Simple question really. Has anyone managed to find a list that makes the most of Kayn and Advanced Comms. The combo is clear, but 11 points is a lot!

Any list with a big point character is going to run short on activations. This is one reason I thought adv comms should be 0 pts but unique

1 Adv. Comms

10 Kayn Somos

9 Estormies

9 Estormies

2 regular officer

2regular officer

6 regular heavy trooper

1 targeting computer

I just made this up off the top of my head so I don't know if it makes the most of adv comms but you have lots of shots to make

The advantage Kayn has say, over Sorin is the ability to affect two troopers and his attack, while not stupendous, is 3 dice and buffs your fellow troopers. And with 12 health, he'll outlive Sorin usually.

Tried multiple lists and none of them worked. He is too expensive and positioning is still challenging.

I won 4 games in a row at my local shop against people that have played and placed in both regional and worlds tournaments.

Kayn +coms 11

eHeavies +TC 9

Estorm +VF 11

rSnow 7

R officer 2

that was the list. won against 2 bantha lists, an HK+sorin list, and a mixed rebel group.

Sounds good, thanks for the input so far.

I won 4 games in a row at my local shop against people that have played and placed in both regional and worlds tournaments.

Kayn +coms 11

eHeavies +TC 9

Estorm +VF 11

rSnow 7

R officer 2

that was the list. won against 2 bantha lists, an HK+sorin list, and a mixed rebel group.

Do you have a preference for positioning Somos with specific troopers? How do you operate this list?

Not sure about MadFuhrer, but I'd place the EHeavies, officer and one of each stormtrooper with Somos and send the others objective/terminal hunting.

Not sure about MadFuhrer, but I'd place the EHeavies, officer and one of each stormtrooper with Somos and send the others objective/terminal hunting.

Can you explain how you would move/play them?

- Officer for heavies or Somos?

- One of each for what purpose?

- Who are the others for you?

What do you think about placing Somos with eHeavies for damage and keeping snow troopers to heal heavies and Somos?

What do you think about this list?

- Kayn Somos

- Elite Heavy Stormtrooper

- Snowtrooper

- Targeting Computer

- Advanced Com Systems

- Royal Guard

- Imperial Officer

- Probe Droid

Prior to Advanced Com, Somos was pointless due to the fact that a pair of eOfficers could do mostly the same stuff but better, and do some more stuff besides, for the same cost.

After Advanced Com, Somos is still pointless due to the fact that a pair of eOfficers can do mostly the same stuff but better, and do some more stuff besides, for one point less.

The truth is ugly and it hurts, but taking Somos has been, and still is, a handicap to your skirmish play. Only difference with Advanced Com is that it becomes an 11pt handicap instead of a 10pt handicap. Pumping more points into an already bad piece to make it marginally less bad isn't the answer - never was and never will be, in any game.

If you want a piece to support your Troopers, take eSnowtroopers. You can even Cross Train them for the same points. Or, if playing Heavies, take Blaise. Hide is bonkers with those delicious surges, and you're still five points ahead.

I use the officer mostly for somos and tend to run the heavies close to him to receive his focus. I like him over two elite officers as you get more damage per activation which can make a huge difference. The elite storms i tend to focus up first round and use them as effective 6 speed attackers. They become my primary objective takers, if i want to take objectives. the snowtroopers are there almost entirely for heals.

Another reason I like somos is that he attacks with three dice, which again, is far better than officers, and he can be healed by the snows.

It's tough to justify for 11 points. He just doesn't pack enough of a punch. His Firing Squad needs to be more like Leia's Battlefield Leadership. And his Squad Command needs to target 2 troopers.

He has a pretty crappy attack so all of his benefit comes from Firing Squad.

The comment above makes a great point. 2 elite officers do almost exactly the same thing but with more flexibility and more activations for the same points.

I think if you're going to use him, it's needs to be with Elite Heavies. They benefit from a Focus more than any other trooper and they're one of the better ones to shoot twice.

Perhaps that might change with some future releases (I think the dewback rider is a trooper for example). At this stage he's simply too expensive as a pure support character. Here's a lot like Blaise or Murne. He should be around 6-7 points with a bit less health.

I think the whole "single Hero Miniatures from the beginning of the game are too expensive" is becoming a religion here. Kayn Somos with Advanced Com is clearly better than two Elite Officers in Trooper Lists. Let's compare him.

Attack

- He has a very strong three dice Attack himself with great range. His worst Range is 5.

- The Elite Officers are two Attacks with Blue Yellow. But that also means two defense throws instead of one against three dice. The later will do much more damage.

- The Elite Officers have the ability to stun. While this is nice, I found it to be not as powerful as in Campaign.

Defense

- He brings two health more to the table. Against unmitigated Damage, more Hitpoints is better. That White Die won't help against Banthas or Bossk' Indiscrimate Fire, and if you want to defend against that, you lose the officers defense dice bonus.

- That beeing said, you can give your slow Heavys Movement.

Activation Economy

- You get one more Activation with the Elite Officers. While you can pass, this is stronger.

- Flexibility vs. Power: Somos grants two Attacks in one Activation (plus his own). That is in certain cases better. You can take a threat out in one single Activation, and your opponent has no chance to retaliate. That is especially true for Somos primary function: To guard a strategic point.

Signature Card

- "Rally the Troops" sacrifices one action to ready an entire Trooper Group. That is very strong.

Current Maps

- in the current Map Rotation, I'd Say Somos is clearly better than two Elite Officers, since there are some points where you really can hold a position. You will do more damage against the Dianoga with Kayn+Heavies, you can have a brutal opening on Training ground if you open the door to your opponent swiftly (try to get the red deployment zone), and the Warzone has multiple options (mostly in the center) to place your Artillery so it can shot for the entire game.

I think the utility the officers have is just superior, choosing to move or attack any figure and not having to be adjacent from the start (without advance coms) is awesome. What you said requires planning and positioning that your opponent can and will disrupt. Thats why Kayn becomes more situational and difficult to effectively pull off. So personally I feel those 2 are better than his one.

I've consistantly gotten my butt kicked by this list recently:

Kayn

Advanced Comms

eSnowtroopers

eStormtroopers

rHeavyTroopers

rOfficer

Rule by Fear

Zillo Technique

I've consistantly gotten my butt kicked by this list recently:

Kayn

Advanced Comms

eSnowtroopers

eStormtroopers

rHeavyTroopers

rOfficer

Rule by Fear

Zillo Technique

That's cool. I'd be tempted to try Vader's Finest on the eSnows or Heavies to get that first focussed volley.

I've consistantly gotten my butt kicked by this list recently:

Kayn

Advanced Comms

eSnowtroopers

eStormtroopers

rHeavyTroopers

rOfficer

Rule by Fear

Zillo Technique

That's cool. I'd be tempted to try Vader's Finest on the eSnows or Heavies to get that first focussed volley.

hmm. I think the value you get out of RBF and Zillo outweigh the benefits of Vader's finest. Maybe if it was a 1 point card.

Fair enough.

I've consistantly gotten my butt kicked by this list recently:

Kayn

Advanced Comms

eSnowtroopers

eStormtroopers

rHeavyTroopers

rOfficer

Rule by Fear

Zillo Technique

What strategy has the operator of this list used? Positioning, attack? Why eSnowtroopers and not another eStormtroopers group? Remaining point can be used for targeting computer.

I think the whole "single Hero Miniatures from the beginning of the game are too expensive" is becoming a religion here. Kayn Somos with Advanced Com is clearly better than two Elite Officers in Trooper Lists. Let's compare him.

Attack

- He has a very strong three dice Attack himself with great range. His worst Range is 5.

- The Elite Officers are two Attacks with Blue Yellow. But that also means two defense throws instead of one against three dice. The later will do much more damage.

- The Elite Officers have the ability to stun. While this is nice, I found it to be not as powerful as in Campaign.

Defense

- He brings two health more to the table. Against unmitigated Damage, more Hitpoints is better. That White Die won't help against Banthas or Bossk' Indiscrimate Fire, and if you want to defend against that, you lose the officers defense dice bonus.

- That beeing said, you can give your slow Heavys Movement.

Activation Economy

- You get one more Activation with the Elite Officers. While you can pass, this is stronger.

- Flexibility vs. Power: Somos grants two Attacks in one Activation (plus his own). That is in certain cases better. You can take a threat out in one single Activation, and your opponent has no chance to retaliate. That is especially true for Somos primary function: To guard a strategic point.

Signature Card

- "Rally the Troops" sacrifices one action to ready an entire Trooper Group. That is very strong.

Current Maps

- in the current Map Rotation, I'd Say Somos is clearly better than two Elite Officers, since there are some points where you really can hold a position. You will do more damage against the Dianoga with Kayn+Heavies, you can have a brutal opening on Training ground if you open the door to your opponent swiftly (try to get the red deployment zone), and the Warzone has multiple options (mostly in the center) to place your Artillery so it can shot for the entire game.

I think the utility the officers have is just superior, choosing to move or attack any figure and not having to be adjacent from the start (without advance coms) is awesome. What you said requires planning and positioning that your opponent can and will disrupt. Thats why Kayn becomes more situational and difficult to effectively pull off. So personally I feel those 2 are better than his one.

without advance coms, I am on your side, no questions asked. The threat was about Somos and Advance Coms, so taking them away to compare them with the officers doesn't make sense. FF did good bringing advance coms out! With Advance coms, it's much easier to place Somos Turn 1 (for Example, in Coruscant Landfill : Lair of the Dianoga, hHow do you disrupt Somos+ a Group of Heavies placing themselves to shot at the Dianoga? You can't stop them putting in Damage, and the other Mission also is all about the middle Area.

I think the whole "single Hero Miniatures from the beginning of the game are too expensive" is becoming a religion here. Kayn Somos with Advanced Com is clearly better than two Elite Officers in Trooper Lists. Let's compare him.

Attack

- He has a very strong three dice Attack himself with great range. His worst Range is 5.

- The Elite Officers are two Attacks with Blue Yellow. But that also means two defense throws instead of one against three dice. The later will do much more damage.

- The Elite Officers have the ability to stun. While this is nice, I found it to be not as powerful as in Campaign.

Defense

- He brings two health more to the table. Against unmitigated Damage, more Hitpoints is better. That White Die won't help against Banthas or Bossk' Indiscrimate Fire, and if you want to defend against that, you lose the officers defense dice bonus.

- That beeing said, you can give your slow Heavys Movement.

Activation Economy

- You get one more Activation with the Elite Officers. While you can pass, this is stronger.

- Flexibility vs. Power: Somos grants two Attacks in one Activation (plus his own). That is in certain cases better. You can take a threat out in one single Activation, and your opponent has no chance to retaliate. That is especially true for Somos primary function: To guard a strategic point.

Signature Card

- "Rally the Troops" sacrifices one action to ready an entire Trooper Group. That is very strong.

Current Maps

- in the current Map Rotation, I'd Say Somos is clearly better than two Elite Officers, since there are some points where you really can hold a position. You will do more damage against the Dianoga with Kayn+Heavies, you can have a brutal opening on Training ground if you open the door to your opponent swiftly (try to get the red deployment zone), and the Warzone has multiple options (mostly in the center) to place your Artillery so it can shot for the entire game.

I think the utility the officers have is just superior, choosing to move or attack any figure and not having to be adjacent from the start (without advance coms) is awesome. What you said requires planning and positioning that your opponent can and will disrupt. Thats why Kayn becomes more situational and difficult to effectively pull off. So personally I feel those 2 are better than his one.

without advance coms, I am on your side, no questions asked. The threat was about Somos and Advance Coms, so taking them away to compare them with the officers doesn't make sense. FF did good bringing advance coms out! With Advance coms, it's much easier to place Somos Turn 1 (for Example, in Coruscant Landfill : Lair of the Dianoga, hHow do you disrupt Somos+ a Group of Heavies placing themselves to shot at the Dianoga? You can't stop them putting in Damage, and the other Mission also is all about the middle Area.

When I said without advanced comms I was referring to the officers as in they do not need it to do that from the start. Now to compare the one specific instance you brought up. If I have heavies and they attack the Dianoga then I activate each of my officers and have them tell a HT to attack the dianoga, Somos has provided nothing more as the same amount of attacks occurred. There is so many scenarios I can bring up like separating units and officers to get multiple attacks in multiple areas, Attacking a unit with order and killing it unexpectedly (because of a good roll) then using a second order later in the round on a different target. Using one of you officers to hold a terminal or obj while the other is still providing extra attacks. These are things inherently built in that makes their utility far superior.

I've noticed a heap of Imp players swear by Rule by fear? I don't get that choice at all, to me a whole point for an extra card just isn't great. What am i missing with this one?

Xilo technique I totally get, it can allow you to save a trooper etc. but the rest?

When I said without advanced comms I was referring to the officers as in they do not need it to do that from the start. Now to compare the one specific instance you brought up. If I have heavies and they attack the Dianoga then I activate each of my officers and have them tell a HT to attack the dianoga, Somos has provided nothing more as the same amount of attacks occurred. There is so many scenarios I can bring up like separating units and officers to get multiple attacks in multiple areas, Attacking a unit with order and killing it unexpectedly (because of a good roll) then using a second order later in the round on a different target. Using one of you officers to hold a terminal or obj while the other is still providing extra attacks. These are things inherently built in that makes their utility far superior.

But Kayn Somos himself attacks too, and in the Case of the Dianoga, that is better. It's a three dice attack that has a better chance to push through. So you're right that the officers are more flexible, but they won't do a lot of damage. I also think that Stun is strong against certain lists, but in most cases, it's not as strong as in the campaign. Kayn also gives his Focus to another unit in the same round or even same activation, the officer has to wait until he shots again next round and only gets focused himself (Focus on Heavies means a guaranteed blast 2 or +2 damage).

Don't forget that Somos also has access to a strong command card, giving his heavies or another trooper group an entire second activation.

So while depending on play style you might prefer the officers, I'd argue that they are well balanced and Somos got a lot less awkward with the Advance Comms and a good choice if you want to field Heavy Stormtroopers (Not sure about the E-web, I think in that case, Officers might be better).

If you're fishing for particular cards (reinforcements/grenadier etc.) it puts you a turn ahead (2 cards) on the cards you'll see giving you much better chances of pulling the cards you want.

Also there really isn't often a point spent on anything else that'd be useful.

Talking you through one of my lists:

eStorms - 9

eStorms - 9

eISB - 7

eISB - 7

Agent Blaise - 6

Got my 3 spy cards, double eStorms, Blaise is awesome, and I enjoy playing with these pieces, now, what else could I add to finish the list.

Options are:

General's Ranks - Does nothing in this list

Targeting Computer - Does nothing in this list

Advanced Comms - Does nothing in this list

Channel the Force - Does nothing in this list

Unshakeable - Does nothing in this list

Cross Training - Maybe? I prefer eISB's to hit the spy keyword but the white dice is good too on occasions

Rule by Fear - Maybe, decent option, let's come back to it

Vader's Finest - Solid option, gives those troopers some extra punch early on

rOfficer - Great option too, good for Take Initiative, Leader cards, Terminals, Movement, etc.

Zillo Technique - Awesome, might as well be named "alive by one" - It's pierce cancelling effect is handy at times but the real value is in tossing a card to force an opponent to use another attack.

At that point I'm probably choosing between those bottom 3 - I rate Zillo + RBF higher than the Officer or Vader's Finest so go with that.

There's just not a lot of great filler for Imperial atm, you have Zillo in almost every list, then you're generally choosing between RBF and an Officer at low points. 5pts is a good spend on eProbes but from 1-4 pts there's very little of value other than for specific lists (rProbes with Sorin)

Sorry quite a lengthy post but I wanted to explain reasoning and give an example.

I've consistantly gotten my butt kicked by this list recently:

Kayn

Advanced Comms

eSnowtroopers

eStormtroopers

rHeavyTroopers

rOfficer

Rule by Fear

Zillo Technique

That's cool. I'd be tempted to try Vader's Finest on the eSnows or Heavies to get that first focussed volley.

hmm. I think the value you get out of RBF and Zillo outweigh the benefits of Vader's finest. Maybe if it was a 1 point card.

I think I would prefer Targeting Computer for the Heavies over RBF.

When I said without advanced comms I was referring to the officers as in they do not need it to do that from the start. Now to compare the one specific instance you brought up. If I have heavies and they attack the Dianoga then I activate each of my officers and have them tell a HT to attack the dianoga, Somos has provided nothing more as the same amount of attacks occurred. There is so many scenarios I can bring up like separating units and officers to get multiple attacks in multiple areas, Attacking a unit with order and killing it unexpectedly (because of a good roll) then using a second order later in the round on a different target. Using one of you officers to hold a terminal or obj while the other is still providing extra attacks. These are things inherently built in that makes their utility far superior.

But Kayn Somos himself attacks too, and in the Case of the Dianoga, that is better. It's a three dice attack that has a better chance to push through. So you're right that the officers are more flexible, but they won't do a lot of damage. I also think that Stun is strong against certain lists, but in most cases, it's not as strong as in the campaign. Kayn also gives his Focus to another unit in the same round or even same activation, the officer has to wait until he shots again next round and only gets focused himself (Focus on Heavies means a guaranteed blast 2 or +2 damage).

Don't forget that Somos also has access to a strong command card, giving his heavies or another trooper group an entire second activation.

So while depending on play style you might prefer the officers, I'd argue that they are well balanced and Somos got a lot less awkward with the Advance Comms and a good choice if you want to field Heavy Stormtroopers (Not sure about the E-web, I think in that case, Officers might be better).

In the one instance of the dianoga on turn 2-3 when you set up properly and take out the door he can attack and order 2 troopers to attack. Even in that scenario the officer list could put you in a better situation because if they are focused from attacking the door they both attack with 3 die AND a better dice pool. This is starting to go round and round I do not want to beat a dead horse I feel the earlier posts did a fine job illustrating why Samos is not good to field. I do not mind to agree to disagree.