Daredevil is a red maneuver kannan wouldn't remove stress on it.

Wait did it get faqd?

Daredevil is a red maneuver kannan wouldn't remove stress on it.

Wait did it get faqd?

Yes. Daredevil is a white maneuver + stress token, similar to Inertial Dampeners.

So that you could have U-turn Tycho.

are you sure Kanan can clear the stress generated by the maneuver itself? Can the sequence of events be 'nested' correctly?

(Checks card text)

Hmm, I think it might work. Until someone adds some stress to your U-wingy. And I hope you don't mind not running the stealth device.

are you sure Kanan can clear the stress generated by the maneuver itself? Can the sequence of events be 'nested' correctly?

(Checks card text)

Hmm, I think it might work. Until someone adds some stress to your U-wingy. And I hope you don't mind not running the stealth device.

I don't know, I would say that Kanan triggers immediately after you execute the maneuver, so you wouldn't have the token yet. The text specifically says "after [the ship] executes a white maneuver," not "after a game effect which triggers a white maneuver is completed." Because once you receive the stress token, you've passed another step, so it's no longer immediately after you executed the maneuver.

Think about Jake Farrel's PTL sequence. Let's say Jake target locks for an action, then triggers PTL to focus. Before PTL's stress effect resolves, Jake can trigger his pilot ability (after receiving a focus token you can boost/barrel roll). Jake's ability nests itself within PTL. It triggers after performing PTL's free action, and then, once the effect THAT action triggers resolves, only then does Jake receive the stress token. Similarly, the pilot with Daredevil would use the ability and perform a white maneuver. Then, BEFORE he is dealt the stress token, Kanan's window opens. If the Daredevil ship already had a stress token BEFORE moving, Kanan could remove that. You'd still take the stress from Daredevil, though.

It's just like the PTL/EI example, you choose which event to resolve when multiple events share the same trigger. Daredevil is an action that causes the ship to execute a white manuever. Kanan clears stress after a white manuever. After the Daredevil maneuver you are also instructed to take a stress. Both events share the same trigger. You can take the stress, then have Kanan clear it.

Unless it's FAQd that it doesn't work, then whatever...

That specific interaction has not been FAQ'd, but it does clarify that Kanan triggers after the Clean-up substep of executing the maneuver (basically to clarify that it can remove a debris cloud token's stress, since you receive that during the "Check Pilot Stress" substep, so it happens before Kanan). That is the last step, but I would argue that since it clarifies the specific step, Kanan basically triggers as part of the execution of the maneuver. Daredevil's stress occurs after the maneuver and has not been clarified otherwise.

I think that's the problem: Daredevil has not been clarified to the extent that Kanan has. I still don't think you can choose the order of the nesting, because Daredevil inherently happens first. Within Daredevil's window, Kanan's opens up. That window closes when you deal the stress token, as Kanan's opportunity has passed. Yes, the two technically have the same trigger, but I would argue that that doesn't mean they happen at the same time. It's not that Jake chooses the order everything resolves, that's just how it happens. It all happens in a very specific order. PTL's stress token is triggered only after the free action it grants has totally resolved. For Jake, that means another action.

I think your argument is valid, but I don't agree with it, because of how I interpret nested effects. FFG would need to step in to fully resolve it, because I think we're at a stalemate.

This would follow the same rules as Kanan and Debris Clouds. Debris Clouds don't give stress as a part of the maneuver, it comes as a result of the maneuver, which is exactly what Daredevil reads like.

The only small issue is that Daredevil's errata doesn't clarify if it happens "after the Check Pilot Stress step," but that isn't an actual problem -- the only other time that stress could show up is BEFORE that step.

So, yeah. It's the same as Kanan & Debris.

Um, guys? Daredevil is an action. If you had a stress before, you couldn't daredevil.

Um, guys? Daredevil is an action. If you had a stress before, you couldn't daredevil.

That;s where the Advanced Sensors come in.

Um, guys? Daredevil is an action. If you had a stress before, you couldn't daredevil.

Chopper says what?

Um, guys? Daredevil is an action. If you had a stress before, you couldn't daredevil.

Chopper says what?

Tycho chimes in as well.

never mind, I was confused.

The best trick is that if you throw it, it comes back.

Here's how I see the timing with Daredevil and Kanan working:

1. Action: Daredevil
2. Execute a white (1 hard) maneuver.
   • ​Start of execute maneuver sequence
     1. Move Ship
     2. Check Pilot Stress
     3. Clean Up
        • Kanan triggers here - no stress token to remove
   • End of execute maneuver sequence
3. Then, receive 1 stress token.
4. Then, if you do not have the action icon, roll 2 attack dice. Suffer any damage and any critical damage rolled.

I don't think you can say that "Then, receive 1 stress token" and Kanan have the same trigger.

• The Daredevil stress happens after the entire maneuver execution has finished.
• Kanan happens during the maneuver execution, after the clean up sub-step.

The comparisons to PTL/EI nesting are incorrect. Even if you're Tycho, you cannot do:

1. action
2. PTL
   1. action
   2. stress
   3. EI
      1. action
      2. stress

You have to trigger EI after PTL's action, you cannot wait until after the stress.

To try and illustrate my point, consider the following alternative wording of PTL:

• Original: Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar. Then receive 1 stress token.
• Alternate: Once per round, after you perform an action, you may perform 1 free action shown in your action bar. After you perform this action, receive 1 stress token.

In the original card, the stress is given as the next step in the resolution of PTL :

• Perform action
  • Trigger PTL:
  • Perform 1 free action shown in your action bar.
    • (EI could go here)
  • Then receive 1 stress token.

In the alternate wording, the stress is given as a triggered event.

• Perform action
  • Trigger PTL:
  • Perform 1 free action shown in your action bar.
    • ​(EI could be used here)
    • Trigger PTL's "After you perform this action, receive 1 stress token."
    • (Or here)

Edit: Sorry, that turned in to a wall of text! XD

^I suppose, since the DD errata doesn't tell you to take the stress after the Check Pilot Stress step, that the above nesting makes sense.

The Debris Cloud rules for adding stress does tell you to put it on right after the Check Pilot Stress step... I assumed it meant that the stress went on earlier in the process, not later (as there isn't a later... in the maneuver portion of the move).

It's gonna be awkward when they have to FAQ their errata.

Why does Kannan trigger on clean up? His card says after executing a white maneuver. Clean up during the execution of the maneuver. Kannan happens after the end of executing a manuever, same time as Daredevil's stress. Unless there was a FAQ that stated Kannan happens during the actual execution sequence (which goes against the text of his card) then Kannan should be able to clear the stress from DD.

"After executing a manoeuvre" is a common trigger that many cards reference.

However, Daredevil is not one of them.

Daredevil tells you to execute a manoeuvre, which includes triggering "after you execute a manoeuvre" cards.

It then tells you to take a stress token.

It doesn't say "After you execute this manoeuvre, take a stress token".

It is not the same trigger as Kanan, so you can't choose the order in which they resolve.

So 'then' carries more weight than 'immediately' I see.

But I still don't understand what the silly trick is.

So 'then' carries more weight than 'immediately' I see.

"Then" doesn't need to mean anything. The important thing is that the "after executing a manoeuvre" trigger isn't referenced.

So 'then' carries more weight than 'immediately' I see.

"Then" doesn't need to mean anything. The important thing is that the "after executing a manoeuvre" trigger isn't referenced.

And it needs to be moved to the Rules subforum.

And it's very strange that 'after' and 'then' don't become equivalent in this situation.

Why does Kannan trigger on clean up? [...] Unless there was a FAQ ...

Good thing you answered your own question but didn't bother to actually check the FAQ...

So 'then' carries more weight than 'immediately' I see.

"Immediately" carries no weight in X-Wing. Things that happen "after X" trigger at the same time as things that happen "immediately after X".

"Then" doesn't need to mean anything. The important thing is that the "after executing a manoeuvre" trigger isn't referenced.

We need a FAQ on this.

And it needs to be moved to the Rules subforum.

And it's very strange that 'after' and 'then' don't become equivalent in this situation.

No, we don't need a FAQ for that. No, it is not strange.

"Then" never denotes something that triggers off of something else anywhere in the rules. It simply signifies the next step in the game sequence. You finish resolving everything that was triggered by the previous step before you move on to the next step.

Oops, I dun goofed.

I did go and check the FAQ after I wrote that, but I never went back to edit. Thanks for doing it for me!

I guess Kanan got screwed in the FAQ. FFG just arbitrarily states he happens in a specific phase of a phase. Oh well. At least we didn't have to go by what some email said.

Worst FAQ ever. Except for the double Gonk, they got that one right.

To be clear : even without Kanan's FAQ entry, he still couldn't be used to immediately remove Daredevil's stress.

All "after executing a maneuver" abilities trigger BEFORE the "the receive a stress token".