Good job, everyone. You begged and begged and your overlords obliged.

Scum: The new uber-dominate faction that pushes damage through (Zuckuss, Slicer Tools, Feedback Array, and 4-LOM) and doesn't give a **** about your 3-dice primary because the ships that run with these crew have more hull/shields than your whole Imperial list combined. Want to PS-9 arc dodge? Ha. See those 180°/360° arcs? See that firing arc that MOVES?

Whisper. Nerfed, softly. Dies to Zuckuss and stress.

Fel, Inquisitor. Dies to Zuckuss, Slicer Tools and stress.

I'd go on but my plane is about to take off.

Tell me I'm wrong while I'm in the air.

No, Palp Aces is the new Palp Aces. Especially with Defenders.

All of this hyper offensive scum stuff has become necessary in order to actual get damage through.

I gave my opponent my Advanced Proton Torpedo Dengaroo variant. I was stupid enough to park Vessery at range 1 of Dengar, so he fired off a 5 hit APT at me. I rolled blank blank focus evade, and after Zuckuss ended up rolling the same thing.

A SINGLE ******* DAMAGE from a 5 hit attack. That's how ridiculous damage mitigation has gotten. Palp Aces ships are invincible and you need this level of firepower to ever hit anything. You can shrug off 4 hit U-Boat torps even easier.

A bunch of greedy Imperial players who are mad that something can actually hit Soontir for once. And a bunch of no-skill rebel players angry that they can't play Poe Han or Super Dash or something else obnoxious and dominate. I honestly don't know which group I hate more.

So a Defender with a focus token, evade token, Stealth Device and Palp (I'm assuming) was able to absorb a 5-hit attack, but still took damage that knocked out his Stealth Device and still forced him to burn Palp and all defensive tokens?

Not seeing the problem here.

The fundamental issue being that basically anything else would have taken 3 or more hits, and it had to be 5 hits to get anything to land at all. Any less and it would have been laughed off.

People seem to convieniently forget that that the second, third etc. shot at the Imperial ace in the same round will no longer have to go through the Stealth Device and Emperor.

If you go up against a Soontir at range 3/out of arc, equipped bwith Stealth Device and backed by the Emperor you should exspect to miss witht he first shot. Thats why you try to make those shots with multible ships and preferably at range 2 or in arch.

That's assuming you GOT a second, third, etc shot against said ace. You frequently don't...

Good job, everyone. You begged and begged and your overlords obliged.

Scum: The new uber-dominate faction that pushes damage through (Zuckuss, Slicer Tools, Feedback Array, and 4-LOM) and doesn't give a **** about your 3-dice primary because the ships that run with these crew have more hull/shields than your whole Imperial list combined. Want to PS-9 arc dodge? Ha. See those 180°/360° arcs? See that firing arc that MOVES?

Whisper. Nerfed, softly. Dies to Zuckuss and stress.

Fel, Inquisitor. Dies to Zuckuss, Slicer Tools and stress.

I'd go on but my plane is about to take off.

Tell me I'm wrong while I'm in the air.

No, Palp Aces is the new Palp Aces. Especially with Defenders.

All of this hyper offensive scum stuff has become necessary in order to actual get damage through.

I gave my opponent my Advanced Proton Torpedo Dengaroo variant. I was stupid enough to park Vessery at range 1 of Dengar, so he fired off a 5 hit APT at me. I rolled blank blank focus evade, and after Zuckuss ended up rolling the same thing.

A SINGLE ******* DAMAGE from a 5 hit attack. That's how ridiculous damage mitigation has gotten. Palp Aces ships are invincible and you need this level of firepower to ever hit anything. You can shrug off 4 hit U-Boat torps even easier.

A bunch of greedy Imperial players who are mad that something can actually hit Soontir for once. And a bunch of no-skill rebel players angry that they can't play Poe Han or Super Dash or something else obnoxious and dominate. I honestly don't know which group I hate more.

So a Defender with a focus token, evade token, Stealth Device and Palp (I'm assuming) was able to absorb a 5-hit attack, but still took damage that knocked out his Stealth Device and still forced him to burn Palp and all defensive tokens?

Not seeing the problem here.

The fundamental issue being that basically anything else would have taken 3 or more hits, and it had to be 5 hits to get anything to land at all. Any less and it would have been laughed off.

People seem to convieniently forget that that the second, third etc. shot at the Imperial ace in the same round will no longer have to go through the Stealth Device and Emperor.

If you go up against a Soontir at range 3/out of arc, equipped bwith Stealth Device and backed by the Emperor you should exspect to miss witht he first shot. Thats why you try to make those shots with multible ships and preferably at range 2 or in arch.

That's assuming you GOT a second, third, etc shot against said ace. You frequently don't...

The 'just get more shots' people also assume Soontir will roll abysmally first time and use up all his tokens. In reality it's much more likely he will get some decent rolls on the 4 greens he has and stretch his tokens over multiple attacks.

That too. Or even if he rolls bad on the first attack and spends his defenses, he could still roll 4 evades on the second

Somebody can actually push damage through the wall of green dice, autothrusters, all sorts of tokens and allmighty Palp?

A YV-666 with a Heavy Laser Cannon (Moralo Eval, maybe)? Certainly nothing with only a 3-die attack. A TIE Interceptor can block it all on any defense roll except Focus-Focus-Focus-Focus-Focus (which happens less than 0.1% of the time).

fear!!!

him dat bringer o' doom... MF'ers!!!

To be clear, this is not an "anti-insert faction here thread". This is a "Why can't we complain about rebels being OP again?" thread - Jk - I just hate seeing four-six of the same ship at the final table at large events.

I don't understand the sentiment to remove defense dice. Is there a better way to represent defending against attacks that I don't know about?

armada

or just being good at the game instead of at dice

You definitely never saw what happens when Imperial gets a full shot, and has X17 turbolasers and Nk-7 Ions

>_>

Hey there, Let me take that Brace away.

and now eat these magneficent 8 dice with Vader re-roll and DAKKA order.

oh, sad, you can't redirect more than 1 damage to neighboring shield, sounds like you've got yourself no shield here and a ton of cards!

But yeah, Armada is a great step forward, those expend-discard-exhaust mechanics and different dice are terrific, as is the Activation order, and initiative flip.

Sadly we have none here :c

Good job, everyone. You begged and begged and your overlords obliged.

Scum: The new uber-dominate faction that pushes damage through (Zuckuss, Slicer Tools, Feedback Array, and 4-LOM) and doesn't give a **** about your 3-dice primary because the ships that run with these crew have more hull/shields than your whole Imperial list combined. Want to PS-9 arc dodge? Ha. See those 180°/360° arcs? See that firing arc that MOVES?

Whisper. Nerfed, softly. Dies to Zuckuss and stress.

Fel, Inquisitor. Dies to Zuckuss, Slicer Tools and stress.

I'd go on but my plane is about to take off.

Tell me I'm wrong while I'm in the air.

No, Palp Aces is the new Palp Aces. Especially with Defenders.

All of this hyper offensive scum stuff has become necessary in order to actual get damage through.

I gave my opponent my Advanced Proton Torpedo Dengaroo variant. I was stupid enough to park Vessery at range 1 of Dengar, so he fired off a 5 hit APT at me. I rolled blank blank focus evade, and after Zuckuss ended up rolling the same thing.

A SINGLE ******* DAMAGE from a 5 hit attack. That's how ridiculous damage mitigation has gotten. Palp Aces ships are invincible and you need this level of firepower to ever hit anything. You can shrug off 4 hit U-Boat torps even easier.

A bunch of greedy Imperial players who are mad that something can actually hit Soontir for once. And a bunch of no-skill rebel players angry that they can't play Poe Han or Super Dash or something else obnoxious and dominate. I honestly don't know which group I hate more.

Man, when rebels could bring their ace counters things sure were different. Stress tokens would stack high and regen ships would not care about 2 ace ships shooting at them cause they would disregard the damage in a couple turns anyway.. I mean top of worlds when palpatine hit the scene was 2 regen rebel lists right? I don't think the ridiculously broken palpatine aces has taken a worlds title yet.

I hope rebels can push through as a stronger faction than twin laser turrets, shield regeneration, fat primary weapon turrets, and low agillity small ships that die to ordinance in the very near future. I hope scum stays as powerful as they are. I hope the empire stays powerful as well. The game is extremely fun when both sides are actually having to plan around each others moves for the potential to lose in game assets.

Yeah, you say Ace counters.

What you really mean is PS 10 regen Poe, which is just as/almost as bad as Palp Aces. Wave 7 meta, where half of the players at an event would be Rebel players and they'd all be flying identical regen Poes.

TLT Tactician K-Wings, which just HAD TO BE nerfed because those are what ruins the game.

And the Stresshog. I'd say that you have a fair point, but no one actually used it that often, it does little to Juke x7 Vessery, and it's not that hard to deal with when you're using Palp Aces. You know what ships are easiest to ignore the effects of multiple stress with? Ships with Autothrusters and evade tokens and green hard turns and Palpatine.

Remember: If all Soontir has to defend himself with is 4 agility and Palpatine, your 3/3 hit attack has a 48% chance of doing nothing. That's IF you get 3/3 hits.

great day?

we've been able to do this for a while now

That card literally won me a Regionals title.

great day?

we've been able to do this for a while now

That card literally won me a Regionals title.

And it got me dice at a Regional.

It's irritating having to cram your list full of hard counters that are only useful against Acewings.

I won't play a squad with a Ghost in it unless it has ABT.

I won't play Brobots unless they have Feedback Array.

I won't use bombs unless I know for certain I will move last because otherwise a boostwing will dodge them.

I won't play most things in this game right now because they have no chance against Palp Aces. It's just stupid. I'm sick and tired of having to beat someone with my upgrade cards instead of beating them by flying better.

Hard counters are not good if you want a nuanced game. Rock Paper Scissors is the epitome of a balanced game. It's not a very good one. You could hard counter the Phantom before it was nerfed too.

Good job, everyone. You begged and begged and your overlords obliged.

Scum: The new uber-dominate faction that pushes damage through (Zuckuss, Slicer Tools, Feedback Array, and 4-LOM) and doesn't give a **** about your 3-dice primary because the ships that run with these crew have more hull/shields than your whole Imperial list combined. Want to PS-9 arc dodge? Ha. See those 180°/360° arcs? See that firing arc that MOVES?

Whisper. Nerfed, softly. Dies to Zuckuss and stress.

Fel, Inquisitor. Dies to Zuckuss, Slicer Tools and stress.

I'd go on but my plane is about to take off.

Tell me I'm wrong while I'm in the air.

Those cards are in because of Fel, Whisper etc.

We are talking about what?

Anyway, try to fly other lists? Swarms maybe? Defenders, Maybe? Is changing lists so bad? I don't think so.

I've only lost with a crack mini swarm and ryad once. Was to a dash. Palp aces has been crushed every time, scouts usually thin the herd then die horribly, and ghosts just don't like that many attacks. So, if you think palpaces or jm5ks are only beatable with hard counters, you suck at playing.

That is all.

PS before you say crackshot counters aces, I'll gladly switch to 5 obsidians, they do just as good. Same win ratio.

I've only lost with a crack mini swarm and ryad once. Was to a dash. Palp aces has been crushed every time, scouts usually thin the herd then die horribly, and ghosts just don't like that many attacks. So, if you think palpaces or jm5ks are only beatable with hard counters, you suck at playing.

That is all.

PS before you say crackshot counters aces, I'll gladly switch to 5 obsidians, they do just as good. Same win ratio.

What is your exact squad?

I think I could take it with my Palp Aces squad. Inquisitor and Juke x7 Stealth Vessery with an FCS Palp Shuttle. You kind of don't have enough Crackshots to get through all of my list, and if you go with 5 Obsidians then that's even better for me because you have 5 useless ships instead of 4 useful ones.

Do you have tabletop simulator? I'd be glad to play a few matches with you.

Is the TTS module actually usable now? I tried it before, but the collision system only worked intermittently, and when I put dial cards into the hidden area, everything disappeared permanently.

But what were they thinking when they made Zuckuss and 4-LOM one point?

Actually neither Zuckuss nor 4-LOM is broken. They are a little more effective to increase your expected damaged than a focus token. Zuckuss is not really effective against low AGI ships, 4-LOM is circumstantial and both have drawbacks.

People think Zuckuss is OP because of Dengaroo, but they ignore the fact that the build's strength comes from the large number of synergies allowed by the versatility of the JM5Ks (Manaroo's ability, JM5k dial + PTL+ unhinged astromech + Dengar's double tap + PWT + OCR4/R5P8 + Zuckuss + white S-loop etc). Just try to replace Dengar with another ship (Boba for example) and you will get a mediocre build.

(...)

Zuckuss comes with the cost of piling stress. That normally is quite limiting your options and builds, outside from 1-2 certain builds.

Btw, predominantly rebel faction inclined crying about having a ridiculous number of stress tokens, there is a certain rebel pilot, who does the same with not many consequences for him....

Is the TTS module actually usable now? I tried it before, but the collision system only worked intermittently, and when I put dial cards into the hidden area, everything disappeared permanently.

1.) Auto bumping works most of the time.

2.) Automove dials are bugged out for me, so I've started stacking my dial cards into decks and just searching for the maneuver that I need and moving with commands. No need for the hidden zone unless I forget what I put down for a ship and need to check mid-turn.

Hidden zone seems to be working fine though. You need to make sure that you're putting them into your own hidden zone lol, if you put something into a hidden zone that's not yours, it'll disappear haha.

But what were they thinking when they made Zuckuss and 4-LOM one point?

Actually neither Zuckuss nor 4-LOM is broken. They are a little more effective to increase your expected damaged than a focus token. Zuckuss is not really effective against low AGI ships, 4-LOM is circumstantial and both have drawbacks.

People think Zuckuss is OP because of Dengaroo, but they ignore the fact that the build's strength comes from the large number of synergies allowed by the versatility of the JM5Ks (Manaroo's ability, JM5k dial + PTL+ unhinged astromech + Dengar's double tap + PWT + OCR4/R5P8 + Zuckuss + white S-loop etc). Just try to replace Dengar with another ship (Boba for example) and you will get a mediocre build.

(...)

Zuckuss comes with the cost of piling stress. That normally is quite limiting your options and builds, outside from 1-2 certain builds.

Btw, predominantly rebel faction inclined crying about having a ridiculous number of stress tokens, there is a certain rebel pilot, who does the same with not many consequences for him....

As much as I like the Zuckuss card and Dengaroo, this is a bit ridiculous. Tycho's pilot ability is on a useless A-Wing.

But what were they thinking when they made Zuckuss and 4-LOM one point?

Actually neither Zuckuss nor 4-LOM is broken. They are a little more effective to increase your expected damaged than a focus token. Zuckuss is not really effective against low AGI ships, 4-LOM is circumstantial and both have drawbacks.

People think Zuckuss is OP because of Dengaroo, but they ignore the fact that the build's strength comes from the large number of synergies allowed by the versatility of the JM5Ks (Manaroo's ability, JM5k dial + PTL+ unhinged astromech + Dengar's double tap + PWT + OCR4/R5P8 + Zuckuss + white S-loop etc). Just try to replace Dengar with another ship (Boba for example) and you will get a mediocre build.

(...)

Zuckuss comes with the cost of piling stress. That normally is quite limiting your options and builds, outside from 1-2 certain builds.

Btw, predominantly rebel faction inclined crying about having a ridiculous number of stress tokens, there is a certain rebel pilot, who does the same with not many consequences for him....

As much as I like the Zuckuss card and Dengaroo, this is a bit ridiculous. Tycho's pilot ability is on a useless A-Wing.

Yeah why can't it be on a useless x-wing he flew those too.

Is the TTS module actually usable now? I tried it before, but the collision system only worked intermittently, and when I put dial cards into the hidden area, everything disappeared permanently.

1.) Auto bumping works most of the time.

2.) Automove dials are bugged out for me, so I've started stacking my dial cards into decks and just searching for the maneuver that I need and moving with commands. No need for the hidden zone unless I forget what I put down for a ship and need to check mid-turn.

Hidden zone seems to be working fine though. You need to make sure that you're putting them into your own hidden zone lol, if you put something into a hidden zone that's not yours, it'll disappear haha.

Maybe I should give it another try. I haven't had the patience to stick with it for very long to figure out how to use it properly, truth be told.

So now the state of the game is that rolling dice actually matters and people are complaining? wow.

if you go with 5 Obsidians then that's even better for me because you have 5 useless ships instead of 4 useful ones.

Edit: crackshot is much like Palp. They are crutches. They don't make a player great, they make an average player have a chance against a superior opponent.

Jesus Christ you guys, what the hell is this?

I didn't realise that the only option to win was to run palp-aces, dengaroo, or triple Jumps! Why wasn't I told?

What about:

Crack swarm (and multiple variants)

2 Lothal + ABT Y wing

Dash + Lothal (or chopper, there's that variant)

Brobots

Wes/Biggs/Corran

Chihuahua swarm (5 A wings)

All of these work well against the meta if you practice.

Currently, there is no list which auto-wins tournaments just by flying it - there are pitfalls for every single meta list. Aces joust at r1-2 in arc; or get bumped - dead. Dengaroo can lose manaroo very easily - dead. Triple-Jumps get blocked or lose their actions any other way, or get arc dodged - dead.

Palpatine is strong - but only if backed up by a stack of tokens. Somehow I don't think a crack swarm with Palp would be nearly so good.

Zuckuss is utter shite - unless you have another way of getting actions, so one (maybe 2) builds can use him effectively. (It's worse than a focus for attacking, and if you'll be stressed after using him, you won't be focusing any time soon).

Instead of large base PWTs having useless generics, we get a list which actually uses them to great effect - too good! Must nerf! The issue is that they drive low-tier rebel lists out, and the simple way of fixing that would be to give rebels a way of avoiding torpedoes - not nerfing Jumpmasters.

Good job, everyone. You begged and begged and your overlords obliged.

Scum: The new uber-dominate faction that pushes damage through (Zuckuss, Slicer Tools, Feedback Array, and 4-LOM) and doesn't give a **** about your 3-dice primary because the ships that run with these crew have more hull/shields than your whole Imperial list combined. Want to PS-9 arc dodge? Ha. See those 180°/360° arcs? See that firing arc that MOVES?

Whisper. Nerfed, softly. Dies to Zuckuss and stress.

Fel, Inquisitor. Dies to Zuckuss, Slicer Tools and stress.

I'd go on but my plane is about to take off.

Tell me I'm wrong while I'm in the air.

No, Palp Aces is the new Palp Aces. Especially with Defenders.

All of this hyper offensive scum stuff has become necessary in order to actual get damage through.

I gave my opponent my Advanced Proton Torpedo Dengaroo variant. I was stupid enough to park Vessery at range 1 of Dengar, so he fired off a 5 hit APT at me. I rolled blank blank focus evade, and after Zuckuss ended up rolling the same thing.

A SINGLE ******* DAMAGE from a 5 hit attack. That's how ridiculous damage mitigation has gotten. Palp Aces ships are invincible and you need this level of firepower to ever hit anything. You can shrug off 4 hit U-Boat torps even easier.

A bunch of greedy Imperial players who are mad that something can actually hit Soontir for once. And a bunch of no-skill rebel players angry that they can't play Poe Han or Super Dash or something else obnoxious and dominate. I honestly don't know which group I hate more.

Man, when rebels could bring their ace counters things sure were different. Stress tokens would stack high and regen ships would not care about 2 ace ships shooting at them cause they would disregard the damage in a couple turns anyway.. I mean top of worlds when palpatine hit the scene was 2 regen rebel lists right? I don't think the ridiculously broken palpatine aces has taken a worlds title yet.

I hope rebels can push through as a stronger faction than twin laser turrets, shield regeneration, fat primary weapon turrets, and low agillity small ships that die to ordinance in the very near future. I hope scum stays as powerful as they are. I hope the empire stays powerful as well. The game is extremely fun when both sides are actually having to plan around each others moves for the potential to lose in game assets.

Yeah, you say Ace counters.

What you really mean is PS 10 regen Poe, which is just as/almost as bad as Palp Aces. Wave 7 meta, where half of the players at an event would be Rebel players and they'd all be flying identical regen Poes.

TLT Tactician K-Wings, which just HAD TO BE nerfed because those are what ruins the game.

And the Stresshog. I'd say that you have a fair point, but no one actually used it that often, it does little to Juke x7 Vessery, and it's not that hard to deal with when you're using Palp Aces. You know what ships are easiest to ignore the effects of multiple stress with? Ships with Autothrusters and evade tokens and green hard turns and Palpatine.

Remember: If all Soontir has to defend himself with is 4 agility and Palpatine, your 3/3 hit attack has a 48% chance of doing nothing. That's IF you get 3/3 hits.

I do love reading your posts man, always great to see your well constructed view. Always well thought out and so far inoffensive. I do agree that a palp backed soontir is an absolute chore to deal with, I just still can't agree that it alone is hurting the meta. I believe fully that the reason an entire third of the game (rebels) don't see the table as often is the combination of SUPER arc dodger palp aces and SUPER accurate ordinance with absurdly effective for cost crew in scum. If FFG doesn't want to nerf either of those factions pieces down then they need to bring the namesakes faction toys to compete. I know that there has been power creep in the game, that's every game however so I don't get upset to see it. I do however believe that if the power level should rise it should rise evenly and currently one of only 3 factions is left out, and that's sad.

I think Zuckuss is by far the single most OP thing Scum has right now. If it was "once per round," it would have been okay. If it had a cap to the number of stress tokens you could pile on, it would have been okay. But as it stands, its just way too powerful.

Personally, I think ALL upgrade cards (not pilot abilities) should be usable only "once per round". Almost all of the "best" upgrade cards are spammable in a single round. Autothrusters, Predator+Gunner, Zuckuss, Fire Control System + Gunner effect, (soon could add Latts crew to this list) to name a few.

...snip...

That's not to say any of those lists are unbeatable, but they have narrowed the field of viable lists considerably - in my opinion more than any other Wave since 4/5 and the oft-maligned point fortressing of Han and co. Wave 9 will go some way towards addressing the latter here: Latts crew and BMST are very effective against piles of stress tokens, giving those tokens a drawback again for the Dengar/Manaroo list. I'm not entirely sure anything in Wave 9 directly deals with the torpedo boat threat, though, which may not alleviate their warping effect on other lists. New ways to deal stress will hurt them (Asajj, cargo drops, Braylen as a stressbot carrier), I'm just not certain how much.

...snip...

So the way to beat Scum is to play Scum.

Got it. Balance!

More seriously, though, I think they ended up painting them into a corner with some of the improvements, and are going to have a hard time getting out of it. Althouh it would be funny to see FFG continue their "**** it" pattern and just give S&V a Huge sized Jumpmaster for Epic.

If scum lists start to counter dengaroocand uboats, that means lessnof those incthe meta, so ofher lists might be able to atart coming back. Just cause a counter is the same faction doesnt mean thats ALL you can play.