Now I know what you're going to say, flotillas totally can't cause damage when they ram a ship like the Victory. It's in the rules dork!

Ah, but this totally happened this weekend at a tournament held at FFGC, and here's how the GR75 was able to do that.

See my Victory happened to have received the Damaged Controls crit. (actually twice!)

So let's all read the card together:

When you overlap a ship or obstacle, deal 1 facedown damage card to your ship (in addition to all other obstacle effects)

So there you have it, the little &*(^&*%^&*$%^ thing over the course of two turns rammed for me for 2 damage, since obviously I wouldn't take the default damage but the flotilla is overlapping and it is a ship so the Victory would take the secondary damage for the effects of the crit card. Also the TO did rule that while I had two crit cards, they don't stack since you don't suffer the effect more than once.

And there you have it.... there's a GR75 captain out there with the silhouette of a VSD painted on it's side and rightly so.

When you overlap a ship or obstacle, deal 1 facedown damage card to your ship (in addition to all other obstacle effects)

Not to spoil your bubble, but the you on this card refers to you the ship. So when the GR75 rammed the Victory, the victory did not overlap any ships or obstacles, as it did not move, so no damage for the victory.

https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/192502-damaged-controlsramming/

Wrong on both counts actually

Nope.

What if the Flotilla blocked the VSD, so the VSD ends its movement on an obstacle?

the flotilla wasn't blocking the VSD, it was ramming into the side.

While I appreciate the potential for "we got the rules wrong", this was a TO ruling and in this case, I very much trust and defer to this TO...

Pulling the sentence apart, I do see how to interpret the word "overlap" two ways here. Is it an action or is it a state?

If as an action, it's something performed. IE the VSD does to the flotilla or as something the flotilla does to the VSD. I think that's the wrong way to look at it, because in the ARR, page 8, it's defined as if you are overlapped then you suffer an effect. That's a "test" as it work, you're either overlapped or you're not and therefore you know if you should apply the effect. Which for VSD vs flotilla, the default is no damage for the VSD. However given the face up dmg card.

Who knows, maybe we'll see a FAQ update.

What if the Flotilla blocked the VSD, so the VSD ends its movement on an obstacle?

Then the flotilla would take 1 damage for the ram.

The victory would take 1 hull damage as the crit card effect for overlapping a ship.

The victory would take 1 face up card for the asteroid.

The victory would take 1 hull damage as the crit card effect for overlapping an obstacle.

When YOU OVERLAP.

Not when YOU'RE OVERLAPPED.

Big difference.

And the two identical crits do 'stack'. Not that it mattered here.

the flotilla wasn't blocking the VSD, it was ramming into the side.

While I appreciate the potential for "we got the rules wrong", this was a TO ruling and in this case, I very much trust and defer to this TO...

Pulling the sentence apart, I do see how to interpret the word "overlap" two ways here. Is it an action or is it a state?

If as an action, it's something performed. IE the VSD does to the flotilla or as something the flotilla does to the VSD. I think that's the wrong way to look at it, because in the ARR, page 8, it's defined as if you are overlapped then you suffer an effect. That's a "test" as it work, you're either overlapped or you're not and therefore you know if you should apply the effect. Which for VSD vs flotilla, the default is no damage for the VSD. However given the face up dmg card.

Who knows, maybe we'll see a FAQ update.

Sorry dude, regardless of how much you trust the TO, you're both wrong. A flotilla causes no overlap to a ship or vice versa. Check the preview announcement from way back.

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/3/16/bigger-battles-better-tactics/

the flotilla wasn't blocking the VSD, it was ramming into the side.

While I appreciate the potential for "we got the rules wrong", this was a TO ruling and in this case, I very much trust and defer to this TO...

Pulling the sentence apart, I do see how to interpret the word "overlap" two ways here. Is it an action or is it a state?

If as an action, it's something performed. IE the VSD does to the flotilla or as something the flotilla does to the VSD. I think that's the wrong way to look at it, because in the ARR, page 8, it's defined as if you are overlapped then you suffer an effect. That's a "test" as it work, you're either overlapped or you're not and therefore you know if you should apply the effect. Which for VSD vs flotilla, the default is no damage for the VSD. However given the face up dmg card.

Who knows, maybe we'll see a FAQ update.

Sorry dude, regardless of how much you trust the TO, you're both wrong. A flotilla causes no overlap to a ship or vice versa. Check the preview announcement from way back.https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/3/16/bigger-battles-better-tactics/

In this case, the crit was causing the damage, not the flotilla itself.

He covered that in the OP.

@Tom, yeah, I believe that the crit only applies when you yourself overlap the obstacle or ship.

A flotilla is neither a ship nor an obstacle, it is a flotilla.

A flotilla is neither a ship nor an obstacle, it is a flotilla.

It also says, overlap or be overlapped by another. Pretty clear Tgall.

Hmm. Scanning rather than reading is sometimes bad.

"You" refers to that ship, "Friendly" refers to all ships you control and "Another" is ships other than the ship the card is on.

In this case the TO cheated you by not knowing the rules properly.

Remember, only the ship moving is considered to be overlapping. The other ship is being overlapped

A flotilla is neither a ship nor an obstacle, it is a flotilla.

A flotilla is a ship. It says so on the reference card in the article you linked.

It also says, overlap or be overlapped by another. Pretty clear Tgall.

Right, that's just the default effect. That was never in question.

Remember, only the ship moving is considered to be overlapping. The other ship is being overlapped

You're making the case that overlap isn't a state and instead is an action. Again I point to the rules which treat it as a state. Likewise the crit card text at the top of this point also treats it like a state, not a verb. It doesn't say overlapping, it doesn't say overlapped, it says overlap.

Anyway, we'll see if this ends up in the next updated FAQ....

We have already had an Email Guidance on it...

It stated that:

A Ship with the Critical Card in Question, when it moves, overlaps a ship, will take 2 Cards. (one for the Overlap, one for the Crit).

However, That Ship, with the Critical Card, is Hit by another Ship, when the other ship is moving, will only take 1 Damage from the Overlap. As it is not Moving.

To Overlap, you must execute a Maneuver.

Remember, only the ship moving is considered to be overlapping. The other ship is being overlapped

You're making the case that overlap isn't a state and instead is an action. Again I point to the rules which treat it as a state. Likewise the crit card text at the top of this point also treats it like a state, not a verb. It doesn't say overlapping, it doesn't say overlapped, it says overlap.

Anyway, we'll see if this ends up in the next updated FAQ....

It likely won't be in the FAQ because as Drasnighta has showm it has come up in the past. If you read the rules it is very clear on when things happen.

What if the Flotilla blocked the VSD, so the VSD ends its movement on an obstacle?

Then the flotilla would take 1 damage for the ram.

The victory would take 1 hull damage as the crit card effect for overlapping a ship.

The victory would take 1 face up card for the asteroid.

The victory would take 1 hull damage as the crit card effect for overlapping an obstacle.

Flotilla takes a face down for being rammed.

Victory takes obstacle damage.

Victory takes a face down for the damaged controls, which triggers once for the maneuver, per damaged control card if multiple.

Yeah that sounds right. I'm pretty sure damaged controls only triggers once for an entire maneuver, regardless of how many ships or obstacles you would have overlapped.

What if the Flotilla blocked the VSD, so the VSD ends its movement on an obstacle?

Then the flotilla would take 1 damage for the ram.

The victory would take 1 hull damage as the crit card effect for overlapping a ship.

The victory would take 1 face up card for the asteroid.

The victory would take 1 hull damage as the crit card effect for overlapping an obstacle.

Wait. I think this is false. So flotilla blocks victory, that then back tracks and lands on obstacle, while affected by damaged controls, right?

Flotilla takes a face down for being rammed.

Victory takes obstacle damage.

Victory takes a face down for the damaged controls, which triggers once for the maneuver, per damaged control card if multiple.

Yeah that sounds right. I'm pretty sure damaged controls only triggers once for an entire maneuver, regardless of how many ships or obstacles you would have overlapped.

Nope. No limit on the number of times damaged controls csn trigger.

And the two identical crits do 'stack'. Not that it mattered here.

I beg to differ on this because of the "When" keyword on the card:

• A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specific

event occurs and cannot occur again for that instance of

the event.

Because of that, two "whens" cannot stack effects because the second one would be a reoccurrence of the effect.

And the two identical crits do 'stack'. Not that it mattered here.

I beg to differ on this because of the "When" keyword on the card:

• A “when” effect occurs at the moment that the specificevent occurs and cannot occur again for that instance ofthe event.

Because of that, two "whens" cannot stack effects because the second one would be a reoccurrence of the effect.

Incorrect.

There are two when effects, one from each card.

What if the Flotilla blocked the VSD, so the VSD ends its movement on an obstacle?

Then the flotilla would take 1 damage for the ram.

The victory would take 1 hull damage as the crit card effect for overlapping a ship.

The victory would take 1 face up card for the asteroid.

The victory would take 1 hull damage as the crit card effect for overlapping an obstacle.

Wait. I think this is false. So flotilla blocks victory, that then back tracks and lands on obstacle, while affected by damaged controls, right?

Flotilla takes a face down for being rammed.

Victory takes obstacle damage.

Victory takes a face down for the damaged controls, which triggers once for the maneuver, per damaged control card if multiple.

Yeah that sounds right. I'm pretty sure damaged controls only triggers once for an entire maneuver, regardless of how many ships or obstacles you would have overlapped.

Nope. No limit on the number of times damaged controls csn trigger.