This is probly quite simple but here is the question anyway:
If a Red Squad Vet attacks (with a TL), gets say two hits and an eyeball, could he cancel the eye to get an evade token, then reroll the cancelled die with the TL and potentially get a third hit? And then use Juke after the opponent rolls defense dice? Im pretty sure this is valid, but any clarification would be nice.
Once a die is cancelled, it is removed from the play area ( see page 8 of the rule reference ), so no, you cannot reroll the cancelled die.
But you can use Juke on him, because you now have the evade token you need.
Edited by Parravon
Parravon is correct the order of operations is this:
1. Roll to attack
2. Modify Dice - This is where you cancel the eyeball (meaning now there are 2 dice on the table for the xwing)
3. opponent rolls evades
4. Juke
5. opponent modifies evade dice (i broke this out because people consistently confuse when juke procs)
Hope this helps.
Parravon is correct the order of operations is this:
1. Roll to attack
2. Modify Dice - This is where you cancel the eyeball (meaning now there are 2 dice on the table for the xwing)
3. opponent rolls evades
3.5 3PO adds evade result here
4. Juke
5. opponent modifies evade dice (i broke this out because people consistently confuse when juke procs)
Hope this helps.
Added 3.5 since I ran into this situation yesterday and had to look it up. It's found in the FAQ for the 3PO card and specifically says the 3PO evade result is available to be Juked to an eyeball.
Parravon is correct the order of operations is this:
1. Roll to attack
2. Modify Dice - This is where you cancel the eyeball (meaning now there are 2 dice on the table for the xwing)
3. opponent rolls evades
3.5 3PO adds evade result here
4. Juke
5. opponent modifies evade dice (i broke this out because people consistently confuse when juke procs)
Hope this helps.
Added 3.5 since I ran into this situation yesterday and had to look it up. It's found in the FAQ for the 3PO card and specifically says the 3PO evade result is available to be Juked to an eyeball.
Parravon is correct the order of operations is this:
1. Roll to attack
2. Modify Dice - This is where you cancel the eyeball (meaning now there are 2 dice on the table for the xwing)
3. opponent rolls evades
3.5 3PO adds evade result here
4. Juke
5. opponent modifies evade dice (i broke this out because people consistently confuse when juke procs)
Hope this helps.
Added 3.5 since I ran into this situation yesterday and had to look it up. It's found in the FAQ for the 3PO card and specifically says the 3PO evade result is available to be Juked to an eyeball.
I know right now the FAQ says this is the case with 3PO but there is a case made that this FAQ ruling is incorrect and may get over turned. The 3PO ruling came out before the new timing chart clarified the attack steps. 3PO's ability adds an evade result but according to the rules, added results happen in the Defender modifies dice step which would come after the Attacker modifies dice step (Juke).
Some may argue that because 3PO's ability triggers after the initial roll of the defense dice, the added result also happens immediately but the card doesn't say that specifically. The Concord Dawn Protectorate Title adds an evade result without even an pretense of a roll. You know its happening just from looking at the range and arcs of the ships. Would you argue that added result happens immediately after the defense dice roll?
Parravon is correct the order of operations is this:
1. Roll to attack
2. Modify Dice - This is where you cancel the eyeball (meaning now there are 2 dice on the table for the xwing)
3. opponent rolls evades
3.5 3PO adds evade result here
4. Juke
5. opponent modifies evade dice (i broke this out because people consistently confuse when juke procs)
Hope this helps.
Added 3.5 since I ran into this situation yesterday and had to look it up. It's found in the FAQ for the 3PO card and specifically says the 3PO evade result is available to be Juked to an eyeball.
I know right now the FAQ says this is the case with 3PO but there is a case made that this FAQ ruling is incorrect and may get over turned. The 3PO ruling came out before the new timing chart clarified the attack steps. 3PO's ability adds an evade result but according to the rules, added results happen in the Defender modifies dice step which would come after the Attacker modifies dice step (Juke).
Some may argue that because 3PO's ability triggers after the initial roll of the defense dice, the added result also happens immediately but the card doesn't say that specifically. The Concord Dawn Protectorate Title adds an evade result without even an pretense of a roll. You know its happening just from looking at the range and arcs of the ships. Would you argue that added result happens immediately after the defense dice roll?
No.
3PO's happens when it does *because the card says so*. And the FAQ backs that up.
CDP happens in the normal Defender Modifies Defence Dice step because it doesn't specify otherwise.
I know right now the FAQ says this is the case with 3PO but there is a case made that this FAQ ruling is incorrect and may get over turned. The 3PO ruling came out before the new timing chart clarified the attack steps. 3PO's ability adds an evade result but according to the rules, added results happen in the Defender modifies dice step which would come after the Attacker modifies dice step (Juke).
Nothing about this has changed with the new timing chart. 3PO has always had the "(before modifying dice)" clause, and although it took a clarification to really establish that they meant for 3PO to completely resolve before either of the "Modify Defense Dice" steps,* there's no reason to expect that ruling to change now, because nothing relevant to the operation of C-3PO has changed.
*: Rather than just hanging there in limbo until a later step, which is something that other effects in the game don't do (no, not even Concord Dawn Protector).
Some may argue that because 3PO's ability triggers after the initial roll of the defense dice, the added result also happens immediately but the card doesn't say that specifically.
You're right, the card doesn't specifically say that 3PO's result is added at the same time as the rest of the card's activation, but the FAQ does. (Well, it says that Juke works on 3PO's added result, which can only happen if 3PO adds that result before the normal modify defense dice steps, so yeah.)
The Concord Dawn Protectorate Title adds an evade result without even an pretense of a roll. You know its happening just from looking at the range and arcs of the ships. Would you argue that added result happens immediately after the defense dice roll?
Of course I wouldn't argue that the added evade result from the Concord Dawn Protector title comes immediately after rolling defense dice, because it's a dice modification that doesn't specify a nonstandard timing window, and therefore it happens during the normal timing window.
I know right now the FAQ says this is the case with 3PO but there is a case made that this FAQ ruling is incorrect and may get over turned. The 3PO ruling came out before the new timing chart clarified the attack steps. 3PO's ability adds an evade result but according to the rules, added results happen in the Defender modifies dice step which would come after the Attacker modifies dice step (Juke).
Some may argue that because 3PO's ability triggers after the initial roll of the defense dice, the added result also happens immediately but the card doesn't say that specifically. The Concord Dawn Protectorate Title adds an evade result without even an pretense of a roll. You know its happening just from looking at the range and arcs of the ships. Would you argue that added result happens immediately after the defense dice roll?
"according to the rules, added results happen in the Defender modifies dice step"
This is the part I disagree with. That's not what the rules say.
MODIFYING DICE
Players can modify dice by spending focus, evade, and target lock tokens and by resolving card abilities.
Dice can be modified in the following ways:
• Add: ...
• Change: ...
• Reroll: ...
The rules say that during their dice modification steps, the players can do 4 things:
The rules do is defined what a "Dice Modification" is (Adding, Changing and Rerolling).
Now, take a look at the cards that let you modify dice: Predator, Lone Wolf, Sensore Jammer, Mercenary Copilot, etc...
Notice this: none of them tell you when they resolve .
We know when to resolve them because of the rules I quoted above. Those rules tell us that during the "attacker/defender modifies attack/defense dice", we can "resolve card abilities that modify dice", where "modify dice" is defined as adding, changing or rerolling.
Now let's look at a couple other upgrade cards:
So yeah, all that just to explain what the rules section means...
What it all comes down to in simply that C-3P0 does have a specific trigger, and therefore happens on that trigger.
God I feel like this post is a mess. Not my best work
The Concord Dawn Protectorate Title adds an evade result without even an pretense of a roll. You know its happening just from looking at the range and arcs of the ships. Would you argue that added result happens immediately after the defense dice roll?
Of course I wouldn't argue that the added evade result from the Concord Dawn Protector title comes immediately after rolling defense dice, because it's a dice modification that doesn't specify a nonstandard timing window, and therefore it happens during the normal timing window.
The Concord Dawn Protectorate fighter is worded the exact same way as Predator, Lone Wolf, Sensor Jammer, and all other cards that trigger during the "XXX player modifies XXX dice" steps.
There is no reason to believe it would happen at any other time.
Therefore: the CDP evade is un-sensor-jammable!
The Concord Dawn Protectorate Title adds an evade result without even an pretense of a roll. You know its happening just from looking at the range and arcs of the ships. Would you argue that added result happens immediately after the defense dice roll?
Of course I wouldn't argue that the added evade result from the Concord Dawn Protector title comes immediately after rolling defense dice, because it's a dice modification that doesn't specify a nonstandard timing window, and therefore it happens during the normal timing window.
The Concord Dawn Protectorate fighter is worded the exact same way as Predator, Lone Wolf, Sensor Jammer, and all other cards that trigger during the "XXX player modifies XXX dice" steps.
There is no reason to believe it would happen at any other time.
Therefore: the CDP evade is un-sensor-jammable!
Well yes, it's an evade, sensor jammers jam [boom]s...
It is however un-Jukable, un-Zuckussable and un-those-astromechs-that-reroll-defence-dice-able.
Of course, this is quite impossible to a Red Squadron Veteran pilot unless he's somehow got Threepio jammed into the astromech socket of his X-wing.
Parravon is correct the order of operations is this:
1. Roll to attack
2. Modify Dice - This is where you cancel the eyeball (meaning now there are 2 dice on the table for the xwing)
3. opponent rolls evades
3.5 3PO adds evade result here
4. Juke
5. opponent modifies evade dice (i broke this out because people consistently confuse when juke procs)
Hope this helps.
Added 3.5 since I ran into this situation yesterday and had to look it up. It's found in the FAQ for the 3PO card and specifically says the 3PO evade result is available to be Juked to an eyeball.
Except that per the original post it is the Red Squadron Veteran that would be "Juking" the 3PO added result so it is in fact very much possible since it would be the RSV's opponent that had 3PO on a ship.
Therefore: the CDP evade is un-sensor-jammable!
Well yes, it's an evade, sensor jammers jam [boom]s...
It is however un-Jukable, un-Zuckussable and un-those-astromechs-that-reroll-defence-dice-able.
Yes... Juke is what I meant! My bad
