Intel Officer: While attacking, after you roll your attack pool, you may exhaust this card to choose 1 defense token. If that token is spent during this attack, discard that token.

Effects use and Timing: p5. An “after” effect occurs immediately after the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

Step 2 of Attack: p2. Roll Attack Dice: Gather attack dice to form the attack pool and roll those dice. Gather only the dice that are appropriate for the range of the attack as indicated by the icons on the range ruler.

Does the Intel Officer then get used in Step 2, rather than step 3? Most people seem to play him as part of the modify dice step, which if I have put this together with some semblance of logic would imply I have been doing it wrong with many others.

Although I suspect the intention he is to be used during the modify dice step, the RAW seems pretty clear here.

I thought things that share a resolution window can be resolved in any order?

You roll the attack pool

You can Modify dice here

You can use rerolls here

You can use Intel Officer here

They all have to be resolved immediately after rolling your attack pool. There is no window between rolling attack pool, and modifying dice.

After is defined as immediately after.

So roll dice, Intel officer, resolve attack effects.

Interesting nuance.

Word play.

Immediately after rolling your attack pool, You spend Accuracys/Reroll/Modify, and then the Defender gets to use Defense Tokens.

There is no Interim area between the initial roll and what happens after it.

Collect dice, Roll them, what happens next? several things, except you decide how you are going to resolve the order of them.

Using the Intel Officer after spending Accuracys, Modifying and Reolling, is still Immediately after rolling your attack pool.

Collect Dice

Roll Dice

Modify/Reroll Spend Accuracy

Defender spends Defense tokens.

Immediately after rolling your attack pool, You spend Accuracys/Reroll/Modify, and then the Defender gets to use Defense Tokens.

Actually that's not correct. You do those things during the Modify Dice step, which is different from "after rolling dice".

Word play.

Immediately after rolling your attack pool, You spend Accuracys/Reroll/Modify, and then the Defender gets to use Defense Tokens.

There is no Interim area between the initial roll and what happens after it.

Collect dice, Roll them, what happens next? several things, except you decide how you are going to resolve the order of them.

Using the Intel Officer after spending Accuracys, Modifying and Reolling, is still Immediately after rolling your attack pool.

Collect Dice

Roll Dice

Modify/Reroll Spend Accuracy

Defender spends Defense tokens.

Incorrect.

Different attack step.

Yes, this is a card that comes under the "unless another timing is specified" timing rules of Card Effects and Timing.

You must be deciding on wether to use Intel Officer before modifying any dice, or spending any accuracies... You have to judge your best use of intel officer based on your raw dice pool.

Its still under "While Attacking"... And Intel Officer itself does not modify dice, so there is no need for it to be used in the Modify Dice step, so its timing is specifically specified.

It takes a little bit of the kicker out of what is normally a very good card.

OK, lets get this straight.

You are saying there is now a new timing window?

You gather dice (y/n IO)

You roll dice (y/n IO)

You modify dice (y/n IO)

Defender spends defense tokens (y/n IO)

Which of them states/stages is legal for the use of Intel Officer?

Once dice have been rolled, you are beyond the ROLL DICE step, it stops immediately and becomes the Modify Dice step, because anything that happens in the Modify step, can happen immediately after the dice roll step of attacking.

You're overthinking it, Eastern...

The Modify Dice step is not immediately after the Roll Dice step.

Its After.

Immediately after the Roll Dice step is in between the two steps - because you do any and all imemdiatelys before proceeding on.

This is nothing new, rules wise, only a recognition that is actually where it is.

Roll Your Dice.
Decide on wether you are going to use Intel Officer.

Proceed to Modify said dice.

I'm sorry what states do you go through when you make an attack?

You cannot use Intel Officer when you Gather Dice.

You cannot use Intel Officer when you Roll Dice

You cannot use Intel Officer when you Spend Defense Tokens.

It says on the upgrade card "after you roll."

What stage is after you roll the dice?

So yes I'm not accepting that there is a new unique timing window just for the use of Intel Officer. And like everything else that shares a timing window, you choose which order they are resolved in.

But by all means lets ask FFG for something else that needs no clarification, to be clarified.

What needs Clarification?

Because let's look at everything... No Hash-typing, only direct quotes:

Intel Officer

"While attacking, after you roll your attack pool, you may exhaust this card to choose 1 defense token. If that token is spent during this attack, discard that token."

Effect Use and Timing

Each effect in the game has a timing during which it can resolve. This timing is usually specified within the effect, though some effects use the more specific timing described in this section.

• An effect that modifies attack dice can only be resolved during the “Resolve Attacks Effects” step of an attack unless another timing is specified.

• An “after” effect occurs immediately after the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

• If two or more of a player’s effects have the same timing, that player can resolve those effects in any order.

2. Roll Attack Dice: Gather attack dice to form the attack pool and roll those dice. Gather only the dice that are appropriate for the range of the attack as indicated by the icons on the range ruler.

◊ If the defender is a ship, gather the attack dice indicated in the attacking hull zone’s or squadron’s battery armament.

◊ If the defender is a squadron, gather the attack dice indicated in the attacker’s anti-squadron armament.

◊ If the attacker cannot gather any dice appropriate for the range of the attack, the attack is canceled.

3. Resolve Attack Effects: The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:

◊ Modify Dice: The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the P command.

◊ Spend Accuracy (G) Icons: The attacker can spend one or more of its G icons to choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack.

4. Spend Defense Tokens: The defender can spend one or more of its defense tokens.

I did a little bit of Italic Emphasis. That is where you Gather and Form your Attack Pool ... At which point, you immediately use Intel Officer.

I certainly argue that "Immediately After Step One" and "Before Step Two" are TOTALLY different Timing Windows. Otherwise there wouldn't be any need to have a Before and After set of arguments...

...

And I'm sorry, Eastern - but here's where my single biggest disagreement with your line of logic lies:

If you are unwilling to accept this sort of "interrupt", then you are also unwilling to accept that an Obstacle forces you to remove a die from the attack pool before rolling , despite the fact that the rules explicitly tell you to do so , because that's not a new timing window, right?

100% with Dras. As usual.

In summary: "After step N" is definitely not the same as "During [or While] step N+1". It's not even the same as "Before step N+1".

The proper order of effects is:

Before step N

While step N

After step N

Before step N+1

While step N+1

After step N+1

Before step N+2

...etc.

What needs Clarification?

Because let's look at everything... No Hash-typing, only direct quotes:

Intel Officer

"While attacking, after you roll your attack pool, you may exhaust this card to choose 1 defense token. If that token is spent during this attack, discard that token."

Effect Use and Timing

Each effect in the game has a timing during which it can resolve. This timing is usually specified within the effect, though some effects use the more specific timing described in this section.

• An effect that modifies attack dice can only be resolved during the “Resolve Attacks Effects” step of an attack unless another timing is specified.

• An “after” effect occurs immediately after the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

• If two or more of a player’s effects have the same timing, that player can resolve those effects in any order.

2. Roll Attack Dice: Gather attack dice to form the attack pool and roll those dice. Gather only the dice that are appropriate for the range of the attack as indicated by the icons on the range ruler.

◊ If the defender is a ship, gather the attack dice indicated in the attacking hull zone’s or squadron’s battery armament.

◊ If the defender is a squadron, gather the attack dice indicated in the attacker’s anti-squadron armament.

◊ If the attacker cannot gather any dice appropriate for the range of the attack, the attack is canceled.

3. Resolve Attack Effects: The attacker can resolve attack effects as described below:

◊ Modify Dice: The attacker can resolve any of its effects that modify its dice. This includes card effects and the P command.

◊ Spend Accuracy (G) Icons: The attacker can spend one or more of its G icons to choose the same number of the defender’s defense tokens. The chosen tokens cannot be spent during this attack.

4. Spend Defense Tokens: The defender can spend one or more of its defense tokens.

I did a little bit of Italic Emphasis. That is where you Gather and Form your Attack Pool ... At which point, you immediately use Intel Officer.

I certainly argue that "Immediately After Step One" and "Before Step Two" are TOTALLY different Timing Windows. Otherwise there wouldn't be any need to have a Before and After set of arguments...

...

And I'm sorry, Eastern - but here's where my single biggest disagreement with your line of logic lies:

If you are unwilling to accept this sort of "interrupt", then you are also unwilling to accept that an Obstacle forces you to remove a die from the attack pool before rolling , despite the fact that the rules explicitly tell you to do so , because that's not a new timing window, right?

No, Obstructions are part of the collect dice step?

It says after Rolling, Rolling dice is a step of the attack sequence

What is after rolling dice?

Collect Dice Step?

What collect dice step?

Look at page 16 of learn to play, the attack example.

4 : "The Rebel players rolls the dice, resulting in 4 damage, and 1 accuracy, he spends >concentrate fire command< to roll an additional blue die, resulting in one >crit<."

The next step

5 : "The Rebel player decides to spend his >accuracy< to prevent the Victory II class from spending its redirect token. (more about the Imperial using def tokens.)."

If step 4 is not a legal point for the use of Intel Officer, because it is not after rolling the dice, because it says AFTER rolling, that means it shares timing with everything else that happens in step 5, which is immediately after the ILLEGAL state to use Intel Officer.

The Learn to play Guide is superseded by the RRG in this sense, as the rules are contradictory.

Ergo, the RRG is the definitive set of rules, as stated by the front of the RRG and the Golden Rule itself.

The only time the Learn to Play guide is an accepted rules platform is when it does not get contradicted by the RRG, or an Upgrade Card.

Both of those things are happening here.

Collect Dice Step?

What collect dice step?

Gather dice? is that better for you?

Or are you going to claim that Obstructions do not occur and are applied in the Gather Dice step? because you can end up with no attack pool due to an obstruction. it certainly is not applied in the roll dice step.

The Learn to play Guide is superseded by the RRG in this sense, as the rules are contradictory.

Ergo, the RRG is the definitive set of rules, as stated by the front of the RRG and the Golden Rule itself.

The only time the Learn to Play guide is an accepted rules platform is when it does not get contradicted by the RRG, or an Upgrade Card.

Both of those things are happening here.

As per FFGs rules

You Gather (obstructions go here)

You Roll (Additions go here)

You Modify (Rerolls, Accuracys, and Intel Officers go here)

Defender spends Defense Tokens (Lando/targetting scrambler, Evades, Brace, Redirect and Contain go here, Lando/TS, and Evades are resolved here.)

Attacker can generate a critical effect here.

Brace/Contain/Redirect are resolved here

Damage is applied here

So again, how is after rolling, not being applied in everything else that happens after you roll the dice.

You Gather (obstructions go here, Additions go here)

You Roll (Additions go here)

Intel Officers Go here

You Modify (Rerolls, Accuracys, and Intel Officers go here )

Defender spends Defense Tokens (Lando/targetting scrambler, Evades, Brace, Redirect and Contain go here, Lando/TS, and Evades are resolved here.)

Attacker can generate a critical effect here.

Brace/Contain/Redirect are resolved here

Damage is applied here

The Learn to play Guide is superseded by the RRG in this sense, as the rules are contradictory.

Ergo, the RRG is the definitive set of rules, as stated by the front of the RRG and the Golden Rule itself.

The only time the Learn to Play guide is an accepted rules platform is when it does not get contradicted by the RRG, or an Upgrade Card.

Both of those things are happening here.

I'm looking at the back of the RRG right now, know what I see?

Declare target

Roll Attack Dice (Gather and roll attack dice)

Resolve Attack Effects (Spend accuracy, and resolve effects that modify dice.)

There are no gaps, you cannot legally use Intel Officer at the Roll attack step, it clearly says AFTER rolling.

You know what.

Believe that.

There is no window to ever use Intel Officer, and it is a useless, illegal card.......

Because Upgrade Cards Don't Modify the base rules at all now, do they>?

You Gather (obstructions go here)

You Roll (Additions go here)

Intel Officers Go here

You Modify (Rerolls, Accuracys, and Intel Officers go here )

Defender spends Defense Tokens (Lando/targetting scrambler, Evades, Brace, Redirect and Contain go here, Lando/TS, and Evades are resolved here.)

Attacker can generate a critical effect here.

Brace/Contain/Redirect are resolved here

Damage is applied here

So which stage of the attack is Intel Officer being used in?

After you roll the dice you are allowed to spend accuracys, and modify them, immediately after rolling them, you are in the Resolve Attack Effects step.

So which stage of the attack is Intel Officer being used in?

After you roll the dice you are allowed to spend accuracys, and modify them, immediately after rolling them, you are in the Resolve Attack Effects step.

So, if I had an upgrade card that said "While Attacking, Before Modifying Dice"

When would you use it?

Before Gathering Dice?

After Gathering Dice?

Before Rolling those Dice?

Or after Rolling those Dice, before Modifying them, in a similar space?

You know what.

Believe that.

There is no window to ever use Intel Officer, and it is a useless, illegal card.......

Because Upgrade Cards Don't Modify the base rules at all now, do they>?

Ah right, so the wording " After rolling your attack pool ." doesnt tell you when to use it?

I mean it says : Roll attack dice : Gather and roll the attack dice.