-Due to the length of the episode, spoilers, discussions that flowed into each other there will not be a "Sqaudron Building discussion" as outlined in the introduction. We will reserve the topic of "Squadron Play" for a standalone episode dedicated entirely to it-

http://pawarmada.podbean.com/e/pawcast-episode-2-post-tourney-corellian-conflict-wave-5-squadrons-for-squadron-players/

(reference for times/also in link)

0:00 Intro

3:16 Post Wave 4 Tourney/Practice Games

24:50 Corellian Conflict

48:37 Wave 5

50:00 Pelta & Upgrades

1:09:39 Arquitens & Upgrades

1:25:08 Rebel Squadrons

148:25:00 Imperial Squadrons - 230:00:00 End

On the second episode of PAWCast we dissect our first Wave 4 Tournment and practice games. Then it's off to spoiler season for Corellian Conflict and Wave 5.

• Did you know Ciena Ree can use her ability against ships as well as counter? (making her nigh unkillable against a single ship at least)
• How can an ISD can point backwards at speed 3? Can an Interdictor make a 135 degree turn with Engine Techs?
• How about pairing Relay (as speculated) with Yavaris?
• Whats the pick of the new Squadrons for a Squadron player?

For all these questions and more join us and sit through my poor on-the-fly-math and my horrible Sato "Friendly Ship" brain fart which we realised in post (although all my strikes against him still stand!). A long episode filled with flowing discussion.

This episode was awesome to participate in and is an exhustive study of all coming spoilers. (Seriously, anybody who looses a Pelta to one Tie Advanced probably isn't that great! )

Sweet! Can't wait to listen!

Glad i could be on the podcast, look forward to chiming in on future episodes, great work on it Trizzo!

Ciena Ree and Jamming Fields dont stack. You can only be obstructed once.

Ciena Ree and Jamming Fields dont stack. You can only be obstructed once.

Correct. I don't remeber saying it or who did but they would be wrong!

I would love to see the 2 ISD and Tagg list

Hope they didnt sound too absolute this time Lyraesus!

Hope they didnt sound too absolute this time Lyraesus!

Clearly they're all secretly Sith.

Clearly they're all secretly Sith.

"cuz all the other commanders for rebels are really narrow, and you can't really build a fleet that you want around them" . . . . Statements like this. . . It is just so vexing to hear. I mean there are Games Guns styles of lists, my own DtO was built around Dodonna, HERO's MC80 Battleship list was built around Ackbar. . . All these commanders have to get lists built around them. . .

To be fair, they're just statements of their own opinion Lyr, they shouldn't really vex you so much.

I'm apparently meant to be on the next ep and I plan on talking only in absolutes - but you don't ever have to agree with someone's opinion. Just because they say 'all the other commanders for rebels are really narrow' doesn't mean they are; it just means in their opinion they are. Equally though someone talking in absolutes doesn't make their statement invalid, in fact the contextual presumption is that they're more guidelines than actual absolutes. A lot of people could find Dodonna or Ackbar hard to build a fleet they want around, for example, and if they did exceptions to that wouldn't necessarily render the general statement invalid.

"cuz all the other commanders for rebels are really narrow, and you can't really build a fleet that you want around them" . . . . Statements like this. . . It is just so vexing to hear. I mean there are Games Guns styles of lists, my own DtO was built around Dodonna, HERO's MC80 Battleship list was built around Ackbar. . . All these commanders have to get lists built around them. . .

Which in my opinion means they are narrow in comparison to all the Imperial counterparts who are blanket commanders, you can build any imperial fleet you like and then toss in your personal flavor of admiral (konstantine being the first imp admiral that has the same narrow restrictions of the rebel commanders), but when you want to build a rebel fleet you are restricted in effectiveness through command values, arcs and defense tokens.

see i really like mon mothma's effect but i love the MC80's as carriers since I love squadron play so I lose out in value, if motti was restricted to just medium and larges you would see him played alot less cause taking a raider or a gladiator would feel sub optimal. this is why the most used rebel commander is Reeikan, can take anything you want, next seen admiral is akbar for the same reason since the nebulons aren't very popular.

just feels like you lose options when you build a rebel fleet, never have that issue with the imperial lists, even sato has some restrictions by requiring squadrons which is not as harsh since they are becoming more necessary by wave 5 anyways

"cuz all the other commanders for rebels are really narrow, and you can't really build a fleet that you want around them" . . . . Statements like this. . . It is just so vexing to hear. I mean there are Games Guns styles of lists, my own DtO was built around Dodonna, HERO's MC80 Battleship list was built around Ackbar. . . All these commanders have to get lists built around them. . .

Hey Lyraesus, thanks for the feedback!

In the interest of continuous improvement can you point out the other times that the PAW crew may have been absolute please? This way we can try to hold back on our aussie sarcasm and larrikin ways and try to build towards communicating better to an international audience.

hope to hear from you soon good sir.

I don't mind the absolutes personally. If everyone spoke in wishy washy conversation and no one disagreed it would be a pretty boring show imho. I welcome the perspective, even if I completely disagree with your assessment of Toryn and Sato. Different strokes and all that.

Yeah I think its better to take a stand on an issue if you are doing a show, so long as you remain open to debate. I normally listen at work so I haven't gotten past the tournament section of the cast yet though, so I can't speak as to the opinions proferred.

Yeah I think its better to take a stand on an issue if you are doing a show, so long as you remain open to debate. I normally listen at work so I haven't gotten past the tournament section of the cast yet though, so I can't speak as to the opinions proferred.

Taking a stand on something is fine and can be done with simple add ons such as "I have found. . . ", "I believe," "for me,". . . etc, etc

Those turn your absolute statement into something debatable and not into an argument when someone disagrees.

I don't mind the absolutes personally. If everyone spoke in wishy washy conversation and no one disagreed it would be a pretty boring show imho. I welcome the perspective, even if I completely disagree with your assessment of Toryn and Sato. Different strokes and all that.

That's an issue as well. They have statements that are rarely discussed though it is only the second episode there are less discussions overall than there are plain statements.

It is a round table but less of a back and forth and more of a single person stating their opinion and them moving on to the next opinion on the same thing. I would REALLY REALLY love some more back and forth!

Lyraeus, turning absolutes into believes etc is a statement of weakness in some cultures.

Yeah I think its better to take a stand on an issue if you are doing a show, so long as you remain open to debate. I normally listen at work so I haven't gotten past the tournament section of the cast yet though, so I can't speak as to the opinions proferred.

Taking a stand on something is fine and can be done with simple add ons such as "I have found. . . ", "I believe," "for me,". . . etc, etc

Those turn your absolute statement into something debatable and not into an argument when someone disagrees.

I don't mind the absolutes personally. If everyone spoke in wishy washy conversation and no one disagreed it would be a pretty boring show imho. I welcome the perspective, even if I completely disagree with your assessment of Toryn and Sato. Different strokes and all that.

That's an issue as well. They have statements that are rarely discussed though it is only the second episode there are less discussions overall than there are plain statements.

It is a round table but less of a back and forth and more of a single person stating their opinion and them moving on to the next opinion on the same thing. I would REALLY REALLY love some more back and forth!

Hey Lyraeus, I was on the podcast too, I was the second person to be introduced. I've read some of your ideas about opinions and absolutes and I agree with some of what you have to say. I can even relate, when anyone at IFF trash talks a ship or card I like I know I have a little ho hum moment . But just because someone says something is bad, like we said Toryn farr was a bit dissapointing doesn't mean it is bad.

If anything it's a chance for you to run that ship or card in your games and write to us in these podcast posts telling how you used it well and to be frank we'd like to read those insights too. There's no reason you can't give back to the discussion by asserting your opinions on here.

Also, there's a lot of ground we wanted to cover in initial episodes. As time passes I think it's very likely the show will be less opinions on new cards and more discussion about how someones list was flying and what cards did really well for them.

Yeah I think its better to take a stand on an issue if you are doing a show, so long as you remain open to debate. I normally listen at work so I haven't gotten past the tournament section of the cast yet though, so I can't speak as to the opinions proferred.

Taking a stand on something is fine and can be done with simple add ons such as "I have found. . . ", "I believe," "for me,". . . etc, etc

Those turn your absolute statement into something debatable and not into an argument when someone disagrees.

I don't mind the absolutes personally. If everyone spoke in wishy washy conversation and no one disagreed it would be a pretty boring show imho. I welcome the perspective, even if I completely disagree with your assessment of Toryn and Sato. Different strokes and all that.

That's an issue as well. They have statements that are rarely discussed though it is only the second episode there are less discussions overall than there are plain statements.

It is a round table but less of a back and forth and more of a single person stating their opinion and them moving on to the next opinion on the same thing. I would REALLY REALLY love some more back and forth!

Hey Lyraeus, I was on the podcast too, I was the second person to be introduced. I've read some of your ideas about opinions and absolutes and I agree with some of what you have to say. I can even relate, when anyone at IFF trash talks a ship or card I like I know I have a little ho hum moment . But just because someone says something is bad, like we said Toryn farr was a bit dissapointing doesn't mean it is bad.

If anything it's a chance for you to run that ship or card in your games and write to us in these podcast posts telling how you used it well and to be frank we'd like to read those insights too. There's no reason you can't give back to the discussion by asserting your opinions on here.

Also, there's a lot of ground we wanted to cover in initial episodes. As time passes I think it's very likely the show will be less opinions on new cards and more discussion about how someones list was flying and what cards did really well for them.

See the comment on Toryn Farr was fine. You guys said you felt disappointed. Its not like you guys said that she was pointless or useless. Toryn is pointed appropriately for what she brings. She is really no great on any ship other than a Transport Right now but may see use on the Pelta. I have found Toryn has increase my B-Wings damage output, Nebulon B's anti squadron and even assisted the MC80's out. She is not an always use like Raymus though. That is the thing that I think many people miss when looking and testing these cards out.

If you guys had segments on such things like reading mail and announcing events it would be interesting

I've been taking a backseat seeing what people have to say and it's very much appreciated.

Keep in mind this is only the second episode! It's new for me in terms of running a podcast, developing a format, framing the discussion and facilitating it. I'm sure everybody who listened to the first and second episode would have noticed leaps and bounds in terms of quality from the discussion, the flow, more back and forth, improved audio and overall consistency.

It's also new for participants. Before getting stuck into each other (which we do and many pairs are famous for their arguments) people need to be comfortable in speaking in this setting. I had to boost someones second half audio in post becuase they later told them they felt as if they were too loud and started speaking softer, this would hardly of made them feel relaxed! (my mistake was not telling people what I will do in in the editing).

As for viewpoints what is "correct" or "true" to one person might be totally alien to another due to entirely different experiences. They aren't wrong, they just have different perspectives given their context. I believe it is better to have a strong opinion, based on experience or playtesting, than be wishy washy. I prefer the polemical as it makes us question orthodoxy, so that we do not take refuge in the false security of consensus. So long as this approach is tempered with a lack of arrogance and humility, to accepet other views or concede you could be wrong when presented with a good counter argument. Such views create a focal point arouind which disscussion revolves. Hopefully this is where insight can be had, for example...

A "I think Sato is overhyped"

B "Really? His ability is pretty good"

A "Yes but you're not talking about his conditions, conditions that make him expensive and situational"

B "So you build around it to mitiage the chance of that happening, conditional =/= bad"

A "No it doesnt, but it makes him more narrow than people suggest"

B "Well his usage is not as wide as first thought but it makes the strong archtype of squadrons stronger and pushes squadron play"

A "Being a rational person I wouldn't dissagree that Sato is pretty good for squadron play and his ability is very good"

This exact conversion pretty much played out amongst us on the weekend. You can probally guess who was spoiling for a fight on Sato

Reading mail and annoucing events? Well that sounds fantastic acutally. Now the first few episodes are done and most of the introductions and spoilers (for now) done we will be doing much more focused, issue driven episodes. I'll send you a PM. Mail would be great, more community involvement = broader topics for discussion. As well as thoughts or questions on a prior episode.

Sounds good. You could also see about special episodes with guests. Maybe you can get IceQube on or something. It would be interesting.

if you could point out those other absolute times please that would be great Lyraesus!

if you could point out those other absolute times please that would be great Lyraesus!

See I dont know if that is serious or just a way to tease me. I will go back and listen and see what I hear.

My feedback;

I love that you leave the sort of "Table of Contents" on thr page, as I had to listen over a couple sittings and it made it easy to get back where I was. I also enjoyed the structured format, and they way you kept it on track.

I think as you guys grow more comfortable with this, and more experienced at it, the more organic roundtable discussion will come along. Honestly, there was growth in that direction even from the beginning of the episode to the end of it.

I disagree with certain speculations and observations but I didn't hear much where I'm sitting here shaking my head thinking "WTF is wrong with you?" And that is a good place to be, I think. Keeps the cast interesting and the overall discussion beyond the cast healthy and growing.

Specifically;

- I don't buy the common speculation that the Arquietens is going to have some kind of awful manuever chart. Jerjerrod is there to fix the Victory. The Arquietens just happens to be the ship he comes with. It's unlikely to be as manueverable as a CR90, but I don't think something like a neb chart is impossible. It could be -null-one-one at speed three, and that would be the least manueverable that I think we would see.

-Something was said about the Z95's lack of rebel fighter synergy, that they only really had Jan. Forgot Wedge/Dutch, and the brand new Hera. Still, thats true for the most part but I feel like its a trap to talk about rebel fighter synergy independent of ship and upgrade complement, because they get a lot from things like Yavaris, Independence, Toryn Farr and Adar Tallon. At best, its academic and at worst its limiting.

-Someone said there weren't many new rebel bombers coming. 3 of 8 of these squadron cards have the word bomber on it, and hera has two antiship die. So its probably safe to assume at least half of these guys give solid anti-ship utility. I feel like that wws just an incorrect statement.

Overal though, it was an enjoyable listen with solid insight and informed speculation as to the new waves. You guys have a fan in me. Very much looking forward to the next podcast/batrep.