GM: Well, we aren’t in combat, so entering a formation as an incidental isn’t helpful, there anything you want to spend it on? You have full everything.

SL: Can I get a Boost to my formation check?

GM: Sure. Which formation? Skirmish?

SL: Yeah, that’s the one that improves vigilance, right?

GM: Right. Okay, not in combat, so just make an Easy check again.

SL: (Rolls his leadership against 1 purple, nets 2 success) Okay, not perfect, but hey, Triumph.

GM: Okay, you are in skirmish.

SL: Cool, so we have an idea where this camp is, right?

GM: A vague idea, yes.

SL: Okay, well lets get our weapons out, treat is as a combat zone, and start walking.

GM: Okay, Let’s have an Average Survival Check from whoever is leading the way

Commando (CM): That’d be me. (Rolls, succeeds, gets the party headed toward the camp). Woot!

GM: Okay, so you guys pick up a very wild, but vague path that the CM is able to follow from the map. Let me get an Average Perception check from everyone. SL, your Boost from your formation can apply here.

SL: Outstanding. (Rolls perception, nets 1 triumph, 3 success, and 1 threat). Okay.

CM: Rolls, succeeds.

MD: Rolls, succeeds.

GM: Okay, you guys all succeed. You hear the telltale whine of an Imperial speederbike, and as you listen closer, the familiar plastic clanking of stormtroopers marching in formation. For that threat, one of your eight minions has wandered forward, out of formation, his head cocked as his listens to the sound become more distinct. That minion isn’t considered a part of the squad anymore.

SL: Awe man.

GM: Them’s the breaks. What do you want to do with the triumph?

SL: Okay, guys, we have the advantage here, I want to spend my triumph to switch to the comm silence formation, as an incidental.

GM: Okay, you don’t even have to roll for that, since you got it off the Triumph, but if you guys want to hide, I’m going to need Stealth checks from you all. Since the path is so well shrouded, its an Average check for CM and MD, but SL needs to give me a Hard check, since he’s silhouette 2. You get that boost though from the formation.

CM: My stealth is so much better. Can I make a coop check with SL that counts for his entire squad too?

GM: Sure. The results will count for you too, though.

CM: Works for me. Let’s use the CMs Stealth skill, and the SL’s Dex and the boost from the formation.

SL: Okay (rolls, nets 2 success, and 2 threat).

GM: Ooo, double threat. Because of the way you guys are hiding off the path, none of your squad is going to be able to lend you much support if you come under attack.

SL: Understood.

GM: Okay, MD, you made your check. So you guys are all hidden off the path. You can clearly see what looks like eight stormtroopers, one of which has a sergeant’s pauldron. There are also two scout troopers on speederbikes that zip past the formation to scout on ahead. They will likely loop back in a few minutes. They don’t see you, but the Sergeant does order a halt at Medium range to you guys, facing your general direction, to rest a moment. SL, you can see some of your minions’ jaws tight with fear as you look at your squad. The moment is super intense. If just one stormtrooper spots you guys….I need everyone to make an Average Discipline check to keep still.

SL: Can I make a Leadership check instead to keep my guys steady?

GM: Sure. Average Leadership check.

CM: Can I roll Cool instead? I’m not exactly afraid of just a squad, I’ve faced longer odds. I’ll just sit here chewing my stimchew.

GM: Sure, why not. Alright, (Watches them all roll and succeed, SL gets a Triumph). Oustanding. But before you spend that triumph, remember, there’s one minion that isn’t a part of the squad. Looks like he doesn’t have any ranks in discipline either….2 Willpower, here goes.

SL: Oh son of a Hutt!

GM: Yeah, so he fails. You can see the lone minion starting to lose his cool as he looks back and forth between the rest of you and the stormtroopers. He’s mumbling, saying things like, kark this, they can see us man, they can see us. We need to run. Run. Run. Run! And then he stands up and takes off running, tearing through the brush. IN reaction to the noise, one of the stormtroopers says “what was that?!” and they all turn toward the group.

SL: Well, looks like we don’t get to dodge this fight after all. Can I use my triumph to let my Squad make a free attack right now?

GM: Why yes, yes you can. After that we’ll need to roll initiative slots.

SL: Alright, let’s take out one of these stormtroopers. (Rolls the attack for his minions, 7 of them, they roll really well, and kill one of the minion stormtroopers).

GM: Okay, your squad all attacks before the stormtroopers can quite figure out what’s going on, and a hail of blaster fire lances the stormtrooper who had questioned the noise, leaving his armor riddled full of smoking holes. Okay, Let’s figure out initiative, guys. I’m gonna need Cool checks from all of you to determine initiative, the stormtroopers will be rolling Vigilance, though. The sergeant rolls a 1.4, and the remaining 7 stormie minions roll 1.0.

SL: Okay, I got a 2.2, also, I hit another triumph.

CM: 3.1

MD: 0.2

GM: Okay, so it goes Rebel, Rebel, Imperial, Imperial, Rebel. Anything you want to spend that triumph on?

SL: Well, It’d be nice to switch to a new formation, since we aren’t exactly trying to be stealthy anymore. I have a feeling I’ll need my troops later for the assault on the camp if this is the size of their patrol, so let’s switch to Dug In, increase our survivability some.

GM: Okay, you’re switched. Who’s gonna go first?

SL: I might as well. I know we were already using the brush off the path as soft cover, are there more sturdy trees we can shift toward to provide actual cover, and stack with our dug in formation?

GM: Sure, I’ll let you guys do that for a maneuver. You were already pretty close to it, but a quick shift in posture, and your squad is able to provide cover fire and maximize their protection from the trees.

SL: Cool, also, I’d like to attack the sergeant. If we take him out, the minions should go down easier.

GM: Okay, roll your attack. Also, I’m going to upgrade this check, and did I mention this enemy has adversary I? So you are rolling 2 reds.

SL: Great. (Rolls, hits, but also hits a despair)

GM: Okay, your blaster bolt glances off his armor, but staggers him slightly. However, the rest of your squad seems to have lost fire discipline during the fray, and they aren’t really protecting each other anymore. For your despair, you have dropped out of the formation, though you guys are still grouped as a squad.

SL: Awe, man.

GM: Okay, who wants to go next?

CM: I’ll go. I want to maneuver a little closer and slightly behind them, and take cover. I want to do it real sneaky like, though.

GM: Okay, I’ll need a stealth check against their perception. I’ll give you a boost since they are a lot more concerned about the hail of blaster bolts coming from the squad, and another boost because of all the soft cover in the area.

CM: Sweet. (Rolls, succeeds) Okay, I want to take out my grenade, and I want to cook it so they won’t have time to run away once they see it land.

GM: Okay, you can make the attack next turn then, with a boost to the attack. Okay, Imperials get to go. The Sergeant is going to order his men into a squad as his maneuver, he gets a boost because stormtroopers have discipline. Let’s see here, success, so this second imperial initiative slot can go away, and if minions are later separated from the imperial squad, they will act during the same slot as the squad, just separately). Okay, now he’s going to attack the squad leader (all attacks to a squad(ron) are directed at the leader unless die results or squad mechanics move the hit to a minion within the unit). Okay, his attack roll, suffering one black because of the cover bonus, but only one, because you guys broke formation….what do you know, triumph! Okay. So let’s deal with the attack itself first. SL, you want to redirect it?

SL: Actually, no, I think I’ll take this first hit. MD can always patch me up.

GM: Your funeral. Okay, so the sergeant points you out as the target, and all his men fire right the tree you are behind. A stray blaster bolt grazes your arm. You suffer…let’s see…..10 wounds, minus your 4 soak.

SL: Ouch.

GM: Indeed. Also, because of the triumph, one of the stray blaster bolts of the volley catches a member of your squad in the belly, and he crumples up, then goes still. That brings you down to 6 guys in the squad.

SL: Medic!

MD: It’s my turn anyway. I’m going to rush over to that fallen minion and see if I can’t help him out.

GM: Alright, go ahead and make a medicine check, let’s say Hard, and with a setback because you are in the middle of combat.

MD: Don’t you die on me! I wrap the wound and try and revive him. (Rolls, fails)

GM: I’m sorry, he’s gone.

MD: Noooooo!

GM: Okay, that’s one round. Who wants to go first?

CM: You know I’m ready to toss that grenade, it’s cooking.

GM: Okay, go ahead.

CM: Rolls, Woooo! Success, two advantage, and a triumph.

GM: Alright, so they never saw this coming, and never really had a chance to get out of the way, but one loyal stormtrooper saw it arc in his field of fire, and he leapt on top of it, absorbing most of the blast. He dies. And with the triumph, we’ll say that he angled himself to protect the squad leader as best as possible, but that also focused the blast toward the guy standing next to him. The blast sends that other stormtrooper flying, and he dies too. That’s three minions down so far. He has 5 left in the imp squad.

CM: I was hoping to activate blast, but I’ll take it. I want to ready my rifle for next round.

GM: Okay, who’s next.

SL: I might as well go. We are losing too many guys, I want to dig back in, double our cover bonus.

GM: Okay, average leadership check.

SL: Success, with a threat.

GM: Okay, one of your minions is a bit too far out, so he isn’t really part of the squad. That puts you down 3 minions total, though two of them are alive, just separated.

SL: Fair enough. Now I also get an attack. Let’s try and weaken this squad a bit more before their next attack here, I want to upgrade our check, that red scares me. (Rolls, succeeds, result, one more minion down)

GM: Okay, blaster bolts are flying back and forth, and another stormtrooper minion drops. He’s down to 4 minions, you’ve cut his squad in half. That lone rebel minion gets to go now, he’ll take a shot at the squad. (Rolls) And he hits. The squad leader will redirect to a minion again, and it’s his turn now, he’s going to order his squad into the Dug In formation as well, and have his guys step back toward the tree line on the opposite side of the path. (Rolls, gets threat) Okay, well one of his men didn’t quite get that message, and he’s still out on the path. The squad only has 2 guys left in it. This minion gets to act right after the squad though. For their action, the squad is going to attack the rebel squad again, he gets those two setbacks though, because of the formation and the cover. (Rolls, fails), well, so much for that. Stormtrooper marksmanship at its finest. Now that lone separated minion gets to go. Blaster bolts are whizzing all around him, but he has figured out where CM is. And he takes a shot at him. (Rolls) Okay, we have a success here, take 10 damage, minus soak.

CM: I ain’t got time to bleed.

MD: My turn?

GM: Yes.

MD: I’ll give up on this poor dead Rebel, and blast that lone minion. (rolls, succeeds)

GM: Okay, yeah, you catch him in the armor gap at the shoulder, and he drops his weapon and falls to the ground, writhing in pain.

SL: Great shot!

CM: I owe you one.

GM: Okay, back to the top of the order.

CM: Let’s finish these guys. I’ll blast the squad.

GM: Okay, two setback though, for their armor and their dug in formation.

CM: I don’t think it’ll matter. (Rolls) Boom! Tons of success, looks like…13 damage.

GM: Okay, but he redirects again, so all that damage does is vaporize the helmet, along with the head, of one of the stormtroopers in the squad. There’s only the sergeant and one minion left, guys.

SL: Okay, I think we got this. I’ll attack the squad as well. (Rolls) Umm, hrm. Success, Triumph, Despair, and two advantage.

GM: Oh boy. Alright. So let’s see how we’ll resolve this. First let’s deal with the attack. It hits, but gets redirected. So the last minion goes down. How do you want to spend the triumph.

SL: Absolutely an immediate free attack from the minions.

GM: Okay, but for the despair, your formation is broken again. However, because that last minion is gone, the enemy squad is considered disbanded. So you only have to roll the setback for the sergeant’s armor.

SL: If I don’t get a real maneuver soon (beca use I’ve had to spend them all getting back into formation), I’m going to start sprouting roots. But okay. This minion attack should go big. I still have enough guys to max out the roll. (Rolls) Um, yeah. Look at all the positive things.

GM: Yeah I think you got him. Let’s see….14 damage? Yeah. The squad hits him once and spins him around out of cover, and the half a dozen shots that follow drop him with a wet thwack to the jungle floor.

Anyway, hope that clears a few things up for you guys about how this should look and feel in practice at the table. Sorry it took an extra day, this just ended up being longer (and a bit more fun) than I had planned originally.

Awesome, thanks !

Keith, since you're reading this thread, why is damage to minions in a squad handled differently from damage to a minion group? By this I mean why does damage 'spill over' in the later but not in the former?

Keith discusses the Sqaud rules in detail in Episode 37 of the Order 66 podcast.

Keith, since you're reading this thread, why is damage to minions in a squad handled differently from damage to a minion group? By this I mean why does damage 'spill over' in the later but not in the former?

Not Keith, but imo rather obvious.

As squads and squadrons are handled more or less the same you can not spill over damage anyway as starships are not minions, furthermore you would totally negate the defensive advantage from squadrons against heavy fire if the damage still spills over.

A single starship would annihilate a whole infantry squad in one shot. The squadron rules are extremely useful to prevent this, are consistent to what you need for starship combat anyway and are the perfect tool to use for story-relevant rivals even, characters which you do not want to boost with the more suited imperial valor talent. You do lose some offensive power of your minions, but gain defensive power. It's imo really good to balance encounters better as GM and makes the military setting a lot more sustainable in AoR campaigns for player characters as well.