Hello Everyone! I've been a long time follower of this forum and this is my first post (woo). Anywho on to business.

My buddy and I will be doing a 2v2 Epic 400 pt (200 pts per team mate) tournament later this month. As of right now my team mate plans on running the gozanti along with an escort of bombers.

I plan on using the Raider and whatever else complements our forces. I've never played epic and therefore have no experience outfitting the raider. The plan is finish the Raider first then fill with other ships. Any ideas or suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks!

I heard you like ordnance...

I heard you like ordnance...

Raider-class Corvette (Fore) (50)

Homing Missiles (5)

Cluster Bombs (4)

Raider-class Corvette (Aft) (50)

Weapons Engineer (3)

Targeting Coordinator (4)

Homing Missiles (5)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Ordnance Experts (5)

Sensor Team (4)

Tibanna Gas Supplies (4)

Ordnance Tubes (5)

Impetuous (3)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Guidance Chips (0)

Gamma Squadron Veteran (19)

Deadeye (1)

Extra Munitions (2)

Homing Missiles (5)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 200

My FLGS will be doing something similar in October. Its a very common trap to fall into to go straight for a fully loaded out Huge Ship. The trick with it is to make it worth those points. The Raider loadout listed above only comes into its own at ranges 1+2, and can't really dish out the pain that way. Also, beware Boba Fett on your precious ordinance tubes. He may be the best card in the game in epic play.

It seems that a lot of what that raider is doing is trying to buff the Gamma Squad Vets, which is great. The only problem is that a Captain Jonus shuttle does the same thing, better, and for 30 points. Since your partner is already using the Gozanti, you're really pushing it by adding a raider into the mix. I'd recommend having either your partner ditch the Gozanti or you ditch the Raider for team epic.

Assuming that your partner will be taking the Gozanti, here's my recommendation on what you should take:

Captain Jonus (22)

Fleet Officer (3)

Systems Officer (2)

Veteran instincts (1)

TIE Mk II (1)

4 x Gamma Squadron Veterans (19)

Homing Missiles (5)

Cluster Missiles (4)

Extra Munitions (2)

Seismic Charges (2)

Deadeye (1)

Guidance Chips (0)

Glaive Squadron Pilot (34)

Predator (3)

Tractor Beam (1)

TIE/D (0)

Total: 199 pts

The idea here is that Jonus can hand out what is effectively 3 actions per turn to his fellow bombers. This gives them some great double action economy. The bombers themselves can use homing missiles at range 3 to reliably score 4 hits each (using a combination of target lock focus, Jonus rerolls and guidance chips), and cluster missiles at ranges 1-2 to reliably score about 5 hits each. Even if an enemy Raider uses the reinforce action on its fore section, it will be reduced to 2 hull in the first barrage from just the four bombers, and the Glaive can easily finish it. Finally the Glaive fires just before your bombers and acts as a "Painter" with its tractor beam to (hopefully) reduce an AGI 2 target down to AGI 1 for the bombers or, even better, and AGI 1 target down to AGI 0.

Just as a few examples: These bombers can reliably one-shot 3 TIEs a turn, and probably 4 at close range. The seismic charges - of which each bomber has two - are a very serious discouragement to swarms rushing you. Firing at PS 5 you shoot before all huge ships and before almost all swarms.Finally, your squad has some very decent staying power with 6 hull per ship, and a minimum of 2 agility.

Granted, you don't have one of the enormously fun Huge ships on the board, bu if you're facing any given huge ship across the board, you will win (give or take every few rounds). Against quite a few swarms, you will kill half of them before they get to fire. Even the great Soontir Fel will fall to four homing missile shots. There are only two lists I'd watch out for: 6 Contracted scouts with the standard build, and 6 Glaives with the X/7 title, as they both have the health to really put the hurt on you.

Regardless of whether you go with a huge ship or not, good luck at that tournament of yours.

Thanks Astech, you've given me some good info to mull over. My only qualm is I so badly want to fly the raider since I've never used it lol. I can't deny the effectiveness of the bomber list you posted though.

If your buddy decides not to bring the gozanti, the raider is all kinds of fun. I've flown mine 11 times (would love more table time with it, but standard play is juat easier in the afternoon most often). Just remember, if you bring a raider maximize its fire power. My two go to builds are:

Raider fore (68)

-Quad laser cannons

-tibanna gas suplies

-sensor team

-"Instigator"

Raider Aft (74)

-quad laser cannons

-quad laser cannons

-weapons engineer

-shield technician

-engine booster

-optomized generators

Makes for a nore survivable ship for the long game. Sensor team with weapons engineer is golden 2 target locks for those lovely primary attacks.

Raider fore (63)

-"Impetuous"

-quad laser cannons

-sensor team

Raider aft (72)

-ordnance tubes

-cluster missiles

-cluster missiles

-weapons engineer

-rear admiral chiraneau

-engine booster

This raider screams get close, I Dare You! Of course, any raider likes a captain jonus buddy, and if you bring jonus more secondary weapons arent a terrible idea. /D defenders are amazing in epic, punishers are alright as well (gamma vets are probably the better bet though). Either way though, one of you has to play the numbers game, so if your buddy does bring a gozanti, flying lots of ships (ties) falls to you.

The trick with it is to make it worth those points. The Raider loadout listed above only comes into its own at ranges 1+2, and can't really dish out the pain that way.

Wait, what? The Raider I proposed has mostly weapons that fire at Ranges 2-3 for the missiles, or 2-4 for the primary. Also, 5 attacks isn't that bad. Two from the bombers and 3 from the Raider itself (from the front arc, on the initial joust. You can get more if you've got enemies in the front and side arc at the same time)

It seems that a lot of what that raider is doing is trying to buff the Gamma Squad Vets, which is great.

Actually, the Raider has the ability to assist the Gamma Vets, but most of the toys (Targeting Coordinator and Ordnance Experts) are for the Raider to use itself. The fact that it can lend those toys to the escorts is a bonus.

Also, beware Boba Fett on your precious ordinance tubes. He may be the best card in the game in epic play.

That's a pretty valid concern, but I'd say that you have 5 pretty big attacks in the first round of combat, so just focus fire the Boba Ship and hope to peel it off the board before it gets into your hull. This build is setup so that you should always be able to use the reinforce action early game and recover in the late game. The missiles don't use much in the way of energy, and you get your target locks by using the Targeting Coordinator.

Anyway, I probably agree that it's typically more efficient to use a pile of cheaper ships, but the OP stated that he was interested in a mean Raider, and I think this is a decent offense build that's not too energy hungry and still gives you plenty of Target Locks to modify your attacks.

Wait, what? The Raider I proposed has mostly weapons that fire at Ranges 2-3 for the missiles, or 2-4 for the primary. Also, 5 attacks isn't that bad. Two from the bombers and 3 from the Raider itself (from the front arc, on the initial joust. You can get more if you've got enemies in the front and side arc at the same time)

By which I meant, the raider only comes into its own once enemy ships close to Ranges 1 and 2, as cluster missiles/bombs only take effect in that area.

You can get up to 7 attacks per turn, and don't get me wrong, I'm in favour of your Raider build, as its pretty much what I'd go with if I had to use it.

Actually, the Raider has the ability to assist the Gamma Vets, but most of the toys (Targeting Coordinator and Ordnance Experts) are for the Raider to use itself. The fact that it can lend those toys to the escorts is a bonus.

The thing about ordnance experts is that its a 5 point guidance chips. I think the points are better served on the bombers to give them more than 2 shots each. Targeting coordinator is great though.

That's a pretty valid concern, but I'd say that you have 5 pretty big attacks in the first round of combat, so just focus fire the Boba Ship and hope to peel it off the board before it gets into your hull.

That's certainly the best way to deal with Boba. However, the two ships you can expect to see Boba on are Degar and the YV-666. So I don't think you'll kill them in round 1, especially if they dodge your side arcs. And they'll shoot before you the next turn to do what's needed.

I totally agree that your Raider build is great, and eve if nobody goes with a 5 bomber epic squadron, its good to be aware of what such things can do.

So what is the main verdict on competitive builds in this case, one teammate brings a loaded huge ship w/ support and the other focuses on a swarm? Or can can each teammate bring a huge ship and still be competitive?

"Competitive" is a tricky word. You can win games, absolutely, with a double epic ship force. However, the odds can be far further in your favour if you take numerous smaller ships. This means that in a competitive setting (such as a tournament with multiple rounds you'll have more victories with the flexibility that small ships provide.

If one person brings a huge ship, the other really needs to focus on the fighter screen for said huge ship, as they are truly terrible on their own. On the other hand, the Gozanti is cheap enough that both players can run one and not really suffer for it. That said, a Raider can be build to account for its vulnerability to swarms:

Raider (Fore) (50)

Homing Missiles (5)

Sensor Team (4)

Ionisation Reactor (4)

Impetuous (3)

Raider (Aft) (50)

Slicer Tools (7)

Ordnance Tubes (5)

Assault Missiles (5)

Assault Missiles (5)

Mara Jade (3)

Weapons Engineer (3)

Captain Jonus (22)

Squad Leader (2)

Systems Officer (2)

TIE Mk II (1)

2 x Academy Pilot (12)

Total: 200 points.

The idea of the Academies is to run interference for the Raider on the front (one slightly to the left and one slightly to the right. This helps prevent the Raider from being rushed at range 1 from the side, which is one of the best ways to kill a Huge ship. Jonus flies alongside the Raider and feeds it a target lock and probably a reinforce action each turn, giving it 4 actions a turn, plus rerolls on most of its weaponry.

The raider itself comes to 149 points, but has some neat tricks, all of which are centered around Mara Jade. First of all, the change to double assault missiles in the rear are great against swarms, or just shoot at the opposing Huge ships and watch the chaos ensue. Now, the missiles aren't what make the Raider special here, its the cargo:

1. Fly the Raider straight at the enemy fleet, or whatever is the largest grouping of ships.

2. Mara Jade stresses every ship at range 1 at the end of the combat phase.

3. Ionisation Reactor is triggered at the start of the next turn, so any ship that hasn't cleared its Mara stress gets ionised as well, and everything takes a damage.

4. Slicer tools give everything that's still stressed another damage.

5. Rinse and repeat, with the exception of the Ionisation reactor.

This combination of abilities means that anything in range 1 gets area of effect damage, and anything at range 2-3 gets area of effect damage. This build can dish out over 20 damage a turn in the right circumstances. The only trick is in getting it into range 1 before the fore section gets crippled.

That could be pretty competitive.

Raider with Rear Admiral Chiraneau, Engine Booster and Automated Protocols - 111 pts - Each turn Ram, Reinforce, Shoot Primary Twice.

PS1 TIE Interceptor - 18pts x4

Mauler Mithel - 17 pts

Thanks for the input everyone! I'll post a joint-list of what my buddy and I decide on later. Thanks for the analysis Astech on what makes an epic build comptetitive too, love that super range 1 combo build too.

I still think the ordnance raider is a solid raider, but after consideration I decided that I agree with Astech that my initial proposal did perhaps pay too high a premium for upgrades that probably weren't worth that much (Mostly Ordnance Experts, although it can also easily do without Cluster Bombs and Gas Supplies).

All the raider really needs is the following: