Chat with Frank Brooks whilst at The NOVA Open.

By KrisSherriff, in Runewars Miniatures Game

Hi all,

I managed to steal Frank away for a few minutes for a chat and we covered some RuneWars stuff which I found interesting so hopefully you will too!

YouTube Link

Thanks

Kris

Very interested in that lore book he talked about. I can't wait to read it!

Looks like the distribution model will be different from X-Wing, and no need to buy models from other factions to get important upgrade cards.

Looks like the distribution model will be different from X-Wing, and no need to buy models from other factions to get important upgrade cards.

Yeah! That was the other important "news" from the interview. I was thinking about that this morning on my walk. The thing is, if FFG could get away with it, I think they would. But if they have realized how important faction identity is to players and take that into account, I'll be pretty excited.

Looks like the distribution model will be different from X-Wing, and no need to buy models from other factions to get important upgrade cards.

Yeah this a welcome, welcome bit of news!

As Franks says, they know they can get away with it in X-Wing, Armada and Imperial Assault, not least because its friggin' Star Wars and most people like all of it, not least because there's only 3 factions anyhow, but also because the lists are much smaller, so it's a much smaller hit to 'have' to buy an A-Wing to get a Push the Limit card for your TIE Interceptor.

FFG making this decision - is another indication that the points total will eventually go above the 200 point mark (as that seems to be somewhat similar Armada - in terms of the number of units/products required) and a massive indication that there will be multiple (i.e 4+) factions in the game.

But if they have realized how important faction identity is to players and take that into account

I don't think it has anything to do with faction identity, but I think you're right they would of done it like X-Wing if they could of. But like Frank said, it's going to be more expensive to collect a faction in RuneWars then it does in X-Wing.

They know people are only going to spend so much money on a game, and I think this game may be pushing towards the top end of most peoples budgets for a single faction. So having to collect more then one faction would likely push a lot of people out of the game completely.

In other games they often count on people collecting more then one faction, like say Infinity or Malifaux, I think most people end up collecting more then one faction once they have everything they want for their first faction. But with RuneWars I think the upgrade cards will keep people buying stuff from each wave.

is another indication that the points total will eventually go above the 200 point mark (as that seems to be somewhat similar Armada - in terms of the number of units/products required)

No it really isn't. FFG does not change point values on any of their games unless they have to.

The only reason Armada changed was because they had wave 1 and 2 delayed due mostly to TFA. So they just couldn't get enough ships out to make 400 points viable.

Also the number of units required for Armada is very small, on the same scale as X-Wing. Most games of Armada consist of 3-4 models and X number of squadrons. Unless you count a formation as a single unit then RuneWars will have a much higher unit cost. It will have a massively larger model count however, and that's the real reason why FFG isn't going to use the cross faction system.

I'm not saying the point size can't or won't increase, but there's been nothing said so far that even hints at FFG changing it, and they have a history of not changing it, without a very good reason.

But even if they don't formally change the point system for standard games, I imagine an "epic-style" variant isn't unlikely to be introduced at some point that will have a higher point-cap.

is another indication that the points total will eventually go above the 200 point mark (as that seems to be somewhat similar Armada - in terms of the number of units/products required)

No it really isn't. FFG does not change point values on any of their games unless they have to.

The only reason Armada changed was because they had wave 1 and 2 delayed due mostly to TFA. So they just couldn't get enough ships out to make 400 points viable.

Also the number of units required for Armada is very small, on the same scale as X-Wing. Most games of Armada consist of 3-4 models and X number of squadrons. Unless you count a formation as a single unit then RuneWars will have a much higher unit cost. It will have a massively larger model count however, and that's the real reason why FFG isn't going to use the cross faction system.

I'm not saying the point size can't or won't increase, but there's been nothing said so far that even hints at FFG changing it, and they have a history of not changing it, without a very good reason.

Fair enough. Although wasn't the whole 180 to 300 to 400 point thing in Armada pretty much locked in from the start, since its in the rulebook and all? Couldn't a similar thing be happening here?

And yes I suppose with the whole 'choose your number of trays' thing going on, we will probably see a skeleton pack containing a ton of models and being around $39.99 and then it's upto you to decide whether that's going to be two separate units or one big one or any combination thereof.

With much more expensive individual packs, it's another reason to not gouge people with the cards.

Also the number of units required for Armada is very small, on the same scale as X-Wing. Most games of Armada consist of 3-4 models and X number of squadrons. Unless you count a formation as a single unit then RuneWars will have a much higher unit cost. It will have a massively larger model count however, and that's the real reason why FFG isn't going to use the cross faction system.

Worth to note however, that some kind of cross-faction system will be present in the game: Kari Wraithstalker's ability to hire Latari Elf infantry.

But even if they don't formally change the point system for standard games...

I assume that RuneWars like every other game I've played can be played at different point values based on what people want to play. Some point values may be not be as well balanced as others, but in X-Wing you can play at 100, 120, 125, 250, whatever and the game works.

Although wasn't the whole 180 to 300 to 400 point thing in Armada pretty much locked in from the start, since its in the rulebook and all?

Yes it was, because they knew they couldn't get enough ships out in time. With Armada the first wave didn't get released until two months after the core set came out, and even with two or three core sets you still had issues getting to 300 points. Getting to 400 with Wave 1 was also an issue, since there were no ISD's or MonCals. They knew that 400 points wasn't really viable even with the core set and wave 1 stuff. We also knew that, and knew the point values were going to be changed.

But despite them releasing a number of new ships since wave 2, the point value hasn't changed, nor have they raised the points for X-Wing after 10 waves.

Couldn't a similar thing be happening here?

Anything is possible and the point values for standard matches is always subject to change. But at this point in Armada we knew the point limits were going to start off small and go up. There is no reason to believe RuneWars will to the same thing, since they seem to have enough models to make 200 points viable ready to go at release. Plus if the core set has around 100 points worth of stuff, there will be plenty of models on the table at 200.

Myself I still expect them release packs based on the smallest number of trays you can have in a single formation, so if you need at least two archers or spearmen to make a formation you'll get two trays and 8 models in a single expansion. But that's just my guess.

The thing is, to me, 200 points - i.e around twice the amount found in the core set, doesn't look big enough to me. It still looks like a skirmish (albeit in rank and file) rather than an army game...

Myself I still expect them release packs based on the smallest number of trays you can have in a single formation, so if you need at least two archers or spearmen to make a formation you'll get two trays and 8 models in a single expansion. But that's just my guess.

Yeah I suppose they have to do one or the other - two trays/8 figures or say 10 trays/40 figures.

The only problem is, realistically two trays/8 figures + cards etc is going to have to be at least $19.99 given that a 3 figure IA pack is $14.95.

Then if we look at this card: pic3127977_lg.jpg

We can see that the maximum number of trays in this unit is 12 trays/48 figures. So that's what? $120 dollars just for one maxed out skeleton group?!?

It might be more marketable and better for FFG to sell them in larger packs that cost less per tray/figure. Something like 6 trays/24 figures for say $40, like the army packs for Battlelore.

But then of course the problem becomes "but I only wanted one or two more trays not 6!"

Edited by jonboyjon1990

It really doesn't have to be 4 figures for $20, and in fact I wager it'll be closer to 8 figures for 20.

I think it could be 4 or 6 for the Reanimated, with 4 you need 3 packs for a full unit with 6 two that should be doable, the Carrion Lancer could very well be one tray per box and the cavalry 2.

Looking at the units in the base game, my assumption is that the size of those units will be what comes in blisters/boxes. I apologize that I'm about to use 40k terms, but it's the easiest shared vocabulary to use here.

Common/Basic "Troops" choices (reanimates, spear men): 4 trays/16 figures per pack

Rarer/Specialized "Elites" choices (Knights, archers): two trays/4-8 figures per pack

Large or Unique "Heavy Support/HQ" choices (commanders, monsters): 1 tray/1 figure per pack

As far as pricing, I have no idea what they will have up their sleeves. FFG has a tendency to make their units affordable (at least in relation to GW or PP games), my guess is going to be a range from around $15-$20 for the monsters/commanders up to maybe the $40 range for units. Obviously I would love it if the units stayed on the cheaper side, particularly since I think it behooves FFG to avoid that moaning that GW (and to a lesser extent PP) gets over the "hero tax" (where a single commander or special character is enormously expensive solely by virtue of in game importance, not actual materials).

I mean, if we could get a wrath of kings pricing model I would be ecstatic, but I'm not holding my breath.

Obviously I would love it if the units stayed on the cheaper side, particularly since I think it behooves FFG to avoid that moaning that GW (and to a lesser extent PP) gets over the "hero tax" (where a single commander or special character is enormously expensive solely by virtue of in game importance, not actual materials).

I mean, if we could get a wrath of kings pricing model I would be ecstatic, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm not familiar with other companies, but regarding the expense of single figures, I think a look toward BattleLore is revealing. Army packs include over 30 figure for $40, but reinforcement packs contain a single unit (often containing a single miniautre) for $15. It costs more to get one of each reinforcement pack than it does to get an army pack! I suspect it will be no different with commanders.

I think part of the rationale for the hero figures will be that they are unique, so each person only needs one of them. That may cause FFG to feel justified in the increased price for those. I have no idea, though.

Obviously I would love it if the units stayed on the cheaper side, particularly since I think it behooves FFG to avoid that moaning that GW (and to a lesser extent PP) gets over the "hero tax" (where a single commander or special character is enormously expensive solely by virtue of in game importance, not actual materials).

I mean, if we could get a wrath of kings pricing model I would be ecstatic, but I'm not holding my breath.

I'm not familiar with other companies, but regarding the expense of single figures, I think a look toward BattleLore is revealing. Army packs include over 30 figure for $40, but reinforcement packs contain a single unit (often containing a single miniautre) for $15. It costs more to get one of each reinforcement pack than it does to get an army pack! I suspect it will be no different with commanders.

I think part of the rationale for the hero figures will be that they are unique, so each person only needs one of them. That may cause FFG to feel justified in the increased price for those. I have no idea, though.

There's another thing to take into account, there is a minimum amount that a packaged product needs to cost, given cost of pieces, miniatures, cards, and the packaging and finally art and rules development. Each of those singles includes all that. Though I do agree they'll do similar with Heroes in RW

They'll probably package a scenario with each hero to justify the hero tax.

My gut tells me to expect Armada level pricing for the Kits.

I believe that the Rune Golem will be packed 2 to a pack but have no idea on price point for the actual pack.

I would guess that they will be package in such a way that you are buying more than minimum fieldable unit but less than the max. So for the Skeletons I would GUESS at a unit of 16 (4 bases at 26 points) for the $40 level.

The kits being multi part with some assembly required would allow them to price them differently to the 1 piece kits for Imperial Assault or Descent, so they are not necessarily a direct comparison. I would expect that FFG are aiming at the $250 - $300 price point for a full army without trying hard to min/max or build the cheapest list possible.

Kris

It really doesn't have to be 4 figures for $20, and in fact I wager it'll be closer to 8 figures for 20.

I said that:

realistically two trays/ 8 figures + cards etc is going to have to be at least $19.99 given that a 3 figure IA pack is $14.95.

Edited by jonboyjon1990