Scyk is an interceptor. what is it supposed to intercept? Lambdas and HWKs?

well the dial isn't bad (it's an older model interceptor; not like those fancy A-wings/interceptors/FOs/pfighters etc)

the ship profile for cost is shite, but that's another issue entirely

It amuses me how much hate people bear for the JM5k.

especially in a game where every PWT has a godly dial.

And yet only one of them has a white sloop... and has an undercosted generic with an EPT... and is scum so that it has access to the games best cards... and has 2 torpedo slots... and... well you get the idea

The dial to the left is amazing, fair enough, it's supposed to be the good side of an asymmetrical dial. But the dial to the right is also pretty dang good, only causing a problem when you're stressed (or not at all if you're Dengaroo...). I was actually excited by the concept of an asymmetrical dial when it was first announced. But in practice it's both not asymmetrical enough and attached to a platform that's entirely too good.

Falcon now will have access to 3-white sloops (hello kanan!) Dash has all-green all-speed maneuvers.

Make it even a couple points costier and it doesn't work, take EPT away and it is flushed down the drain with all the ordnance alltogether, making it another "outer rim dung"

had it a missile and a torp people would have squealed even harder, mind you. and without a torp-munition slot, FFGs failure at ordnance design is still there.

Games best cards? Like what? Dengar who doesn't fit? R droid that no longer works? fett who only scares other Uboats? Zuckuss who makes you forget the idea of having actions? Oh, yeah, 4-lom, at least something good!

It's asymmetrical enough. It's just PWT-good. and all PWTs have great dials. Can't say PWTs are in a good spot right now and need any nerf whatsover. In a world of Autohumpers, ordnacne fests, Crackswarms and Defender walls.

Nerf is a bad thing, always. It's the underdogs we must help.

Last I checked both the Falcon title that allows sloops and the Outrider title that makes the YT-2400 worth using are both unique which prevents you from spamming them (not to mention neither ship comes in a playable state for 33pts). As is the Kannan crew card. That's a significantly different situation than Contracted Scout.

Making it a few points more and preventing 3 of them is exactly the point. So calling that out as a negative is well... missing the point.

How about overclocked R4 who replaced the agromech seamlessly (and is better on Dengaroo)? Also Zuckuss, other than maybe Palps (maybe), is easily the best crew card in the game by a very wide margin. Not getting an action for a few turns after you've fired off your torp is a small price to pay for often wiping a ship off the board with a single shot. That's also discounting Dengaroo which while not 33pt U-boats leverage (abuse) the J5k and scum crew extensively

An amazing dial one way would be fine if the other side was toned down by an equal measure. But that's not that case here, it's PWT good on one side PLUS a red sloop and then flat out bonkers amazing on the other. Also love how you call out ordinance fests as what's holding PWTs back given that U-boats are the definitive ordinance list. Not to mention frankly U-boats aren't really PWTs, at least not first and foremost. The generics are torpedo boats and Dengar is a brawler who wants to get you in arc so that he can win by sheer volume of dice and modifiers. Besides the other large base PWTs tend to have decent dials not specifically because they're PWTs but because they are expensive, they take up a significant portion of your list and having 1/2 your list stressed or on a rock matters quite a bit. J5ks on the other hand are cheap and spammable, they don't deserve an amazing dial any more than the Punisher or K-wing who (shocker I know) don't have amazing dials.

Only buffing things is the definition of powercreep. And while I'm certainly not opposed to giving ships like the Starviper or Punisher a bit of a helping hand that doesn't mean that other ships aren't also grossly imbalanced the other way. The thing is that if even one of the things I mentioned weren't true then the J5k would likely be a fairly balanced ship. If it cost a few more, or had a slightly worse dial on the left, or only had one torp slot, or didn't have both a crew and astromech slot, or a multitude of other things then it'd be in a better state when compared to other ships in the game. It's the combination of each of those things, each one having a multiplicative effect on the other, that make it too good.

Scyk is an interceptor. what is it supposed to intercept? Lambdas and HWKs?

well the dial isn't bad (it's an older model interceptor; not like those fancy A-wings/interceptors/FOs/pfighters etc)

the ship profile for cost is shite, but that's another issue entirely

A 13 pt PS 1 Scyk as well as a PS 3/4 with an EPT would be welcome. And green 2 hard turns would be nice.

And boost.

B-wing: 3 banks white, add 3 hard, as a red, maybe give it either a 3 or 4 k-turn.

It amuses me how much hate people bear for the JM5k.

especially in a game where every PWT has a godly dial.

And yet only one of them has a white sloop... and has an undercosted generic with an EPT... and is scum so that it has access to the games best cards... and has 2 torpedo slots... and... well you get the idea

The dial to the left is amazing, fair enough, it's supposed to be the good side of an asymmetrical dial. But the dial to the right is also pretty dang good, only causing a problem when you're stressed (or not at all if you're Dengaroo...). I was actually excited by the concept of an asymmetrical dial when it was first announced. But in practice it's both not asymmetrical enough and attached to a platform that's entirely too good.

Falcon now will have access to 3-white sloops (hello kanan!) Dash has all-green all-speed maneuvers.

Make it even a couple points costier and it doesn't work, take EPT away and it is flushed down the drain with all the ordnance alltogether, making it another "outer rim dung"

had it a missile and a torp people would have squealed even harder, mind you. and without a torp-munition slot, FFGs failure at ordnance design is still there.

Games best cards? Like what? Dengar who doesn't fit? R droid that no longer works? fett who only scares other Uboats? Zuckuss who makes you forget the idea of having actions? Oh, yeah, 4-lom, at least something good!

It's asymmetrical enough. It's just PWT-good. and all PWTs have great dials. Can't say PWTs are in a good spot right now and need any nerf whatsover. In a world of Autohumpers, ordnacne fests, Crackswarms and Defender walls.

Nerf is a bad thing, always. It's the underdogs we must help.

Last I checked both the Falcon title that allows sloops and the Outrider title that makes the YT-2400 worth using are both unique which prevents you from spamming them (not to mention neither ship comes in a playable state for 33pts). As is the Kannan crew card. That's a significantly different situation than Contracted Scout.

Making it a few points more and preventing 3 of them is exactly the point. So calling that out as a negative is well... missing the point.

How about overclocked R4 who replaced the agromech seamlessly (and is better on Dengaroo)? Also Zuckuss, other than maybe Palps (maybe), is easily the best crew card in the game by a very wide margin. Not getting an action for a few turns after you've fired off your torp is a small price to pay for often wiping a ship off the board with a single shot. That's also discounting Dengaroo which while not 33pt U-boats leverage (abuse) the J5k and scum crew extensively

An amazing dial one way would be fine if the other side was toned down by an equal measure. But that's not that case here, it's PWT good on one side PLUS a red sloop and then flat out bonkers amazing on the other. Also love how you call out ordinance fests as what's holding PWTs back given that U-boats are the definitive ordinance list. Not to mention frankly U-boats aren't really PWTs, at least not first and foremost. The generics are torpedo boats and Dengar is a brawler who wants to get you in arc so that he can win by sheer volume of dice and modifiers. Besides the other large base PWTs tend to have decent dials not specifically because they're PWTs but because they are expensive, they take up a significant portion of your list and having 1/2 your list stressed or on a rock matters quite a bit. J5ks on the other hand are cheap and spammable, they don't deserve an amazing dial any more than the Punisher or K-wing who (shocker I know) don't have amazing dials.

Only buffing things is the definition of powercreep. And while I'm certainly not opposed to giving ships like the Starviper or Punisher a bit of a helping hand that doesn't mean that other ships aren't also grossly imbalanced the other way. The thing is that if even one of the things I mentioned weren't true then the J5k would likely be a fairly balanced ship. If it cost a few more, or had a slightly worse dial on the left, or only had one torp slot, or didn't have both a crew and astromech slot, or a multitude of other things then it'd be in a better state when compared to other ships in the game. It's the combination of each of those things, each one having a multiplicative effect on the other, that make it too good.

Go ahead, punch things with 2-attack primary for 33 points. I dare you.

Scout is either a torp boat or a torp boat. It can't run in circles, roll around and shoot things out of it's butt, because chances of damaging anything with that 2 attack is non-existent.

Seamlessly? You mean like stressing you, focus token that won't stay when not used, making it impossible to make 2 rounds after the initial closing?

Dengaroo is a specific list, like YT 3700 but with significantly lower damage output but greater PS PWT.

Zuckus, aka "the one dude that makes sure you're not taking actions ever again" is suited for YV, not JM, and wouldn't have been needed if there weren't that many 3+ evade arseholes.

Uboat isn't, JM5k can be a PWT. Most PWTs get great dials simply because they are large base ships and that's a HUGE DRAWBACK. They can't slowroll, are prone to obstruction and as such require a greater variety of move options not to be a sitting duck, that's all. Uboat isn't cheap, because you have to buy the torps and everything that comes together with it, otherwise it's ORS-level useless. Okay, you forgo all the upgrades and take four.

Not killing ANYTHING in the current meta.

And please, go tell Dengar how he's cheap, spammable and not allowed to have a dial Han-level good.

That's powercreep only if you attempt comparing it to ORS or Punishers. That are down-the-sink-level of useless.

Always compare ships to adequate power level, not dung-pile failures.

1.) The rules would be changed so that a ship can't be at range 1 of itself. This way Kanan doesn't give a Falcon or 2400 an entirely green dial for 3 points with no effort involved. The game needs more synergy that requires multiple ships, and less hyper efficient self-contained crap.

2.) Falcon and 2400 dials would be less stupid. No hard 1 turns on either of them.

3.) Firespray should get 2 bank greens and 3 straight green in addition to its T-65 greens.

Dials I would Change:

Scum:

Jm5K - remove the red sloop, turn the old white sloop red. Remove the 4 straight. 1 & 2 turns right become red. 1 Straight becomes white.
YV-666 - remove 4 straight. 3 Straight become white, 3 turns become red.
Aggressor - 3 Banks become white. *
Lancer Class - Remove 4 & 5 Straights. 2 Turns become red.
FS-31 - remove 4 straight.

Galactic Empire:

FS-31 - remove 4 Straight.
Lambda Shuttle - no change.
VT-49 - Remove 4 straight. 2 & 3 turns become red.

Rebel Alliance:

VCX-100 - remove 4 straight.
YT-1300 - 1 turns become red. **
YT-2400 - remove 4 straight. 3 & 2 turns become red.

* This ships is the first example of the gaming needing a medium (6cm) base. [A perfect size base for ARC-170s, K-wings, Punishers, G1-As... etc)

** Yes, this is the ONLY large based ship I think should have a 4 straight... then again, I'd also add some text to Engine Upgrade such as "Small Ship Only". Because I think it is flat out stupid that freighters out pace super fast assault craft like A-wings and TIE/INs. It is also stupid how many large based ships have better dials than fighters. There are so few red maneuvers on Freighters and Patrol Ships that it is just... bonkers / stupid / some other derogatory term implying a lack of mental prowess.

A Lancer Pursuit Craft w/ EU can move 10 base lengths straight ahead on turn one. It moves roughly 40cm from its starting position turn 1... the board is only 90cm across. With its starting position of at least 8cm up (large base size), the ship is 48cm across the board... over half way. This is crazy. An A-wing's best straight speed is only 8 base-lengths from its starting position... or 32cm. The Lancer out paces an A-wing by 2 full large bases.
That is... really short-bus special. Seriously. (On that note, I can't wait to play 2 Lancers and go crazy).

I say it is time for new Errata - add "Small Ship Only" to EU. Easy fix. Slow those freighters down.



Oh yeah... I didn't bother to look at small ships... those could use some tweaking... but these large based ships are the ones that really need the fixin' hammer.

Thread summarized in a single picture

Thread summarized in a single picture

I don't normally agree with you, but yes. It's like large base ships threw these peoples pregnant wives down a stair case while cheering. It's the only reason I can see for the hate. Large ships have never been an issue for me personally, or anyone in my meta. Nor do we care that they move farther. They usually cost most of your list, and if your list was just sitting still most of the game, it's just going to die.

Large ships killed my father, and raped my mother.

Thread summarized in a single picture

I don't normally agree with you, but yes. It's like large base ships threw these peoples pregnant wives down a stair case while cheering. It's the only reason I can see for the hate. Large ships have never been an issue for me personally, or anyone in my meta. Nor do we care that they move farther. They usually cost most of your list, and if your list was just sitting still most of the game, it's just going to die.

well, Han is known for jettisoning cargo at the first sight of an imperial patrol...

that cargo might've been someone's pregnant wife