I expanded a bit on my idea how to bank lategame ships for until they can move less threatened.

Gozanti-class Cruiser (56)
Gozanti-Class Cruiser (40), Rear Admiral Chiraneau (3), Dual Laser Turret (5), Docking Clamps (0), Engine Booster (3), Automated Protocols (5)

Soontir Fel (32)
TIE Interceptor (27), Royal Guard TIE (0), Push the Limit (3), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

Carnor Jax (31)
TIE Interceptor (26), Push the Limit (3), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

125 points, thats quite a bit. However you can just ruthlessly smash you Gonzanti into the opponents small ships and then when they are decimated a bit you unleash the Squints. Hopefully full health, but with SD the difference of 3 or 2 health isn't too terrible. This needs to be paired with a bulk of ships, preferably TIE-Fighters. Say, 10 TIE Fighters including Howlrunner all with Crackshot paired with Omega Squadron FOs with Crackshot. Ignoring the difficulty of affording 12 CSs thats an extremely strong list.

Maybe mix it up a bit, have 7 TIEs (Howlrunner, 6 BSPs) and 2 Glaives with CS. YOu go down to 9 instead of 12 small ships, but that doesn't have to be a downside when you factor player fatigue and match speed into the equation. Anyhow, the fighters are there to shred the huge ships, the Gonzanti and its payload then are supposed to mop up the opponents fighters.

At that point you might as well chuck a couple of RGPs on there as well.

That would be merely for style. The Glaive version had such a lucky point spread. Howlrunner, start adding Glaives, oh 90 points left, throw in 6 BSPs. I believe this could be a contender for an amazing epic list close to the top of the meta. If there was a big epic tournament near me, thats what I would aim for. 5 Crackshots don't seem too unrealistic to borrow. Maybe even just 3 if I get 2 more K-Things at some point.

I wonder how a 300 point list comprised entirely of Mindlink ships would do.

That seems pretty **** effective.

...And take one stress token.

But yeah, with, say, one scyk at the back trolling around focusing, it's quite a nice idea.

Denying energy to the huge ships (in my admittedly limited experience, huge ships live or die by energy management.)

Most of the time. A corvette armed for missile duels, however, will largely ignore ion weapons.

Homing missiles are nice - especially with jonus in train.

My favoured 'support ship' for a missile boat raider is:

• Captain Jonus, TIE Shuttle, Swarm Tactics, Systems Officer

If you pack a weapons officer and the Impetuous title on the raider, I'd recommend taking two assault missiles and one homing missile. Fire the assault missiles into a 'pack', then finish off whoever's most wounded with the main guns and homing missiles, then fire the other assault missile with the newly-acquired target lock.

Again, given the numbers of ships and the space on the board, assault missiles tend to have a field day.

I think the worst thing I did was take an entire TIE squadron of Black Squadron Pilots with crack shot and Youngster with Rage as 2/3 of the squad. My opponent set up opposite me. I'm not proud of what happened.

Oh - which reminds me of one other important rule:

• You and your opponent are both able to deploy up to Range 2 into the board. This means that anything able to move at speed 5 can realistically get shots on turn 1 if both sides simply close to contact. If you're planning to do anything before shots are exchanged (storing up tokens, handing out long range target locks, etc) make sure you've allowed enough time to do this!

Played Epic last night; Rebel corvette vs. Imps corvette-busters. I was Imps and lost, but a few pointers that I gained:

TAPs x1 and Defenders x7 seem to be the best Starfighters available; the built in evade makes them much more durable in Epic play than many of the other Imperial starfighters.

Defender D + Tractor Beam is both hilarious and useful. One or two is probably all you need.

Punishers make great capital ship busters; low PS pilots set up after the corvette and can be thus placed on best part of the table for immediate alpha strikes.

Advanced Homing Missiles rock--crits on a capital ship are more devastating than dropping shields and hull points, since taking systems offline cripples the ship's capabilities; kill the guts first, finish the hull second.

I play with two other guys most weeks (each one of us has specialised in one faction - rebels/scum/imperial). We play 3 player games, and so far we have found the best format with regards to points is 130pts for the single player vs 140pts for the pair on the other side. The pair get an extra 10pts for their build because we have a house rule that they can't show each other their dials, with all discussions on tactics to be open and heard by all players.

The point structure allows for the pair to have a large variation in build options (when we tried to stick to the standard 100pt mark with the pair having nearer to 50pts each they were very limited). It also makes for some interesting single player builds.

As we have all specialised in individual factions we can only use upgrade cards from those faction ships, which has also led to interesting builds and at the same time it has stopped us from going down the meta route - which I think is a good thing (e.g. Imperial don't have autothrusters or engine upgrade, but I still field Soontir and Vader, and they pull their weight. Scum don't have guidance chips so we don't have U-boats everywhere etc...)

... So you prevent rebels from having the huge ship balance patches? I mean, at all?

I w

Oh - which reminds me of one other important rule:

• You and your opponent are both able to deploy up to Range 2 into the board. This means that anything able to move at speed 5 can realistically get shots on turn 1 if both sides simply close to contact. If you're planning to do anything before shots are exchanged (storing up tokens, handing out long range target locks, etc) make sure you've allowed enough time to do this!

On a 3x6' board? How do you move so fast?

I w

Oh - which reminds me of one other important rule:

• You and your opponent are both able to deploy up to Range 2 into the board. This means that anything able to move at speed 5 can realistically get shots on turn 1 if both sides simply close to contact. If you're planning to do anything before shots are exchanged (storing up tokens, handing out long range target locks, etc) make sure you've allowed enough time to do this!

On a 3x6' board? How do you move so fast?

You start width wise... 3 ft deep, not 6...

X-Wings are good in Epic. The best X-Wing ace is Luke, because his ability gets so much more mileage because of that many more ships attacking him.

X-Wings are cheap enough that you can field a LOT of them, have torp slots, have high enough agility to not worry about turbolasers, and have a lot of HP. Red Squad Pilots are basically the building blocks of Rebel Epic meta. They suffer from basically NONE of the drawbacks that they normally would in 100 Pt. play:

Lack of Reposition: Normally, this mostly translates to "Can't get stuff in arc". In Epic, as many have already said, you're going to have SOMETHING in arc to shoot at. It's nice to have boost to get places faster, but T-70s are just as good for that reason. Get some Red Squad Vets if you want something with boost(the extra shield helps too).

Lack of Jousting ability: This stems from the fact that in 100 pt. dogfight, T-65s are too expensive for what they do. This isn't really true in Epic. Considering you're fielding at least 4 in any given group, and you'll have multiple groups of T-65s, The enemy simply... can't kill enough X-Wings to save their own ships, and at PS4, your enemy will either shoot AFTER you, or be forced to bid upwards, meaning they're running less stuff than you now. You'll end up throwing more dice either way. You can have about 12 Red Squad Pilot X-Wings with Plasma Torps(one will have to have Seismic Torps or something) at once, which is awesome. That'll MELT huge ships.

Overshadowed by other, better ships: At least a few waves back, the B-Wing was just straight up better, in nearly every way. In Epic, B-Wings are worse in nearly every way. They fall below minimum acceptable agility of 2, cost one more point, are slower by a significant degree on the double-sized table, and so on.

The T-70 may also be worth looking at, for none of the reasons you'd expect. Yes, it has boost, which matters a lot on the table. Yes, it has an additional shield, making them even harder to pop.

The T-70 is important, because the Red Squad Vet has an EPT slot. Black Squad Pilots with Crackshot scare me less than a Red Squad Vet with Crackshot scares me. Or how about competing with Royal Guard Pilots and Glaive Squad Pilots with VI? An outbid CrackBlack is a dead CrackBlack, at least in Epic, especially when you're talking about running 10 PS6 T-70s, 6 of whom could be packing Plasma Torps.

T-70s not being strictly better than T-65s; you do get 2 more T-65s, which translates to an immediate increase on dice output and strength in sheer size. T-70s do have the flexibility advantage, but at the cost of, well... cost.

As for astromechs, you're probably actually going to want to use R5 Astros, because with that many ships and damage cards going around, R5s will probably end up being more useful than R2 Astro, just by the reasonable assumption that with a larger sample size you will see it trigger enough times to matter. You do have IA for the crits it doesn't cover, too.

Agreed on all points (re X-wings, anyway!). T-65 X-wings are suprisingly good in epic. Red Squadron Pilots can afford Integrated Astromech and a 1-2 point 'mech' and do very well on the deal.

I think Targeting Astromechs are not bad for them either; again - a heavy barrage of primary weapons is one of the squad's key tricks, so getting to keep throwing out target locks after a mass K-turn hurts like hell.

The X-wings with torps don't really need an astromech - because you'll take guidance chips for that lovely garuanteed critical. Crits really, really hurt epic ships.

T-70s are nice - more for - as noted - boost. When engaging a huge ship - especially a raider corvette - there's a good argument for not even trying to engage it on the first pass but to pac-man your way up the flank at a safe-ish range and then come in from behind. Boost on the T-70 helps save a turn or so before your flanking force gets into the fight, and/or means you can avoid drifting into the range 4 'death cone' of the raider where you're getting hit by forward hardpoints, double-tapping primary weapons and broadside hardpoints.

Crack Shot TIE fighters remain scary. Yes, you'll lose a shed-load of them but you can field a full squadron plus other stuff, and a lot of things that aren't cost-effective become so in epic. I concur that pilot skill is an issue - which is why I'd reach for Youngster with Rage, not Howlrunner; the rerolls don't go away just because youngster dies, and with so many ships firing, at least one will be benefitting from getting to reroll multiple dice, not just one.

generic pilots and named support pilots come into their own and it its a whole different game.

when i see people complain about pilot x or have never used pilot y, my first reaction is have you used them in epic

I resent the B-wing comment

They are great Proton carriers but they do die awfully fast. Daggers just don't cut it in the PS world.

Disclaimer:. I use them in Epic build. Now for those not using a huge ship. Consider a few ION Torps... Especially if you have a chance to pincher move or come around behind them. Assault Missile same thing.

4 Brobots +Bugzapper swarm FTW!

I resent the B-wing comment

They are great Proton carriers but they do die awfully fast. Daggers just don't cut it in the PS world.

Disclaimer:. I use them in Epic build. Now for those not using a huge ship. Consider a few ION Torps... Especially if you have a chance to pincher move or come around behind them. Assault Missile same thing.

My brother has good luck with multiple B-wings in Epic. Not very dodgy, but they can give and take a lot of damage.

If epic points weren't a limitation, 6 Gozantis would be pretty awesome.

If epic points weren't a limitation, 6 Gozantis would be pretty awesome.

The limitation is only in your mind. . .ask nicely and maybe someone will play a match like that for fun.

Speaking of which, we often decide on a loose theme for the next battle. Like "you show up with a corvette and I try to blow it up" or "you have to fly the Lambda Shuttle."

It can make it a little more fun because you can tailor your squad just a little and field stuff you might not normally use or that you want to try out. The details are vague enough that there is still a lot of freedom in list building.

It sorta makes sense in a certain way--no military force is going to jump in cold with no intel at all.

Lots of support ships that eat up too many points in standard play really shine in epic. Such as mold crow setup to pass focus, Dutch, Jonus, etc.

Any area effect weapon, like assault missiles but also bombs are very good. area denial tactics are a bigger issue, there are more ships on the board plus the big boys = more places you do not want to be.

Tie bomber wings really work well, especially gamma vets. If you have always really wanted to make a bomber wing work, now you can.

The huge ship fixes made huge ships pull their weight. I'm a big fan of ordnance tubes with assault missiles myself.

Low agility ships (decimator, and ships with one agility) can get trashed fast by turbolasers and huge ship primary weapons. In general, it's easier to block most large base ships.

Tough beats slippery in epic.

If epic points weren't a limitation, 6 Gozantis would be pretty awesome.

The limitation is only in your mind. . .ask nicely and maybe someone will play a match like that for fun.

Speaking of which, we often decide on a loose theme for the next battle. Like "you show up with a corvette and I try to blow it up" or "you have to fly the Lambda Shuttle."

It can make it a little more fun because you can tailor your squad just a little and field stuff you might not normally use or that you want to try out. The details are vague enough that there is still a lot of freedom in list building.

It sorta makes sense in a certain way--no military force is going to jump in cold with no intel at all.

I only have access to 2 Gozantis...and have rather a lot of ships to buy already: Wave 9, 10, and a Mist Hunter; plus another storage case; plus any duplicates of those ships I feel I need; etc.

Otherwise, yes, I also like having a theme. I just need more opportunities to actually play - once a month at the moment, apart from against my kids.

If epic points weren't a limitation, 6 Gozantis would be pretty awesome.

The limitation is only in your mind. . .ask nicely and maybe someone will play a match like that for fun.

Speaking of which, we often decide on a loose theme for the next battle. Like "you show up with a corvette and I try to blow it up" or "you have to fly the Lambda Shuttle."

It can make it a little more fun because you can tailor your squad just a little and field stuff you might not normally use or that you want to try out. The details are vague enough that there is still a lot of freedom in list building.

It sorta makes sense in a certain way--no military force is going to jump in cold with no intel at all.

I only have access to 2 Gozantis...and have rather a lot of ships to buy already: Wave 9, 10, and a Mist Hunter; plus another storage case; plus any duplicates of those ships I feel I need; etc.

Otherwise, yes, I also like having a theme. I just need more opportunities to actually play - once a month at the moment, apart from against my kids.

Yes indeed, to both those issues. I basically only play against my brother, about once a month.

I have 3 Goz, but could "surrogate" with GR-75s and/or borrow ships from my brother. Still, I hadn't thought about the difficulty of simply HAVING 6 Gozs.

Actually played quite a lot of Epic games - some general rules and the logic behind them:

1. Mid- and high-level generics are good. Because you're firing with 300 points of stuff, you're actually removing ships, not just shield tokens. Shooting last with the bulk of your squad means arguably never shooting at all.
2. Arc dodgers are bad. Even in a 'standard' epic game, you've got three-to-four times as much stuff on twice the board area; hence the 'density' of fire arcs goes up dramatically so there are fewer gaps to hide in. Equally, defences which rely on having enough tokens to soak 100 points of fire per turn (soontir, say, with focus/focus/evade/palpatine) rather than 'every time you attack' abilities (like autothrusters or lone wolf) find themselves catastrophically short with an extra 50-100 points shooting at them.
3. Shield regenerators the same. Anything which gets boresighted by 200-300 points of guns ain't gonna see the next end phase.
4. Alpha strikers are one build which does work fairly well, provided they've got the pilot skill to make it work - remember your opponent is likely to have enough PS9+ships to kill a 'lynchpin' like Blount before it can do whatever it normally does. Targeting management is also a problem - Deadeye is your friend.
5. 'Friendly ships within X radius' abilities are awesome. Howlrunner is one of the most popular imperial pilots in normal play. In epic, she's a reroll-spitting nightmare. Similarly, Corran Horn suffers from not being Etahn A'Baht, not the other way around.
6. Unlimited range abilities are awesome for the same reason. Captain Kagi can annoy an entire battlefield of epic ships and long range scanners, and has space to run away in.
7. Slow ships can suffer. In a normal game, the difference in maximum speed between a T-70 X-wing and a B-wing is pretty negligible. In an epic game, on a double-sized board, boosting X-wings are fast enough to 'flank' and to 'redeploy' a meaningful distance if they get a couple of turns without being shot at. If a B-wing gets stuck in the wrong place, it's pretty much out of the fight.
8. Medium Agility matters (I mean, so does high agility, but the jump from medium to high matters more) - in an epic game, turbolasers means you can be under fire a turn early by a nasty heavy laser cannon analogue. Doubling your agility means that the difference between agility 1 (say B-wings) and agility 2 (say X-wings) is much more noticeable.

Great post!

The only thing I would add is to stress the value ships with an attack value of 3

I can't count how many games I've played where I have just missed taking down a Huge Ship with an ordnance salvo from a Bomber wing or a flight of headhunters, and then had the huge ship reinforce and regenerate while I ineffectually plinked at it with my 2 attack pop guns.

Huge ships are squishy in the early game but can be a monstrous PITA if they survive to the mid-late game stages - so you need a plan to deal with that.

So what about Ordnance Epic ships with tubes versus Secondary Hard points energy users

Those turbolasers seem quite situational for their points but homing missiles with some support upgrades look good.

Ion cannons crit effect and ions firing last could work well but ion missiles do twice as many ions if only after energy depletion.

So many options

So what about Ordnance Epic ships with tubes versus Secondary Hard points energy users

Those turbolasers seem quite situational for their points but homing missiles with some support upgrades look good.

Both work, but you need to build around either.

Ordnance Tubes are nice - it means you have more energy at your disposal for shield management, and double-tapping the main guns, and you have access to lots of nice 'special purpose' ordance. Homing missiles are good, assault missiles andor ion torpedoes are lethal against massed ships. It largely becomes a game of target lock management - the Impetuous Title Card, and a Weapons Engineer, are both **** near compulsory on an ordnance raider.

I would also recommend Captain Jonus, Swarm Tactics, TIE Shuttle, Systems Officer flying wing.

I would strongly recommend at least one tube pack homing missiles to cut down the number of target locks you need - probably the Fore hardpoint (because if you lose the stern, you lose the ability to target lock; if you still have a lock the homing missiles can keep shooting, and Impetuous lets you shift target when/if you kill it).

Missile raiders are great against swarms - small ships and large ships - and with homing missiles are very good at taking down token-ed up interceptors.

Where they struggle more is against another large ship; a raider with Turbolasers desperately needs Optimised Generators and a Tibanna Gas Supplies cargo or two, but in return you get the ability to strike from outside your opponent's range. 4 dice with a focus-to-hit (which few big ships can do!) is scary as hell, and a rival large ship lacks any agility.

Firing turbolasers at interceptors is a waste of effort, but 4 dice can still rip B-wings and Y-wings a new one; yes, they get an extra agility, but they don't get any bonus evade dice (it's still a secondary weapon), so it's just as hard to avoid as primary weapons.