Unless I'm wrong, in which case dras will let me know very soon, every upgrade card that refers to your attack pool is referring to your dice after your initial armament roll. When a card is discussing pre roll it refers to your armament not your attack pool. Therefore by this inference believe Sato based on his wording will be after the initial roll.

I understand that the attack pool per the rulebook is before and after but I can't think of an upgrade card that refers to it in this way. Also I understand that Sato says to remove dice, however I don't think this has any bearing on my definition. Just my ten cents on the topic my two cents are free.

The only part that Dras will comment on is the fact that this should be appended to the discussion in question, in the rules Forum.

Not a new post on the front page, where all it will do is restart the entire discussion again, with no recourse or reference to the points that have already been gone over.

You're right.... To late now though!

Also love the third person talk

...veni, vidi, vici...

Replace is undefined.

It is either:

Add & Remove

or

Increase & Reduce

We dont know which, and have no way of knowing which.

What you guys don't realize is that it literally means replace. Everytime you use his ability, you need to take two dice out, throw them away, and put in two brand new dice from a previously unopened pack.

If you use the dice app...well, you better have a whole lot of phones in your house.

Unless I'm wrong, in which case dras will let me know very soon, every upgrade card that refers to your attack pool is referring to your dice after your initial armament roll. When a card is discussing pre roll it refers to your armament not your attack pool. Therefore by this inference believe Sato based on his wording will be after the initial roll.

I understand that the attack pool per the rulebook is before and after but I can't think of an upgrade card that refers to it in this way. Also I understand that Sato says to remove dice, however I don't think this has any bearing on my definition. Just my ten cents on the topic my two cents are free.

You're wrong, and I don't actually see how this is up for discussion. First, the logic that this new and undefined keyword must mean one thing because there's no precedent for it working differently is erroneous, because it's a new and undefined keyword. It could literally mean anything FFG wants it to mean.

However, the same article that spoiled Sato spoiled Dual Turbolaser Turrets, which allow you to swap out dice in your attack pool for red ones...by adding the red dice, and then removing a die. Clearly, this works fine within the rules as written, and is exactly how you word an ability that swaps out dice after you've rolled. If they intended for Sato to allow you to add two dice of any colour, and then remove two dice from the pool, that's the language they would use. No need for any ambiguous, newly defined rules terms. The same phrasing is on another card in the same wave!

Ergo, Sato's ability works in a way that the rules have not yet covered, which is exactly why he's using a new term currently undefined in the rules. It seems overwhelmingly likely that the way it will work will be to swap out two dice before you roll; but I can guarantee that he will not be adding two dice to your pool, and then having you remove two dice. Because otherwise he would just say that, exactly like the other upgrade card that does exactly that.

Unless I'm wrong, in which case dras will let me know very soon, every upgrade card that refers to your attack pool is referring to your dice after your initial armament roll. When a card is discussing pre roll it refers to your armament not your attack pool. Therefore by this inference believe Sato based on his wording will be after the initial roll.

I understand that the attack pool per the rulebook is before and after but I can't think of an upgrade card that refers to it in this way. Also I understand that Sato says to remove dice, however I don't think this has any bearing on my definition. Just my ten cents on the topic my two cents are free.

Unless I'm missing something, you are using "armament" and "pool" wrong.

"Battery Armament," or "Battery" or "Armament," is what is written on your ship card. If you increase Battery, such as with Enhanced Armament, then you pretend there are two more red dice pictured.

"Attack Pool" is the dice you are holding in your hand. If you're at medium range, your Battery may include black dice, but your Pool does not.

As for before or after the roll..... Well, I'm pretty sure they *intend* for you to do this before rolling, but I can see your thinking that it can be done after.

I would argue Darth Vader: Darth Vader allows a "reroll" of dice in an attack pool. Obviously, that must be after the initial roll. I would argue, therefor, that "replace," while it is not strictly spelled out, would be done before the roll.

Rule Refrence, page 2: "During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack. This includes the dice gathered prior to rolling as well as the dice after they are rolled."

But only if they are brand new dice from a brand new package, or you have to do three naked laps around the store while pouring baby oil down your back and screaming "Die, horse! Die!" Upon completion of which you may set one die to a face with a hit icon.

But only if they are brand new dice from a brand new package, or you have to do three naked laps around the store while pouring baby oil down your back and screaming "Die, horse! Die!" Upon completion of which you may set one die to a face with a hit icon.

Anything to get damage from a red die.

Not sure this card is as good as people seem to think.

for this card to work you have to be in range of the die you are replacing since this affect would happen after the assemble die pool step.

example: this card will not let a CR90 Corvette B hit you at long(red) range but would allow you to replace 2 of the blue dice with red at med(Blue) range.

that said this seem to be more geared towards combs with upgrade cards then any thing else

so this card is highly situational, and i dont think is worth the 32 point cost to field him.

but thats just my two cents

Not sure this card is as good as people seem to think.

for this card to work you have to be in range of the die you are replacing since this affect would happen after the assemble die pool step.

example: this card will not let a CR90 Corvette B hit you at long(red) range but would allow you to replace 2 of the blue dice with red at med(Blue) range.

that said this seem to be more geared towards combs with upgrade cards then any thing else

so this card is highly situational, and i dont think is worth the 32 point cost to field him.

but thats just my two cents

I'm not sure if this has been discussed to death elsewhere, but it seems to allow you to replace any dice you have within range with dice of any other color. Wouldn't you be able to swap 2 of your AFBs 3 red dice with 2 black dice as long as that squadron is in range 1?

Not sure this card is as good as people seem to think.

for this card to work you have to be in range of the die you are replacing since this affect would happen after the assemble die pool step.

example: this card will not let a CR90 Corvette B hit you at long(red) range but would allow you to replace 2 of the blue dice with red at med(Blue) range.

that said this seem to be more geared towards combs with upgrade cards then any thing else

so this card is highly situational, and i dont think is worth the 32 point cost to field him.

but thats just my two cents

I'm not sure if this has been discussed to death elsewhere, but it seems to allow you to replace any dice you have within range with dice of any other color. Wouldn't you be able to swap 2 of your AFBs 3 red dice with 2 black dice as long as that squadron is in range 1?

I was responding more to the people talking about adding red dices on this and the fact that there has to be dice in the pool in the first place to be replaced.

I'm not sure if what you are suggesting in legal in the RAW.

I believe every other card that allows you to use die outside there normal range states that you can on the card.

so I would say no, but I'm not a Dav so don't take that as gospel.

Yep, like I said...

Just Rehashing Arguments that have Already been Made... With a lot of people stating their definitive answer, when obviously, by the fact there is a counter arguments existing with identical fervor, means we need FFG to answer eventually...

We will not need an Answer for at least the next 8 weeks... And we won't get an answer for at least 4 Weeks after that.

So please, can we just leave this here - and potentially pick it up where it is being argued, with some new arguments?

Tirion why are you wasting everyones time with a question that will never be agreed on. Yet, 100% will be cleared up by FFG at the appropriate time. Enjoy wave 3&4 ya turd burgler.

Just my 2 cents, I believe the card works by allowing you to remove up to 2 dice after the inital roll, and replace then with dice of any colour. This is simply based on the following;

1. The interpretation that you choose the new colours before rolling any dice would make the ability rather poor. All the dice are fairly balanced for expected damage output; with 8 damage on the black, 6 damage and 2 acc on the blue and 6 damage and 1 acc on the red. For example, changing 2 red dice from your pool to 2 black instead increases the expected damage by only 0.5 at the cost of 0.25 acc, which is pathetic. The only value for such a rule is in activating crit effects at long range, which isn't overly impressive.

2. The other interpretation where this acts like dual tubolasers is simply too good (i.e have 4 dice rolled and choose the best 2), not to mention the wording being different to that card.

3. It would be comparable to Vader as I have interpreted it, essentially being a fancier attack dice reroll ability that the rebels don't have yet.

Just my 2 cents, I believe the card works by allowing you to remove up to 2 dice after the inital roll, and replace then with dice of any colour. This is simply based on the following;

1. The interpretation that you choose the new colours before rolling any dice would make the ability rather poor. All the dice are fairly balanced for expected damage output; with 8 damage on the black, 6 damage and 2 acc on the blue and 6 damage and 1 acc on the red. For example, changing 2 red dice from your pool to 2 black instead increases the expected damage by only 0.5 at the cost of 0.25 acc, which is pathetic. The only value for such a rule is in activating crit effects at long range, which isn't overly impressive.

2. The other interpretation where this acts like dual tubolasers is simply too good (i.e have 4 dice rolled and choose the best 2), not to mention the wording being different to that card.

3. It would be comparable to Vader as I have interpreted it, essentially being a fancier attack dice reroll ability that the rebels don't have yet.

As Dras stated, this has all been discussed elsewhere, and we already have wording to swap dice around after rolling your pool, and yet they put new wording on this card.

1 No it would not make it rather poor, it allows you to trigger Ordnance Upgrade cards at long range, 30.3cm away instead of 11.7cm

2 if it does not work before the pool is rolled, then this is exactly how it will work.

3 Vader makes you spend Defense Tokens to reroll attack dice, he does not in any shape or form allow you to add black dice to long range fire.

Just my 2 cents, I believe the card works by allowing you to remove up to 2 dice after the inital roll, and replace then with dice of any colour. This is simply based on the following;

1. The interpretation that you choose the new colours before rolling any dice would make the ability rather poor. All the dice are fairly balanced for expected damage output; with 8 damage on the black, 6 damage and 2 acc on the blue and 6 damage and 1 acc on the red. For example, changing 2 red dice from your pool to 2 black instead increases the expected damage by only 0.5 at the cost of 0.25 acc, which is pathetic. The only value for such a rule is in activating crit effects at long range, which isn't overly impressive.

2. The other interpretation where this acts like dual tubolasers is simply too good (i.e have 4 dice rolled and choose the best 2), not to mention the wording being different to that card.

3. It would be comparable to Vader as I have interpreted it, essentially being a fancier attack dice reroll ability that the rebels don't have yet.

As Dras stated, this has all been discussed elsewhere, and we already have wording to swap dice around after rolling your pool, and yet they put new wording on this card.

1 No it would not make it rather poor, it allows you to trigger Ordnance Upgrade cards at long range, 30.3cm away instead of 11.7cm

2 if it does not work before the pool is rolled, then this is exactly how it will work.

3 Vader makes you spend Defense Tokens to reroll attack dice, he does not in any shape or form allow you to add black dice to long range fire.

I'll elaborate;

1. Rolling 2 back dice at long rang for a 43.75% chance of activating a black crit effect is nice, but only benifits a small number of ships and builds. I doubt a commander's ability would soley be focused around this. Plus while you fire at long range, your actual black armament is doing nothing. Lastly you need a squadren to get into range 1 while you are sitting happily at 30.3cm away.

2. The dual turbolaser card sound like you roll X+1 dice and choose the best X dice. That is not what I think this ability will be.

I think once a Sato dice is rolled, that is the dice you get, no backsies to the removed dice. You can of course continue to modify the Sato dice if you can via other means

3. Comparing Vader to Sato illustrating their similarity. No where did I say that Vader could fire black dice at long range;

Vader lets you choose any number of dice to reroll (pro), but they are rerolled the same colour (con) and he spends a defense token (limitation)

Sato (by my assumption) lets you reroll only 2 dice (con), buy may change their colour (pro) and he needs a squadron nearby (limitation)

Not sure this card is as good as people seem to think.

for this card to work you have to be in range of the die you are replacing since this affect would happen after the assemble die pool step.

example: this card will not let a CR90 Corvette B hit you at long(red) range but would allow you to replace 2 of the blue dice with red at med(Blue) range.

that said this seem to be more geared towards combs with upgrade cards then any thing else

so this card is highly situational, and i dont think is worth the 32 point cost to field him.

but thats just my two cents

I'm not sure if this has been discussed to death elsewhere, but it seems to allow you to replace any dice you have within range with dice of any other color. Wouldn't you be able to swap 2 of your AFBs 3 red dice with 2 black dice as long as that squadron is in range 1?

I was responding more to the people talking about adding red dices on this and the fact that there has to be dice in the pool in the first place to be replaced.

I'm not sure if what you are suggesting in legal in the RAW.

I believe every other card that allows you to use die outside there normal range states that you can on the card.

so I would say no, but I'm not a Dav so don't take that as gospel.

My understanding is that once dice are in the Pool, not the Battery, they have no range. So, a ship with only black dice wouldn't have any pool at long range, but a ship with red dice could drop two of them to gain two black dice.

I wish we had moderators.

I wish people would accept the crushing futility of their own inevitability...

... But I think we know which we'll get first, Mad...

Sharks with lasers on their heads?

Unless I'm wrong, in which case dras will let me know very soon, every upgrade card that refers to your attack pool is referring to your dice after your initial armament roll. When a card is discussing pre roll it refers to your armament not your attack pool. Therefore by this inference believe Sato based on his wording will be after the initial roll.

I understand that the attack pool per the rulebook is before and after but I can't think of an upgrade card that refers to it in this way. Also I understand that Sato says to remove dice, however I don't think this has any bearing on my definition. Just my ten cents on the topic my two cents are free.

Unless I'm missing something, you are using "armament" and "pool" wrong.

"Battery Armament," or "Battery" or "Armament," is what is written on your ship card. If you increase Battery, such as with Enhanced Armament, then you pretend there are two more red dice pictured.

"Attack Pool" is the dice you are holding in your hand. If you're at medium range, your Battery may include black dice, but your Pool does not.

As for before or after the roll..... Well, I'm pretty sure they *intend* for you to do this before rolling, but I can see your thinking that it can be done after.

I would argue Darth Vader: Darth Vader allows a "reroll" of dice in an attack pool. Obviously, that must be after the initial roll. I would argue, therefor, that "replace," while it is not strictly spelled out, would be done before the roll.

Rule Refrence, page 2: "During an attack, the attack pool is comprised of all dice being used for that attack. This includes the dice gathered prior to rolling as well as the dice after they are rolled."

The armament dice are the only dice you gather for your initial roll per the rule book. Anything added to your pool is modification and therefore must take place after your initial roll, again per the rule book. This is why EA is added pre roll and slaved turrets after.

I was using them just fine.

Not sure this card is as good as people seem to think.

for this card to work you have to be in range of the die you are replacing since this affect would happen after the assemble die pool step.

example: this card will not let a CR90 Corvette B hit you at long(red) range but would allow you to replace 2 of the blue dice with red at med(Blue) range.

that said this seem to be more geared towards combs with upgrade cards then any thing else

so this card is highly situational, and i dont think is worth the 32 point cost to field him.

but thats just my two cents

I'm not sure if this has been discussed to death elsewhere, but it seems to allow you to replace any dice you have within range with dice of any other color. Wouldn't you be able to swap 2 of your AFBs 3 red dice with 2 black dice as long as that squadron is in range 1?

I was responding more to the people talking about adding red dices on this and the fact that there has to be dice in the pool in the first place to be replaced.

I'm not sure if what you are suggesting in legal in the RAW.

I believe every other card that allows you to use die outside there normal range states that you can on the card.

so I would say no, but I'm not a Dav so don't take that as gospel.

My understanding is that once dice are in the Pool, not the Battery, they have no range. So, a ship with only black dice wouldn't have any pool at long range, but a ship with red dice could drop two of them to gain two black dice.

The only restriction I was making that everyone is ignoring is that every upgrade card that uses the term pool is referring to after the roll, and by that distinction I believe Sato is after. If it was before I think it would use armament. I'm not a zealot for this though I would have no issue of FFG said it was the opposite. Just starting what the trend has been.

Am I the only one here just thinking how I will enjoy putting Spinal Turrets on an MC30 with APT's while using Sato. . . .

Am I the only one here just thinking how I will enjoy putting Spinal Turrets on an MC30 with APT's while using Sato. . . .

Nope, I've been listing that out as well.