The vanilla version of this list sits at 98 Points:

Rear Admiral Cherarueueaneu

- Engine Upgrade

- Darth Vader

- Gunner

- Veteran Instincts

Whisper

- Adv. Cloaking Device

- Fire Control System

- Veteran Instincts

I have always loved this list for its simplicity and for its seven heavily modified attacks. I've beaten Palp Aces, Dengaroo, and some other meta-try-hards with it (have yet to face triple Scouts). It's pretty much a hard-counter to Palp Aces - which I love. But I'm getting worried.

Whisper can't even be called a glass cannon any more.. She feels like tissue paper. Bump? Dead. Focus fire? Dead, dead. Lazy and land on a rock/debris? Dead - because you deserve it! This ain't no Palp Aces build. You cannot make mistakes.

Making the decision to Vader is a five minute ordeal for me - I think I usually pick correctly but find it harder and harder to justify taking two more damage when the Party Bus just sank two crits and hits into the Decimator's hull.

I may be answering my own question with a resounding "no" but I'm curious about everyone else's thoughts. Can I take this to a tournament and hope to have a winning record?

I know Phildo ran a RAC/Whisper to win the MI regional a few months ago. His list is:

Whisper w/ VI, ACD, FCS

RAC w/ Adaptability, Palp, RC, EU

It's a dangerous list, and with the meta pushing towards PS8 and away from PS9-10 it can do well. Plus the ATs have eliminated most TLTs from the game, which means the fact that Whisper doesn't have AT isn't a big deal. It's a very offensive list though - go big or go home - use Palp on offense to push through some nasty damage before you die.

I know Phildo ran a RAC/Whisper to win the MI regional a few months ago. His list is:

Whisper w/ VI, ACD, FCS

RAC w/ Adaptability, Palp, RC, EU

It's a dangerous list, and with the meta pushing towards PS8 and away from PS9-10 it can do well. Plus the ATs have eliminated most TLTs from the game, which means the fact that Whisper doesn't have AT isn't a big deal. It's a very offensive list though - go big or go home - use Palp on offense to push through some nasty damage before you die.

I think if you're going to do Whisper + RAC, the above list is the way to do it. Palpatine offers so much extra defense to Whisper. Turning one blank die into an evade, which lets you survive one extra round, is a benefit that can't be ignored. It means one extra attack from your 4 red dice railgun and one less attack from the enemy ships going into your Decimator, because they'll have to spend it trying to finish Whisper off. It's the difference between winning and losing a game.

If you're spending 39 points on an Ace, spend 8 more on Palp and make sure it doesn't explode too quickly.

I know Phildo ran a RAC/Whisper to win the MI regional a few months ago. His list is:

Whisper w/ VI, ACD, FCS

RAC w/ Adaptability, Palp, RC, EU

It's a dangerous list, and with the meta pushing towards PS8 and away from PS9-10 it can do well. Plus the ATs have eliminated most TLTs from the game, which means the fact that Whisper doesn't have AT isn't a big deal. It's a very offensive list though - go big or go home - use Palp on offense to push through some nasty damage before you die.

I think if you're going to do Whisper + RAC, the above list is the way to do it. Palpatine offers so much extra defense to Whisper. Turning one blank die into an evade, which lets you survive one extra round, is a benefit that can't be ignored. It means one extra attack from your 4 red dice railgun and one less attack from the enemy ships going into your Decimator, because they'll have to spend it trying to finish Whisper off. It's the difference between winning and losing a game.

If you're spending 39 points on an Ace, spend 8 more on Palp and make sure it doesn't explode too quickly.

I wrote a post of proper praise of these two responses but.. I don't know what happened to it.

Anyway, these ideas are great. Definitely trying this. Rebel Captive has to be one of the most under-rated crew cards in the game.

I ran RAC and Whisper twice last week after getting wrecked a week prior by a similar list. I ran:

RAC w/ Adaptability, Vader, Gunner, EU

Whisper w/ VI, FCS, Intelligence Agent, ACD

I played against Corran Horn in the middle of a Z-95 mini-swarm and against Vader, a generic Defender, and four generic TIEs. Not exactly dominant lists but I did well. Whisper didn't get hit at all against the first list. Intelligence Agent put in a ton of work for me when enemy ships came gunning for him by knowing which direction to decloak. It kept Whisper from getting bumped a single time and made me even get a bit brave and stress him with K-Turns a couple times. RAC lost most of his health from Vader-ing the enemy ships but he took out the big threats quick in both matches. I plan on running it again soon, maybe switching up the crew on RAC and trying to fit Palp in somehow.

I played a Kirk+Whisper list two weeks ago in which the game came down to final salvo (from mutual destruction as time was ending, no less) against Dengaroo. My 7 dice rolled more hits than he got to roll dice. It was glorious.

So yeah, it's viable if flown well. Practice lots. RAC isn't my personal go to for a Deci + Ace, but lots of people like him.

RAC isn't my personal go to for a Deci + Ace, but lots of people like him.

You have to run RAC if you're going Decimator + Whisper unless you just want to concede the matches where the enemy brings a Decimator with Rebel Captive. Granted, it's a small percentage of matches, but if you don't have someone with a PS that's as high as Whisper's, then you're dead in the water against Rebel Captive.

To be honest, I am not sure That Whisper is still compétitive ...

Even with 4dices, she could take à plasma torpedo loose one point and then the Last Shield.

With the feedback array That we saw // with the autoblaster and accuracy corrector...

Or even, basically with a dengar That shot before a lot of Time...

Really you need to be a very good pilot with this ace

I think défendre with X7 ou Darth Vador are morte viable...

The UK nationals top 32 had quite a few Oicunn / Whispers there. I am running it at the moment and Dengaroo is the only thing that I have no idea how to beat (particularly as the guy running it locally bids at like 96/97).

RAC isn't my personal go to for a Deci + Ace, but lots of people like him.

You have to run RAC if you're going Decimator + Whisper unless you just want to concede the matches where the enemy brings a Decimator with Rebel Captive. Granted, it's a small percentage of matches, but if you don't have someone with a PS that's as high as Whisper's, then you're dead in the water against Rebel Captive.

I don't run whisper though. I run Vader+VI+ATS+EU+title. Maybe it's my local meta, but I'm the only one that flies the Deci with any frequency. PS11 Vader is superb against Fel, Whisper, Dengar, and Poe. It's got to be flown a particular way, but once my opponents figure out what they need to be doing, it's too late.

RAC w/ predator, EU, rebel captive and Ysanne Isard with whisper with VI, FCS and ACD just won me a store tournament 4-0. I'm not a great player but I barely broke a sweat in 3 of those games... RAC with Predator is an absolute beast on the table.

Not RAC, but Oicunn and Whisper have won the Naboo Open in Denmark

Whisper + VI + ACD + FCS + Intel Agent

Oicunn + Predator + Palpatine + Rebel Captive + Engine Upgrade

I am of the mind that RAC with VI is going to be very effective against the up and coming meta. So I've been toying around with his builds and, more importantly, how many points are left for his wingmate.

I believe Palp and Rebel Captive is the best crew to choose, with Engine being almost mandatory. Sometimes I throw Proton Bombs/Extra Munitions on in casual play.

That leaves anywhere from 31-38 points (depending on if you choose bombs - most people don't), we'll say 38.

Options:

34 - Standard Inquisitor with Prockets

38 - Adaptability Vader (Engine, title, Adv. Targeting) with Concussion or Cluster

And then you've got Fel and some others with points to spare for initiative.

At 38 points, this is the Whisper you're looking at:

37 points

Whisper

- Adv. Cloaking

- Veteran Instincts

Blah.

I am of the mind that RAC with VI is going to be very effective against the up and coming meta. So I've been toying around with his builds and, more importantly, how many points are left for his wingmate.

I believe Palp and Rebel Captive is the best crew to choose, with Engine being almost mandatory. Sometimes I throw Proton Bombs/Extra Munitions on in casual play.

I came to these same conclusions, which is why I'm currently working with this squad:

I love this.

When I think of Vader I think "squishy" - but you've got the Emperor to help. And Vader doesn't need a ton of help modifying his red dice (I've always found ATC to be generous).

****, I might have to run this.

Only thing, and you seem to have thought about it a couple times, is the title. I am not fan of the title and it stops me from using Thermal Detonators in stead of Seismic... But your logic is pretty solid. You want a TL to push real damage through and proc RAC's ability. And you want to bump from time to time. Ugh.

Seismic it is!

CBMarkham,

I love this list and I Will try it.

But Darth Vador without longe Wolf...

What about removing the sismic to put LW on Darth Vador ( I know... VP 9, but more defensive)...

What is your opinion?

CBMarkham,

I love this list and I Will try it.

But Darth Vador without longe Wolf...

What about removing the sismic to put LW on Darth Vador ( I know... VP 9, but more defensive)...

What is your opinion?

You have a valid point. It certainly would help his damage/defense.

And could save you a Palp use.. But again. The PS war (while not the end-all, be-all) is huge when it comes to repositioning (Vader is an Ace, Aces reposition)

CBMarkham,

I love this list and I Will try it.

But Darth Vador without longe Wolf...

What about removing the sismic to put LW on Darth Vador ( I know... VP 9, but more defensive)...

What is your opinion?

I've also been tinkering with Lone Wolf, but I think the cost is too high. Lone Wolf on Vader in a 2 ship list is very strong, but consider what you lose.

I personally do not trust PS9 with no bid, but that's because I lost a big championship event once with my Lone Wolf Vader when I came up against a Soontir/Deci list where my opponent bought a 3pt bid. I probably wouldn't fly Vader at PS9 without at least a 2pt bid, and because of my paranoid nature, I wouldn't feel REALLY comfortable with it unless I had a 3pt bid.

Here's the version of the list I'd utilize if I were going for a PS9 Vader and a 3pt bid.

I have flown Kenkirk+Vader at a store tourney to victory.

Kenkirk: Palp, Isard, EU, PTL, Ion Bomb

Vader: VI, ATC, Title, EU

Kenkirk is basically a PS 13 after Isard kicks in. You Push off of that to boost out of arcs or whatever action you might need. Vader puts damage through with ATC and Palp. The Zion Bomb adds a bit of control without losing any actions. Which helped a lot.

Now I play Kenkirk no Bomb with Stele in a Defender with X7 and Juke and Ion Engine Mk2. I have a really good record with the list. But 4-Lom screws me up. Losing that evade on the Deci hurts.

Rinzler & CBMarkham you convince me

I should try it without change (ah ah).

Thanks CBMarkham for the analyse it is pretty smart I have to say and I love list That have plenty of solutions.

Basically I Will try it in a tourmament (I planned to play a Oicunn / Vador but...).

Do you have some advice VS Dengaro / triple jumpmaster and Palpymobile n'est génération? (The Meta is like That a lot...).

Rinzler & CBMarkham you convince me

I should try it without change (ah ah).

Thanks CBMarkham for the analyse it is pretty smart I have to say and I love list That have plenty of solutions.

Basically I Will try it in a tourmament (I planned to play a Oicunn / Vador but...).

Do you have some advice VS Dengaro / triple jumpmaster and Palpymobile n'est génération? (The Meta is like That a lot...).

Agreed. I really want to try this list (despite my general distrust of Vader)

As far as tactics, CBMarkham should weigh in, too, but I like to reference my experience flying Doom RAC+Whisper against Dengaroo:

Dengar and RAC did a small circle but eventually flew directly at each other. My opponent thought that I was going to flank with Whisper, but I surprised him and focus fired Dengar down. Using the Vader+Gunner combo on the Rear Admiral really helped push through enough extra damage but I ktep the Deci alive after Dengar died. Then RAC got the 0-PS crit and things went downhill. I was able to kite with the Decimator and got Manaroo down to one hull before Manaroo killed it. Whisper at 1 hull v. Manaroo at 1 hull should be an easy match in Whisper's favor but I forgot that Manaroo had Feedback Array and strayed into range 1. Sad day.

Anyway. Versus Dengaroo you need to choose and focus-fire down one of the ships. It's great to get Dengar off the table but he is a monster. If you go after Manaroo, Dengar will be taking shots at you. I think you have to go after Dengar first.

Going against Jumpmasters, you have to craft the approach so that they cannot focus fire you. RAC melts to Torp shots and most JMK5 players will rush you. Rush back, bump in a way that reduces shots on you to primaries. Get Vader in behind and evade every turn to negate their primaries. It's not a fun matchup, especially with the UNREAL dial that FFG gave to these torp boats.