So with the Upsilon-class shuttle, the coordinate action is introduced to the standard play. Since the top pilot at PS 6 is Kylo Ren at 34pt it is safe to assume the generic "Starkiller somthing" is somewhere around 30-31 pt and the rest in between. If the point total allows it, you could fly 3 of these "bad boys", with one of them as Kylo Ren. Adding experimental interface to one generic/PTL (if slots and points allow), and PTL to Kylo.

Would this not allow you chain actions together using the coordinate action? The first (ps 2?) generic starts this chain by executing the coordinate action on another Upsilon, coordinating another to take the coordinate action etc. then using Experimental Interface/PTL to execute actions. THEN these 2 other ships move (with greens) and take yet another action..

Kind of the imperial version of attani mindlink, just without the stress negative ;-D

(This would be totally bonkers if you could set of coordinate multiple times pr ship, but sadly/thankfully multiple executions of the same action is not allowed).

You could, but they're likely to end up limited by the actions on their bars quite quickly. Once each has done a focus and a TL they can't do any more. Also points will probably prohibit more than two being run with any kind of useful loadout.

You could, but they're likely to end up limited by the actions on their bars quite quickly. Once each has done a focus and a TL they can't do any more. Also points will probably prohibit more than two being run with any kind of useful loadout.

Yes, as I said we need to see the points for each before making a final judgement on running 3, but running two there is certainly potential for adding upgrades (Expose anyone?). But even without, we are talking 3 ships each with 4 dice and with both focus and TL... not too bad IMHO.

Expose will not be worth taking still. It's worse as an action than focus or TL, so until you can take all 3...

I'd expect to be able to run 3 mostly naked or 2 well-decked-out, but my current list plan is Kylo/RAC.

Expose is bad because it takes your action and stops you modifying your dice, but if two shuttles are letting you TL and focus suddenly that's a powerful five dice attack.

What will make or break the upsilon is its dial.

Expose is bad because it takes your action and stops you modifying your dice, but if two shuttles are letting you TL and focus suddenly that's a powerful five dice attack.

What will make or break the upsilon is its dial.

...unless you have run out of actions to take, that was my reponse to the comment by "thespaceinvader", but, yes, Expose is bad

I guess the dial will be somewhere between the Slaver (YV-666) and the Ghost (VCX-100). If it had a Ghost-dial, I would by 3 in an instant, but not likely.

How many would you get if it had the Slaver dial?

Expose is bad because it takes your action and stops you modifying your dice, but if two shuttles are letting you TL and focus suddenly that's a powerful five dice attack.

What will make or break the upsilon is its dial.

...unless you have run out of actions to take, that was my reponse to the comment by "thespaceinvader", but, yes, Expose is bad

I guess the dial will be somewhere between the Slaver (YV-666) and the Ghost (VCX-100). If it had a Ghost-dial, I would by 3 in an instant, but not likely.

How many would you get if it had the Slaver dial?

If you're having all three shuttles pass their actions to a single shuttle with Expose, then... well, you end up with two shuttles with unmodified dice in order to get one with a 5 die primary and no defence dice.

It might be worth it, it might not, it's tough to know without trying it.

Expose is bad because it takes your action and stops you modifying your dice, but if two shuttles are letting you TL and focus suddenly that's a powerful five dice attack.

What will make or break the upsilon is its dial.

...unless you have run out of actions to take, that was my reponse to the comment by "thespaceinvader", but, yes, Expose is bad

I guess the dial will be somewhere between the Slaver (YV-666) and the Ghost (VCX-100). If it had a Ghost-dial, I would by 3 in an instant, but not likely.

How many would you get if it had the Slaver dial?

If you're having all three shuttles pass their actions to a single shuttle with Expose, then... well, you end up with two shuttles with unmodified dice in order to get one with a 5 die primary and no defence dice.

It might be worth it, it might not, it's tough to know without trying it.

Nope, the point was not "just" to pass the action along that would be pretty pointless ;-D My point was to use PTL/Experimental Interface to multiply actions along the way:

Ship 1. Starkiller... 30 pt

Ship 2. Lt. Dormits + PTL. 31+3 = 34 pt

Ship 3. Major... + Experimental Interface + Rage. 32+3+1 = 36

100pt total.

Ship 1. Moves and takes TL.

Ship 2. Moves and takes TL.

Ship 3. Moves and coordinates back to Ship 2 -> which Coordiantes to Ship 1 who takes a focus action. Ship 2 PTLs of the coordinate action to take a focus action (and gets a stress), Ship3 then uses EI to Rage and gets a focus and 3 dice reroll (ending up with 3 stress).

All 3 ships have focus and TL/"Rage reroll" (depending on the pilot costs and if/or they have elite pilot talents).

For Expose shenanigans this would be limited to 2 ships, but then you have the option to include advanced sensors and together with green maneouvers to remove the potential stress.

Nah, this would probably be to complicated/restrictive to build an imperial Dengaroo/Mindlink equivalent.... just use Palpatine and some aces ;-D

BUt... that doesn't multiply them much more than them just doing the action themselves would - one of the ships has to take a normal move and start the chain, which costs the inital action.

So with Co-ordinate you can do

Ship 1: move, co-ordinate ship 2

Ship 2: co-odinate ship 3, PTL Focus, green move, TL

Ship 3: co-ordinate ship 1 (focus), PTL focus, green move, TL

All this really gets you is no stress on the ships. because the co-ordinate actions are not really actions at all, they're just swapping your action for someone else's.

Instead, consider:

Ship 1: move, Focus

Ship 2: move, focus, PTL TL

Ship 3: Move, focus, PTL TL.

Same net set of actions, but two of the ships are stressed, and more of the actions can be removed by bumps.

I'm not saying it's bad, but it doesn't net increase the number of actions available to the list, it just enables you to concentrate them if you want. But when you're looking at ships which only have two actions each (on top of co-ordinate) on their bar before upgrades, there's little value to concentating those actions, because the instant a single ship's taken two actions, giving it further actions is a waste.

The better way to look at it would be to allow you to co-ordinate someone a Focus action who can still then take a TL and use VI or some other EPT that they might have taken PTL instead of, in order to allow them to get full mods and have higher PS. That's one of the two main uses I see, the other being the obvious 'give your ace advanced sensors' one that lets you co-ordinate Soontir at PS6, have him do two actions, do a green, then still get a third action at PS9.

BUt... that doesn't multiply them much more than them just doing the action themselves would - one of the ships has to take a normal move and start the chain, which costs the inital action.

So with Co-ordinate you can do

Ship 1: move, co-ordinate ship 2

Ship 2: co-odinate ship 3, PTL Focus, green move, TL

Ship 3: co-ordinate ship 1 (focus), PTL focus, green move, TL

All this really gets you is no stress on the ships. because the co-ordinate actions are not really actions at all, they're just swapping your action for someone else's.

Instead, consider:

Ship 1: move, Focus

Ship 2: move, focus, PTL TL

Ship 3: Move, focus, PTL TL.

Same net set of actions, but two of the ships are stressed, and more of the actions can be removed by bumps.

I'm not saying it's bad, but it doesn't net increase the number of actions available to the list, it just enables you to concentrate them if you want. But when you're looking at ships which only have two actions each (on top of co-ordinate) on their bar before upgrades, there's little value to concentating those actions, because the instant a single ship's taken two actions, giving it further actions is a waste.

The better way to look at it would be to allow you to co-ordinate someone a Focus action who can still then take a TL and use VI or some other EPT that they might have taken PTL instead of, in order to allow them to get full mods and have higher PS. That's one of the two main uses I see, the other being the obvious 'give your ace advanced sensors' one that lets you co-ordinate Soontir at PS6, have him do two actions, do a green, then still get a third action at PS9.

You are absolutely right, it is the same net set of actions. Thank you for taking your time contributing :-D

Sorry OP, as you can see from the spread there's no EPT on the next pilot down from Kylo.

There are a lot of things in the game, but what there's not is a series of named pilots with the lowest PS and the top PS having an EPT, while the middle named pilot is left out.

Sorry OP, as you can see from the spread there's no EPT on the next pilot down from Kylo.

There are a lot of things in the game, but what there's not is a series of named pilots with the lowest PS and the top PS having an EPT, while the middle named pilot is left out.

There are several ship with mid-PS pilots with no EPT that have lower PS pilots with them.

Just to name a few:

TIE Fighters

T-70 X-wings

TIE/fo Fighters

Khiraxz

Scyk

A-Wing

TIE Interceptor

Sorry OP, as you can see from the spread there's no EPT on the next pilot down from Kylo.

There are a lot of things in the game, but what there's not is a series of named pilots with the lowest PS and the top PS having an EPT, while the middle named pilot is left out.

There are several ship with mid-PS pilots with no EPT that have lower PS pilots with them.

Just to name a few:

TIE Fighters

T-70 X-wings

TIE/fo Fighters

Khiraxz

Scyk

A-Wing

TIE Interceptor

Lots of ships have generics with EPTs and named without EPTs.

No ships have a named EPT-bearer at lower PS than a named non-EPT-bearer.

What will make or break the upsilon is its dial.

It's probably safe to assume that it's dial is only going to be marginally better than the Lambda shuttle's (Since the Upsilon is essentially the Lambda's descendent just with some more offensive power). It's a shuttle, meant to take it's passengers from point A to point B and occasionally give some fighter support.

I wouldn't expect anything near the kinds of maneuvers the scum and rebel large ships can do because those ships are designed for pursuit and/or smuggling.

Sorry OP, as you can see from the spread there's no EPT on the next pilot down from Kylo.

There are a lot of things in the game, but what there's not is a series of named pilots with the lowest PS and the top PS having an EPT, while the middle named pilot is left out.

There are several ship with mid-PS pilots with no EPT that have lower PS pilots with them.

Just to name a few:

TIE Fighters

T-70 X-wings

TIE/fo Fighters

Khiraxz

Scyk

A-Wing

TIE Interceptor

Named pilots, my friend. Named.

Lots of ships have generics with EPTs and named without EPTs.

No ships have a named EPT-bearer at lower PS than a named non-EPT-bearer.

Zeta Ace - PS 5 with EPT.

Epsilon Leader - PS 6 with no EPT.

Expose will not be worth taking still. It's worse as an action than focus or TL, so until you can take all 3. ..

Hmm, you mean "until you do the very thing the OP is suggesting might be a possibility?"

Sorry OP, as you can see from the spread there's no EPT on the next pilot down from Kylo.

There are a lot of things in the game, but what there's not is a series of named pilots with the lowest PS and the top PS having an EPT, while the middle named pilot is left out.

There are several ship with mid-PS pilots with no EPT that have lower PS pilots with them.

Just to name a few:

TIE Fighters

T-70 X-wings

TIE/fo Fighters

Khiraxz

Scyk

A-Wing

TIE Interceptor

Named pilots, my friend. Named.

Lots of ships have generics with EPTs and named without EPTs.

No ships have a named EPT-bearer at lower PS than a named non-EPT-bearer.

Zeta Ace - PS 5 with EPT.

Epsilon Leader - PS 6 with no EPT.

Awing Greens at PS 3, Gemmer at 5 and Avrel at 6

May have misread it, hard time wrapping my head around the sequence.

The reverse is Ps 5 Gamma Squad vet. PS3 Deathfire (edited)

The real power of the coordinate action is that lower PS skill ships can do actions much later in the activation phase. Maybe boosting out of arc after a higher PS ship moves in range, or getting a target lock that was out of range earlier in the phase, activating a saboteur if the opportunity popped up. The reaction of lesser ships could screw up an aces carefully laid plans.

The real power of the coordinate action is that lower PS skill ships can do actions much later in the activation phase. Maybe boosting out of arc after a higher PS ship moves in range, or getting a target lock that was out of range earlier in the phase, activating a saboteur if the opportunity popped up. The reaction of lesser ships could screw up an aces carefully laid plans.

More the ability to use an action before you move. Honestly, my best use of coordinate is probably to barrel roll because my dumbass put an ace in front of a rock/bomb that he can't avoid.

Remember the **** thing has a systems slot. So you don't need to do a 'round robin' with co-ordinate to get focus/target lock on each - you can achieve this (at least after the first shot) with a Fire Control System, or (for the first shot) with Push The Limit and either Advanced Sensors or Electronic Baffle.

Equally, with a mix of Fleet Officer and Systems Officer, you can probably manage everyone having target lock/focus just fine; one shuttle contributes a free target lock, the other a free focus (using baffle or advanced sensors to handle the stress) and the third ship is free to use its own action on expose for a 5-dice target lock/focused shot.

Equally, with crew and ept slots, you can make a shuttle with largely action-free dice modification; a combination of Predator and Agent Kallus, for example, gives you a partial target lock and partial focus against your target of choice which keeps working even during red moves - not an irrelevant consideration if the dial is lambda-esque.

Remember the **** thing has a systems slot. So you don't need to do a 'round robin' with co-ordinate to get focus/target lock on each - you can achieve this (at least after the first shot) with a Fire Control System, or (for the first shot) with Push The Limit and either Advanced Sensors or Electronic Baffle.

Equally, with a mix of Fleet Officer and Systems Officer, you can probably manage everyone having target lock/focus just fine; one shuttle contributes a free target lock, the other a free focus (using baffle or advanced sensors to handle the stress) and the third ship is free to use its own action on expose for a 5-dice target lock/focused shot.

Equally, with crew and ept slots, you can make a shuttle with largely action-free dice modification; a combination of Predator and Agent Kallus, for example, gives you a partial target lock and partial focus against your target of choice which keeps working even during red moves - not an irrelevant consideration if the dial is lambda-esque.

Good point! I was also just playing around with the idea of chained co-ordinate actions, cause I thought it was new and cool, and wanted to see how far I could take it with the help of the forum. Thanks again all.

Just a final question: PTL is that once per round? I know it only triggers once so you cannot trigger PTL/Experimental Interface back and forth, but say you do the following:

Ship 1: Starkiller...

Ship 2: Kylo Ren + PTL + Engine Upgrade.

Ship 1 moves and co-ordinates Ship 2 to take a Focus action, Ship 2 PTLs to co-ordinate back to Ship 1 to take a Focus action.

Ship 2 performs a green maneouver, clears the stress, Boosts and PTLs to Target Lock.

End result:

Ship 1 Focus. (1 action, no stress)

Ship 2 Focus+Target lock + Boost (3 actions, 1 stress).

Cause if this is possible, then I actually achieved the chained co-ordinate multiplicative action effect!!! This could not be done without co-ordinate.

You can only push the limit once per round, sadly.

It's not normally an issue, because most 'free action' abilities come with stress (which shuts down future actions), but they did put a once-per-round limit in anyway.

The big advantage of co-ordinate over.....most things...is handing out free actions to ships which otherwise couldn't get them. Coordinate is range 1-2 (unlike squad leader, which is only range 1), and can hand out the full range of the target's actions (unlike fleet officer, who can only pass focus tokens).

It pairs particularly well (appropriately, and probably intentionally!) with the TIE/fo aces - both Omega Leader and Omega Ace really want to get a target lock for their first pass, but (being just TIE fighters with a shield token when all's said and done) want to do so without using their action - leaving them with unmodified and fickle green dice. Co-ordinate fills that gap nicely - especially since the shuttle can potentially set itself up not to need its own action.

Multiple shuttles will be......I dunno. They might be lethal, or might be rubbish. It will largely depend on their dial - there are three four-dice-primary/cannon forward-arc-only large ships in the game right now (Lambda, Ghost, Aggressor) and their respective dials are a big part of how effective they are.

The fact that you'd probably be stuck with three, possibly even two ships if you wanted a squad purely of the big black bat, means having the manouvrability to point that arc the right way is critical.

You can only push the limit once per round, sadly.

It's not normally an issue, because most 'free action' abilities come with stress (which shuts down future actions), but they did put a once-per-round limit in anyway.

The big advantage of co-ordinate over.....most things...is handing out free actions to ships which otherwise couldn't get them. Coordinate is range 1-2 (unlike squad leader, which is only range 1), and can hand out the full range of the target's actions (unlike fleet officer, who can only pass focus tokens).

It pairs particularly well (appropriately, and probably intentionally!) with the TIE/fo aces - both Omega Leader and Omega Ace really want to get a target lock for their first pass, but (being just TIE fighters with a shield token when all's said and done) want to do so without using their action - leaving them with unmodified and fickle green dice. Co-ordinate fills that gap nicely - especially since the shuttle can potentially set itself up not to need its own action.

Multiple shuttles will be......I dunno. They might be lethal, or might be rubbish. It will largely depend on their dial - there are three four-dice-primary/cannon forward-arc-only large ships in the game right now (Lambda, Ghost, Aggressor) and their respective dials are a big part of how effective they are.

The fact that you'd probably be stuck with three, possibly even two ships if you wanted a squad purely of the big black bat, means having the manouvrability to point that arc the right way is critical.

****, so PTL IS once pr round...so much for that idea. Anyways, thank you for your quick reply!