I'm new to IA in general, but I'm not really able to judge the current meta, even after reviewing tournament data/lists on here.

I can clearly see call outs to pre-nerf lists, such as 4x4... But what is there now?

I've no interest in copying those lists, more, I'd like to know what I'm trying to build my own lists to accommodate -- it's never perfect, of course, but it is useful to have something to anticipate, especially as a new player.

Deployment and Command cards, I suppose...

It seems that a lot of lists are viable these days.

Generally Imperial trooper spam seems to be the most popular, and for reasons unknown to mankind, people seem to prefer Stormtroopers w cross-training over Superior Snowtroopers. Most lists have 2x eStormtroopers 1 or 2 rOfficers and whatever else you like.

For rebels, you want Gideon and 3PO, either rWookies, eSaboteurs or eTroopers with whatever characters that suit your fancy

Scum likes Gideon and 3PO (at least until Jabba is out), rHKs seem popular, as is Bantha Rider, Bossk and eNexu.

My two cents are; play what you want. Most stuff in the game is pretty good and you can get by with it. As far as I can see, you want between 6-8 activations each turn and this seems to be superior to having strong characters.

My two cents are; play what you want. Most stuff in the game is pretty good and you can get by with it. As far as I can see, you want between 6-8 activations each turn and this seems to be superior to having strong characters.

Cripes, I keep getting to 5 activations and running out of points. Gonna have to take another look at that.

Which faction do you prefer?

Which faction do you prefer?

Imperial, but mostly out of habit. I'll probably play around with Scum, once Jabba hits. And I'm liking that Rebels have more Force Users at a reasonable cost...

But, for the sake of discussion, Imperial, I suppose.

EDIT: But the thread was more interested in seeing what I might expect to see at an event, so would technically be nice to see what each faction considers their top list. I can tell you, off the top of my head, what you might see at an X-Wing event. Armada a bit less, but I could make a couple of educated guesses, even with the new waves.

Generally Imperial trooper spam seems to be the most popular, and for reasons unknown to mankind, people seem to prefer Stormtroopers w cross-training over Superior Snowtroopers. Most lists have 2x eStormtroopers 1 or 2 rOfficers and whatever else you like.

Isn't the Cross-training just to get the Spy trait for all the Spy command cards?

Generally Imperial trooper spam seems to be the most popular, and for reasons unknown to mankind, people seem to prefer Stormtroopers w cross-training over Superior Snowtroopers.

I think the reason is fairly well known, estormies are more consistently useful and deal more damage than esnowies.(+2 damage much better than pierce2, free reroll better than required action to discard 1 condition OR recover only 1) eSnowies are useful, but probably only take one deployment and sometimes cheaper to sub them for the regular snowies. While usually you'd max out on the eStormies, cross-training brings in a really good spy card

You might want to check out the Vader's Finest podcast, specifically the Gen Con prep episode. It goes over a variety of lists you might expect to see at the tournament, which I think will answer a lot of questions you have.

Common things I've seen are:

A lot of 2x eStormie lists, with Grand Inquisitor thrown in sometimes, or other troopers, plus an officer or two. It's this list that they had in mind when they designed Jabba.

Bantha with some other beasts and HKs (and of course Gideon and C3PO), though the Bantha craze has died down of late, and a list centering on Bossk and HKs and then whatever else (and, again, every Skum list brings in Gideon and C3PO right now). Also intriguing is the strain-focused list, which I haven't seen a lot of but hope to. It plays differently and shakes up how people play a bit more.

Rebels, who are they? But seriously I see some Rebels being played. A lot of eSabs and some heavy melee hitters, as well as some Twins lists (see the other thread about this list for more on that). Some force user lists will probably crop up. I personally like playing Rebels, but they are probably not the strongest faction.

But the main thing is that everything really is wide open. There is no equivalent to the 4x4 because the game is in much better shape now. You'll probably see a little bit of everything, plus some ugnaught and hired guns spam list that you'll never see coming.

Really the list that takes the most specific strategy to combat is probably the Bantha list, and maybe a Vader list, but mostly I would just build a list that is fun and you'll soon find out what its shortcomings and strengths are and you can tweak accordingly.

-ryanjamal

I started listening to Vader's First a day or so ago, though have been cherry picking older episodes instead of jumping into the most recent.

I've been toying around with a list builder, and have a good feel for where Imperial lists look like, and somewhat of an idea how Rebels function.

Have not played around with Scum yet.

Are there units across all factions that never seem to be worth it, given the current resources? Again, something I can easily spout off in X-Wing, Armada is actually mostly balanced, and I'm seeing a couple of things I consider not particularly viable in IA, but I'm not sure if there's some that come through in practice more than on paper.

Units not particularly viable as far as cost efficiency and the fact they don't attack enough for their cost (the usual competitive skirmish game lasts 3-4 rounds so that's 3-4 attacks at most with a big costing unit unless they have ways to attack more):

Han (A designer actually said Han got nerfed just before the game released. Here's a link to that it's really interesting stuff! https://www.reddit.com/r/ImperialAssaultTMG/comments/4u24y5/if_you_could_ask_the_lead_developer_of_imperial/d5mchyx- this is just a small part of the whole thread but one of the original designers directly addressed the topic!)

Chewy (One third of your list, and only one attack...)

Vader (Slow, no gap closer, half your list, run away from him and do other things)

IG-88 (Easy to kill, hard to get into a good place to really take advantage of his strengths and he's too expensive)

Boba Fett (Doesn't die usually but also doesn't get to hit hard enough or often enough for his cost)

Kayn Somos (for 10 points you can get two E Officers with next to none of the drawbacks of Kayn or you can pay another point to make him have a chance of being effective with Advanced Comms)

General Weiss (A lot of points, he goes down you're likely done, still only attacks once)

Can you make these guys work? Sure. Maybe. Sometimes. But you're almost always better off taking more efficient deployment cards that help you get to that 6-8 activations.

Whoah, with that under the bridge, why don't they release a FAQ or a even a replacement card in some of the expansion or add on packs. A skirmish upgrade card or something. So many of those core set figures are written like they are campaign only. Even with 2 added blocks per () I don't know if Han is worth 12pts. He's really bad right now. I've played him many times and he really only gets his ability maybe once per match if you're lucky and 12 heath on his defense is nothing great.

The Core cost and the fact that most of the really well-known characters (Han, Chewie, BOBA, Vader, IG etc) are not worth playing in skirmish, are the two things that really hold skirmish back as far as taking off and being more easily accessible to new players

Whoah, with that under the bridge, why don't they release a FAQ or a even a replacement card in some of the expansion or add on packs. A skirmish upgrade card or something. So many of those core set figures are written like they are campaign only. Even with 2 added blocks per () I don't know if Han is worth 12pts. He's really bad right now. I've played him many times and he really only gets his ability maybe once per match if you're lucky and 12 heath on his defense is nothing great.

The Core cost and the fact that most of the really well-known characters (Han, Chewie, BOBA, Vader, IG etc) are not worth playing in skirmish, are the two things that really hold skirmish back as far as taking off and being more easily accessible to new players

Yeah part of the problem is still that expensive characters for the most part only get one attack per round, unlike E stormtroopers who get three attacks and three figures to use. That's why new uniques are much more aggressively costed and have more usable abilities in general. Action economy is a huge disadvantage for older uniques in general.

If you listen to the interview done recently by boardwars.eu of Paul Winchester and Todd, you'll hear that they are well aware of these things and are working on ways to fix problems. What that looks like in specific instances/characters, they can't say because it's a future product. But they do read these forums and are well aware of the problem. Part of the issue is that the development cycle is about a year out from concept to our hands. And so to make big/even little changes can have huge effects.

This is part of the reason they waited until after Worlds last year to issue the errata on the Royal Guards, Saboteurs, and Officers. They had to get more data and see what the problem actually looked like in the wider world of the game (it was bad) and then they had to come up with fixes that actually work well (I believe they did) but it obviously has affected some more characters - i.e. Vader took a huge hit when Officers got nerfed because now he's got less ways to speed him up.

They are releasing all of the things you suggested in your post, just not all of the characters have been dealt with yet (and it is possible that some will not who knows). The other thing we have to think about is that when a new card comes out it can have potentially hundreds (or more) of interactions with the existing cards and the potential to do more damage and break something is way easier than to actually fix the current problems.

everyone has a favorite Star Wars character, that they want to play. If that Character is terrible in the game, players will likely lose interest and find something else to spend their money on.

Right now the massive problems are IG, Boba Fett, Darth Vader, Han and Chewie. They should really make new cards for these guys.

The problem though, as I see it isn't only the cost of the specific character, but that characters interaction within the rules of the game.

Boba Fett, for instance. How do you price a model that is almost impossible to kill? He has great speed, great attack dice, access to good surges, and an alright secondary special. You can't just say that he's now 10 pts, because then he's too good. Adjust him to 12 pts and he's still too expensive (Bossk + Greedo would always be better) Boba Fett is nicely designed for the campaign, but not for Skirmish. I think it's annoying that just because FFG wanted to release him early on, he i terrible.

. I have tried Fett, and he is just outshined by newer releases. And it's actually one of the reasons I never really have had a lot of interest in IA. The strength of this game is the brand. There are so many other and better miniature games out there (the LOS system here is a joke for instance), I believe a lot of new players simply dump this game in favor of another because all the things that attracted them to the game doesn't really work.

FFG needs to adress this asap. Nobody cares about stormtroopers and bantha riders, it's about the iconic heroes and villains of the Star Wars universe sluggin' it out.

everyone has a favorite Star Wars character, that they want to play. If that Character is terrible in the game, players will likely lose interest and find something else to spend their money on.

FFG needs to adress this asap. Nobody cares about stormtroopers and bantha riders, it's about the iconic heroes and villains of the Star Wars universe.

I don't disagree with you and I don't think many here would, but these things don't just happen overnight. FFG has revealed a new Luke card so they're open to new cards of past characters. Assuming Han, Vader, etc get new cards this should work itself out in the long run. Additionally, maybe no-one cares about Stormtroopers and Banthas but Jabba's Palace features new cards/figures for Jabba and the Rancor that a lot of people are very excited about, so it's not like they're not making interesting and exciting products in the meantime.

There are so many other and better miniature games out there (the LOS system here is a joke for instance),

Woaah wait a minute, what's wrong with the los system? Seems great to me, initially though to grasp but once you've got it makes sense and works great.

Also not sure what other miniature games you think are better? Different maybe but I can't think of any similar game that works as well out is as well balanced as ia atm, sure there are some bits over/under costed but nothing is dominant at the moment really.

I still think boba can work in the right list, you just need to design around points retention, I've got a couple games with him on the channel where he works OK.

Regards stormtroopers I'm not sure there's anything more iconic for star wars so we'll have to agree to disagree there bantha riders aren't seen too much anymore as once you know what they do you can mitigate their effectiveness pretty easily.

Tl;dr version, the games in a fantastic place atm and bar a few figures is fantastically well balanced. Even Chewbacca and boba can be really effective in the right lists and Han although probably the worst of the bunch was doing good work in lists like smuggler box where c3po stage behind him for an evade

Rich

Agreed. Reading through it now, I can see that I come of as overly negative. I do think, that the expansions from Hoth and onwards are very well balanced. Leia, Obi, Dengar, Greedo, Inquisitor, Blaise and Bossk are balanced and great characters, so obviously they're getting better at finding the sweet spot for new releases.

I too am very excited about Jabbas Realm, I fully expect it to be the best expansion yet.

Generally it's just a few cards that are the problem, and they should be able to fix those cards fairly easily.

In my opinion, Lando is perfect design. He is not to expensive, he has some great abilities and some drawbacks, but what is just as important, he FEELS like Lando. They've sat down and discussed 'what kind of dude is this guy?' And what they came up with is spot on how to reflect that in his game version. I wish they had that kind of ingenuity when designing him for X-wing. The gambling aspect is perfectly executed and combined with his command card, you get the idea of him. He's a gifted gambler and he cheats. It's beautifully done, a masterstroke in game design if you ask me.

This is how they should have done Han and Fett. Focus on that one thing that defines them and further explore the character via his command card.

Obi-Wan is the same deal, his mind trick is the focus, and of course he focus a dude when he dies. . Inquisitor is raw power embodied, and at 9 points he is not just viable, but perfectly costed.

Greedo is amazing design as well. Extremely strong but also not very talented. He's cheaper than his abilities imply, but his drawback makes up for it. I love how he is designed.

So, I do think the game is getting better and better as FFG gets better at balancing their models. And I am looking forward to 7 pts Han and 8 pts Chewbacca.

There are so many other and better miniature games out there (the LOS system here is a joke for instance),

Woaah wait a minute, what's wrong with the los system? Seems great to me, initially though to grasp but once you've got it makes sense and works great.

Also not sure what other miniature games you think are better? Different maybe but I can't think of any similar game that works as well out is as well balanced as ia atm, sure there are some bits over/under costed but nothing is dominant at the moment really.

I still think boba can work in the right list, you just need to design around points retention, I've got a couple games with him on the channel where he works OK.

Regards stormtroopers I'm not sure there's anything more iconic for star wars so we'll have to agree to disagree there bantha riders aren't seen too much anymore as once you know what they do you can mitigate their effectiveness pretty easily.

Tl;dr version, the games in a fantastic place atm and bar a few figures is fantastically well balanced. Even Chewbacca and boba can be really effective in the right lists and Han although probably the worst of the bunch was doing good work in lists like smuggler box where c3po stage behind him for an evade

Rich

That you can shoot around walls is clunky. That two stormtroopers can block los to a door is stupid, that meat shields are better than cover is silly, the list goes on.

I think Warmachine and X-wing are better, to name a couple. But I like IA, just not the LoS rules and all the crazy like Blaise interrogsting doors about rebel activities by shooting at then.

I really like the shooting round walls piece, representing a superior firing spot leaning around a wall to take shots.

Agreed on the door though, although I get that from a gameplay point of view it makes sense. It's a balance between realism and mechanics.

Blaise is a game mechanic so I get the frustration but again, it's just getting that balance. It makes just as much sense as a Snow trooper shooting at a door to get focused, or an ISB agent deciding the best way to stay hidden is to fire maniacally at the door.

I enjoy the small amount of Warmachine I've played (about a dozen matches with Circle Orboros) however it's a different game and very different. From what I recall in Warmahordes however, half of the casters are unusable and it's VERY much not beginner friendly needing to know everything you can do, as well as all your opponents tricks, you get something wrong you lose.

X-Wing's great, no arguments there, but I find this a more tactical game, I dropped X-Wing as turrets become more and more proficient, as a dog fighting game between fighters with a front arc it's fantastic, when everything has a 360 turret it's just not even an average game in my opinion. (Others clearly feel differently though)

RE: Chewbacca, try him with Leia and he can be pretty brutal, I think he's "fine" against a lot of lists, but he suffers against the proliferation of troopers as he can smash one trooper, but that damage isn't carrying over anywhere. Against anything with more than 7-8 health he can be absolutely brutal and fire multiple times with Leia as well as protecting her and being nigh on un-killable himself.

I'll have a go at a list with Chewie and Leia again and post the game up on the channel soon against a decent list, it'll compete at least.

Maybe I should see it as a challenge and go through making some competitive lists with what's seen as the under powered options, that might be interesting

RE: Chewbacca, try him with Leia and he can be pretty brutal, I think he's "fine" against a lot of lists, but he suffers against the proliferation of troopers as he can smash one trooper, but that damage isn't carrying over anywhere. Against anything with more than 7-8 health he can be absolutely brutal and fire multiple times with Leia as well as protecting her and being nigh on un-killable himself.

I'll have a go at a list with Chewie and Leia again and post the game up on the channel soon against a decent list, it'll compete at least.

Maybe I should see it as a challenge and go through making some competitive lists with what's seen as the under powered options, that might be interesting

I just watched your game with Boba, Nexu, Nexu and so on.

I like that list. Will you put Jabba in there instead og Gideon and 3PO, when he comed out? I think the focus anywhere on the table will be huge with those fast Nexi, not to mention Boba Fett.

I would also consider taking Greedo instead of the Hired Guns. I know it's going to be low on models that way, But greedo just deals so much damage on his own.

Yea I'll likely add Jabba at least to try it when he comes out, I'm not sure he's as good, particularly with 3po adding an evade for those Nexu, but I think it's worth trying.

I'm going to try the list again soon as I made a couple of misplays that game (gifted him the points for the Hired Guns not moving the second one, and overextended Boba when I really didn't need to)

I don't think it'll be top tier, but I think it could be effective.

Made up a list with Chewbacca as well that I'll do another video for just to try and illustrate I think he can do a job in the right list:

Chewbacca

Leia

Obi-Wan

MHD-19

Gideon

C3PO

Heroic Effort

Most of the list sticks close together, very tough to kill whilst has some very hard hitting attacks, ideally you pick up some early points then just deny the opponent any points from you. Will see how it works out.

Oh man...healing a tank like Chewie...nice.

I think your damage output will be limited, though. Sure, Leia and Chewie (esp with her BatLeadership) will be powerful and Obiwan cannot be ignored, but that's only 3 primary attackers in your squad. Those attacks will definitely hurt, but there are only 3 of them. It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.

I'd almost prefer Davith in this over Obiwan, he can dart out and attack twice which can be good against trooper lists, he's faster and with hide, is kind of harder to hit, especially if he can make it back to the group for Distracting and Chewie's Protector. A good mix of command cards like New Orders -Gideon, Bodyguard, Emergency Aid, Strength in Numbers, Stealth Tactics, Hit & Run, etc to keep the guys alive and keep them moving and doing damage. There are several maps that having a small number of guys means you really have to hustle to start killing the opponents figures so they don't rack up huge points in secondary objectives. I guess if you only play rotation maps, you could design strategies for each map.

That works buck but I think it's a different sort of list then, I've included obi because he's really tough to get through and a great matchup vs eStorms with evade plus black dice as well we being able to stop opponents controlling objectives/terminals.

I do generally just play on the maps in rotation though.

List has a very deliberate method of winning by grabbing a few points then sitting around surviving until time is called so something like davith that could give up 6 points easily is tough to stomach.

Having said that it would be a way to get Diplomatic mission in the list.

Anyway, we've gone slightly off topic sorry OP, but I do think most stuff can be made to work as long as you build around their strengths / cover weaknesses

It might not be top tier but I don't think anything is unplayable atm

Rich

Yea I'll likely add Jabba at least to try it when he comes out, I'm not sure he's as good, particularly with 3po adding an evade for those Nexu, but I think it's worth trying.

2) Jabba is very good. :-)