Hi everybody. I am a new gm and in addition all my friends and i are new to rp games. How realistic do all you other gm make your narratives? i lean more towards making it darker and more to life (sorry should have specified we are playing EoE) especially dealing with gangs and making back stories for our characters. Any input is very appreciated!

That's a little broad, perhaps you should provide examples. I think play can be dark and still be PG13.

EotE is very much like a combination of Star Wars and Firefly, with SW being more heroic but sanitized and Firefly on the grittier side.
My advice would be to watch the original films again, like right now, and then watch some Firefly and try not to get to much darker than that. If you go much darker than Firefly you may lose that Star Wars-y feel.

It also depends on what your group likes. I think you can make Star Wars as gritty and dark as you want, if thats what everyone wants. The end of the prequels should be dark ... the Emperor won, Anakin fell to the dark side, the Jedi were all murdered. Or you can have it be as happy fluffy bunny as you want ... jokes, funny little aliens, the good guys always win. There is plenty of room for it all in Star Wars. It doesn't even need to be EPIC in scale. The one thing that makes it Star Wars to me is that you find out pretty quick who is a black hat, and who is a white hat. And the gray does not stay gray for long. Everyone picks a side. People who change sides exist, but it takes a big effort to do it.

The short answer is that it really does depend on your group and their collective tastes. Run your ideas past your players, and get their buy-in. Maybe they're cool with your idea of 'realistic narrative', maybe not. This is something you have to establish as a group.

It is always important when starting up any new game, campaign, or group to (re-)establish the social contract*. At it's most basic this covers:

• What game we're playing.
• Establishing the play schedule.
• Basic ground rules about attendance, notification of absence, conflict resolution, etc...
• Establishing what sort of content is (and is NOT) considered appropriate.
• Establishing the scope of use of the game's rule set (examples include: what books are in use, what house rules are in effect, and so forth).
• What sort of characters the players should consider making and/or avoiding.
• A pitch giving the basic premise of the campaign. Your players will likely have some suggestions that will make it even more awesome!

So a few things I would caution against (mostly because I just had this argument with someone putting together a campaign):

1. Star Wars does have a certain feel, as has been noted. Super-serious and loaded with gravitas is definitely not the feel you get from the movies and cartoons. I've never been one for the novels/comics, so I can't comment on their content. Of course, who knows if Rogue One will have the same feel as the other movies, or will it be 'edgier'? Just make sure everyone is on-board with your vision of an 'edgier, grittier' Star Wars.
2. In most RPG games I've ever played in, things start out all super serious, but eventually it's all running gags, pratfalls, out-of-character jokes, and general mischief (and that's just the game master). No plan theme ever survives contact with players.
3. Be careful about 'realism' in terms of mechanical effects. Making this a game about counting every last ounce of your Oxygen supply is not really in the tone of a pulpy space opera. Sure, it makes for a great tense scene every now and then, but if I wanted to play a game where I have to account for every last item in my inventory all the time I'd play Shadowrun**.

* Yes, even with groups that I've played with for 10 years or more this is important!

** Which, to be fair, I do.

I find that maintaining "darkness" requires a lot of effort for everyone involved. I tried a gritty, realistic Rebellion-era game (in Saga system), I've played in some very mature-themed World of Darkness games, and I've played games set in some pretty horrific settings. Nothing stops the fart jokes, the Monty Python references, and the general tomfoolery.

Part of that, certainly, is the people I play with. Partly though, I think it's that people play RPGs to have fun which elicits "fun" behavior. No one wants to be desperate or depressed voluntarily - that isn't fun. If you have a like-minded group that's dedicated to your ideal, I think "dramatic" is a good starting place. Trying to go too dark or too gritty seems to turn people off (or attract the wrong sort of people).

Star Wars is a collection of action movie one liners and that seat of the pants fun. To me the fun and action in Star Wars and the feel of it summed up is easy. Harrison Ford, Han Solo/Indiana Jones.

"Never tell me the odds" "I've got a bad feeling about this." "It's not my fault" etc. I just don't know how you make that dark and still have Star Wars. Maybe it's doable, but I like saying that dumb **** at the table, I'd be the plucky comic relief among the darkness I spose...

Star Wars is a collection of action movie one liners and that seat of the pants fun. To me the fun and action in Star Wars and the feel of it summed up is easy. Harrison Ford, Han Solo/Indiana Jones.

"Never tell me the odds" "I've got a bad feeling about this." "It's not my fault" etc. I just don't know how you make that dark and still have Star Wars. Maybe it's doable, but I like saying that dumb **** at the table, I'd be the plucky comic relief among the darkness I spose...

Well its more about making sure you have your high and low point. I don't think star wars is really about or any good at a dark gritty and realistic story. Its about people picking up excaliber and flying by the seat of their pants as cocksure cowboys and mystic knights. Generally all that lightheartedness makes the actual bad stuff a lot more apparent when it does happen. Luke, Han and Leia escaping the Death Star in a make it up as you go plans and quips makes Han abandoning them and Luke's squadron getting picked off by Vader a lot darker than it would otherwise be.

I think Star Wars is best when its about putting stark contrasts next to each other in terms of tonal shifts. You want your players to be having a pretty positive time for the most part but then have some very clear cut dark moments right before they have a chance to undo the damage of that dark moment. Han coming back to save Luke is the pretty clear example for this. Its not some high concept drama and honestly it just works to play a simple light -> dark moment -> light comes back, at least in my experience.

In terms of realism dont even think about it, it doesnt work with the setting, the system or even he general tone.

My Clone Wars games embrace the cheesieness of Episode 2. Lightsaber fight on the outside of a ship flying through atmo? Eh, it's just a green screen and a fan, no coordination checks needed.

We do wacky and dark at the same time. We snuck into a floating Imperial fortress (it was built into a big chunk of rock and held aloft with repulsorlifts). All to rescue one guy being held prisoner there. We couldn't get out of the place clean, so we went to the control center to fly it and crash it.

As we're piloting this huge chunk of rock, Stormtroopers are breaking in and trying to kill us. We panic because we need to get out NOW. We crashed it into a building, then jumped out, allowing the fall protection systems around the building to catch us.

We took out an entire base and jumped out, and lived. We even took out a TIE fighter by tipping the rock over into it and smashing it. We did the impossible, and really damaged the Empire. But at the same time, the building we'd crashed into with desperation was occupied, and many innocent people were killed. My character, who was at the controls, has been dealing with the guilt since and it has made him try to be more careful about killing people, or endangering innocents. He even saved a nemesis enemy from bleeding out after shooting him and critting, by doing first aid and calling for our crew's doctor.

Star Wars has moments of pathos. Alderaan blowing up, Luke and Anakin each losing a hand, Padme dying and Anakin going to the dark side, Anakin's mom being killed which makes him murder an entire tribe of Sandpeople (even the kids). But those moments are relieved by the humor and action surrounding them. I think that balance is what gives Star Wars its feel. That's what you should aim for.

"Never tell me the odds" "I've got a bad feeling about this." "It's not my fault" etc. I just don't know how you make that dark and still have Star Wars. Maybe it's doable, but I like saying that dumb **** at the table, I'd be the plucky comic relief among the darkness I spose...

TCW and Rebels go even further, and the whole PT is about how Hannibal Lector takes over the galaxy. Yep, dark.

In the context of a group of grown men and women sitting around my table and pretending to be characters in the fictional Star Wars universe, I honestly don't know what "realistic" means. I try to make ensure that the group narrative is cohesive and feels like a side-story that could actually be happening during the original trilogy of films.

For me, that means:

• PG/PG-13 rating
• Ripping off the tones and story beats of Westerns, World War II movies, Japanese samurai films, and adventure/serial movies and pulp stories from the 1940s and 1950s
• A bit of late-1970s/early-1980s funkiness

I suppose that isn't realism but realism and scientific accuracy aren't what I'm looking for with Star Wars . There are other games that do that better.

"Never tell me the odds" "I've got a bad feeling about this." "It's not my fault" etc. I just don't know how you make that dark and still have Star Wars. Maybe it's doable, but I like saying that dumb **** at the table, I'd be the plucky comic relief among the darkness I spose...

That seems kind of selective. Star Wars is plenty dark: "I am your father." "This deal is getting worse all the time." "No disintegrations." "They never even asked me any questions."

TCW and Rebels go even further, and the whole PT is about how Hannibal Lector takes over the galaxy. Yep, dark.

SWTOR has the Hutts using gas chambers for actual genocide on Nar Shadda.

SWTOR has the Hutts using gas chambers for actual genocide on Nar Shadda.

Not to mention that whatever Jabba had been doing to Oola, she decided that she'd rather be ranchor food than go through it again.

As to the original question, though; the other three campaigns that I run throughout the year are World of Darkness, Dark Heresy, and Warhammer Fantasy RP. Between the three of them, I get plenty of dark; so I try to run Star Wars a little lighter (the operative word being 'try'; things still sometimes turn out bleaker than I meant for them to be).

I wanted to wait for the OP to elaborate a little more, but to answer the question: my current campaign blends realism for plotting and Lucasfilm theatrics for action and resolution. I draw inspiration from crime drama (The Wire, Justified, The Shield, etc.) because they portray the anatomy of organized crime, and the up-and-down motivations supporting the enterprise; as well as villains who are complex and sympathetic enough to be of some (risky) use to the party. Then, I hand-wave some of the grimmer realities — player characters know when a captive has told them everything, incidental bad guys don't need to be tracked down and silenced; things like that.

With an IP like Star Wars, it's tough to nail down one "tone". From the variety of responses here -- all of which are reasonable to some degree or another -- you see what has always been the case: that there are many "Star Wars". Canon gives us some hints at what might be considered a dominant tone -- kinetic space opera with swashbuckling adventure -- but everywhere within that there are nooks and crannies that suggest both darker and more lighthearted nuances. Sometimes those nuances -- from hokey fart jokes to grim patricide -- make themselves more prominently felt than the generic trappings. How much you want your campaign to emphasize these is up to you. There is evidence in nearly every piece of canon that suggests you could take it in either direction.

My advice: if you want to go dark, go dark. Don't listen to the naysayers who claim Star Wars doesn't do dark "well". Sure, you might need some balance -- avoid going Warhammer 40K Grimdark, for example. Humour is a strong quality of this IP, and not to be ignored -- but you can have "dark humour". The suggestion above to use Firefly as a reference point is really great. Very dark humour there, sometimes. Here's a clip I like to use as guidance for "dark, but funny":

Everyone's advice above is solid. I would add that for my games, I *always* show artwork, imagery, etc. when describing places or people. There is an infinite amount of imagery online for anything you need, especially star wars. Need to show your PC's what a force-using Kel-Dor child looks like? You can likely find it. Use a tablet or laptop to show imagery as you describe things. They're fighting an evil Sith sorceress? Show her to the PC's.

Also, use real life examples to help if you need. Keep things "Star Wars" as everyone else has said, but ground it in something in RL or seen in the movies for context.

With an IP like Star Wars, it's tough to nail down one "tone".

So much this.

Is Star Wars 'Caravan of Courage' or 'Holiday Special'? Or is it 'Death Troopers' and 'Red Harvest'?

There's no One True Way in an RPG. You can play it how you want.

We had weeks of brainstorming and discussion before starting our game. Yes, we were out to slay some Sacred Cows from the start, but I asked the players what they wanted from a Star Wars game. Two points came out overwhelmingly - one, the PCs had to be front and centre, the heroes and the drivers of the campaign. And two, make it darker and more 'grown-up' with complicated choices and tough decisions, complex 'shades of grey'. Our campaign was built on these foundations.

And yet, I'm kinda squeamish about violence, actually. They wanted 'adult' which is fine, but I didn't want it ramped up to 11 like Tarantino or Game of Thrones. I found a nice balance in the Bioware games like 'Mass Effect' and 'Dragon Age' - undeniably aimed at adults, filled with grey morality and weighty decisions, but the sex and violence are themes and motifs, not the only reason for playing. Sure, the galaxy is violent, and I needed to show this - killing someone produces real blood, it's not an easy way of getting what you want like some 80's action movie. But there's a reason for it, we're not revelling in nastiness for the sake of it. (I actually liked the Jakku scene from the new movie, where we actually see blood smeared across Finn's helmet, and his horrified reaction to it).

One of our EoE groups feels very 'Guardians of the Galaxy' and is probably truest to the pulp roots of Star Wars - they are good-natured scoundrels, always on the run from some misadventure. But they've had horror stories and heavy moments too. The other EoE group is deeper into the 'scum and villainy' aspect, deep in debt (emotional or actual) with a charming, ruthless, ambitious crime lord on her way to the top. They know they are trading their freedom and morality for power and influence, and she's making them do it with a smile.

The AOR game is grittier than I expected; we decided to focus not on the War but on those who fight it. How hard is it to fight a just, moral war, when up against enemies who have no qualms fighting dirty? Turns out, its very hard indeed. The Special Forces group contains some of the sweetest, most idealistic characters, and a few outright terrorists. The War is presented as a nasty affair; slitting throats of clone troopers and stormtroopers is the norm because clones make terrible prisoners. Executions and torture interrogations are fairly commonplace, at least until they got an official interrogator (that said, reducing someone to tears and effectively destroying their personality isn't nice either - one PC commented that it might have actually been kinder to use the welding torch on their prisoner than permanently reduce him to a gibbering barely-functioning wreck...)

Our F&D campaign deals in mystery, mysticism and the supernatural - in a campaign where the Force cares nothing for good or evil, and is an unknowable, inchoate mystery even to the Jedi. Ghosts and demons may well exist, the supernatural is a major force (pun intended) and everyone must confront the extremes of their own personality. Horror is pretty much the norm here, and there are no real good guys or bad guys in that. The most psychotic, murderous PC (sort of a love-child of Deadpool and Harley Quinn) had her 'Carrie' moment when she accidentally slaughtered her classmates in Force Camp, and another PC is possessed by the ghost of a pupil who died that day. And this is the Good Guys faction.

And in all of this, I try to preserve the classic Star Wars themes of friendship, sacrifice, courage, redemption and Doing the Right Thing. Not everyone does these things, but the PCs are still meant to be the heroes. It's just much harder to do that in a galaxy that doesn't bend over backwards to make sure the protagonists never have to make a tough choice.

Two points came out overwhelmingly - one, the PCs had to be front and centre, the heroes and the drivers of the campaign. And two, make it darker and more 'grown-up' with complicated choices and tough decisions, complex 'shades of grey'. Our campaign was built on these foundations.

And yet, I'm kinda squeamish about violence, actually. They wanted 'adult' which is fine, but I didn't want it ramped up to 11 like Tarantino or Game of Thrones. I found a nice balance in the Bioware games like 'Mass Effect' and 'Dragon Age' - undeniably aimed at adults, filled with grey morality and weighty decisions, but the sex and violence are themes and motifs, not the only reason for playing. Sure, the galaxy is violent, and I needed to show this - killing someone produces real blood, it's not an easy way of getting what you want like some 80's action movie. But there's a reason for it, we're not revelling in nastiness for the sake of it. (I actually liked the Jakku scene from the new movie, where we actually see blood smeared across Finn's helmet, and his horrified reaction to it).

...

And in all of this, I try to preserve the classic Star Wars themes of friendship, sacrifice, courage, and Doing the Right Thing. Not everyone does these things, but the PCs are still meant to be the heroes. It's just much harder to do that in a galaxy that doesn't bend over backwards to make sure the protagonists never have to make a tough choice.

Wow, it sounds like we had very similar campaign planning sessions. Mass Effect and Dragon Age were absolutely my key tonal touchstones, alongside Ghost in the Shell and Blade Runner (although more for setting than for tone -- I just like urban Star Wars).

Wow, it sounds like we had very similar campaign planning sessions. Mass Effect and Dragon Age were absolutely my key tonal touchstones, alongside Ghost in the Shell and Blade Runner (although more for setting than for tone -- I just like urban Star Wars).

The whole point of doing it was 'let's do Star Wars for grown-ups' but I didn't want it to become a cheap sex & violence thing either.

Bioware games seem to have a good grasp on what makes a game 'adult' without turning it up to 11. In general we play fairly serious games - there's some in-character humour, the genre has pulp roots after all, but I'm lucky that my players 'buy in' to what I'm trying to do.

Also Mass Effect borrows so heavily from Star Wars in the first place!

Star Wars has always been family friendly but that definition has shifted depending on the times and sensibilities of the audiences and creators. The SW franchise is violent - it has "Wars" in the name (and the original cut of what became Episode IV was borderline graphic compared to other violent or scary family movies I remember watching in the 1980s) - but it's tempered by its obvious moralizing about Good and Evil, so it isn't confusing for younger viewers who they should be rooting for.

So, yeah, Guardians of the Galaxy , which is SW meets Indiana Jones meets Robin Hood, is a good approach for Edge.

Return of the Jedi and Attack of the Clones had bare midriff action that can impress itself upon the budding sexuality of young minds but even that is fairly chaste. You can see equally revealing garb in family friendly black-and-white sci-fi and horror films between the 1940s and 1950s. I would also argue that sex and sexuality in most modern genre films isn't particularly realistic nor does it illustrate anything other than the protagonist has a strong libido and is attractive to other people. That's not even a conflict that can move the story along or provide good role-playing, it's just a character detail. I didn't need to see Lando in bed to know that he's a ladies man; his cool guy smoothness and interactions with Leia were enough to illustrate that.

Wow, it sounds like we had very similar campaign planning sessions. Mass Effect and Dragon Age were absolutely my key tonal touchstones, alongside Ghost in the Shell and Blade Runner (although more for setting than for tone -- I just like urban Star Wars).

The whole point of doing it was 'let's do Star Wars for grown-ups' but I didn't want it to become a cheap sex & violence thing either.

Bioware games seem to have a good grasp on what makes a game 'adult' without turning it up to 11. In general we play fairly serious games - there's some in-character humour, the genre has pulp roots after all, but I'm lucky that my players 'buy in' to what I'm trying to do.

Also Mass Effect borrows so heavily from Star Wars in the first place!

Imo you forgot the add the word "Young" in that post, it belongs right before the 'adult' when you describe bioware games, especially when you consider how formulaic and gamey the whole "romance" options in bioware titles are.

Return of the Jedi had bare midriff action that can impress itself upon the budding sexuality of young minds

It carbonised my hormones, in fact. I had just turned 13, and I went from wanting to be Leia to just wanting her.

Blast you, George Lucas! (Oh wait, I have more options now! Thank you, George!)

when you describe bioware games, especially when you consider how formulaic and gamey the whole "romance" options in bioware titles are.

I take it you've never romanced Sera in Inquisition, then

Dammit, Maelora, now I really want to play in one of your games!