Fairly fruitless wishing, but I'd like the B-Wing to have the red hard 1 improved to white, with added red 3 hards and a 3k.

If only because I'm pretty bad at flying them.

Built in TIE Mk II for the Defender, change the 2 hard turn for the Bomber from red to white and make the 3 hard red, everybody echoed word for word my thoughts about fast movements on large base ships, but I'd go a step further and completely remove 1 hard turns from large ships.

White 1 hard turn and green 1 forward for TIE Adv. white 2 hard turn for lambda and red 3 hard turn, change the 1 speed maneuvers on the decimator to green, and if we can't remove 1 hard turns from large ships, give the Firespray white 1 hards.

I play Imperial, so I have no clue about the Rebel ships, other than maybe giving the X wings a red 1 hard turn.

First off, I do understand that many dials are just a victim of the waves they were realeased in. As the game progresses, many of the older ships continue to look quite unimpressive.

X-Wing: I'd give it a 3 T-Roll, maybe a green 3-straight or green 2-banks

B-Wing: 2-Talon Turns

HWK: white 1-turns and red 3-turns, the thing still has no turning option

Decimator: replace 4-straight with red 0

Lambda: although the dial is very fitting, the shuttle just can't turn its fat ass around. Therefore, once you eliminate its companions, it's game over.

TIE Advanced: for its cost? All green 2's or a white 1-hard

TIE Fighter: 2 S-Loops

Scyk: 1-green turns + 3 S-Loops

Kihraxz: white 1-straight

YV-666: remove the 4

Jumpmaster: just tone its greens down a little bit.

That's about it.

What has really been bugging me lately though is how the Lancer Pursuit Craft has a 5 straight and the Millennium Falcon only has a 4. So much for the MF being the fastest ship (even though the majority of large base ships in the game have the same maneuver speed too). I feel that this is a huge oversight both fluff-wise and to a lesser extent design wise. The dial on the lancer is too wide open in general.

I am guessing MF stands for Millennium Falcon and not what I first thought.

None, is a second version where you have re buy your ships what you really want?

I guess everyone hates all large ships here... I mean, given that they're clearly so prevalent in the meta they must all be OP. Those YTs and Decimators, gotta nerf 'em!

If it ruins your immersion that large ships go quickly, consider that if we compare them to the TIE defender, the D should have every single move green, 3,4,5 K turns, 3 sloops & t-rolls, TIE/D and TIE/x7 titles built in, multiple torpedoes built in, etc...

It's a game, and gameplay > immersion if you want a balanced game. You also pay for those dials because a large ship that will make use of its dial is going to cost you 40-60 points, depending on how its kitted.

The JM5K is another issue, and not fixed by nerfing all large ships.

I am guessing MF stands for Millennium Falcon and not what I first thought.

If it's Fat Han, I'd suspect the two interpretations are synonymous.

I guess everyone hates all large ships here... I mean, given that they're clearly so prevalent in the meta they must all be OP. Those YTs and Decimators, gotta nerf 'em!

If it ruins your immersion that large ships go quickly, consider that if we compare them to the TIE defender, the D should have every single move green, 3,4,5 K turns, 3 sloops & t-rolls, TIE/D and TIE/x7 titles built in, multiple torpedoes built in, etc...

It's a game, and gameplay > immersion if you want a balanced game. You also pay for those dials because a large ship that will make use of its dial is going to cost you 40-60 points, depending on how its kitted.

The JM5K is another issue, and not fixed by nerfing all large ships.

I think you have completely missed what people are saying about large ships. People like large ships. I love the Firespray, but when a ship that is essentially a modified freighter is faster and dodgier than a craft specifically designed for speed and combat, there lies the issue. A large base moving 4, is just as fast as a small ship moving 5. This is why people think they should only go 3 and some fast big ships should go 4

Red 1 banks and straight for the Fang. Make it a bit more interesting as a jouster and make Kad SOlus more useful.

I was surprised by the dial of the Attack Shuttle. A bit too similar to the Ghost's... it should be more nimble.

Bigger ships have bigger engines, meaning they would absolutely be faster in space, what with the no resistance thing. So making them go slow, either the in star wars logic, or real world, makes absolutely no sense.

Only one I would change, would be the x-wing. Toss a 1 hard turn on it, and do 2 speed S-Loops. That would give them a much boxer type exchange. They could speed into the fight and just stay there. Yes I know the R2 gives green 1-2s but that's exactly why the generics would want to take them.

I feel like A-Wings and Interceptors should have access to things like S-Loops or T-Rolls, given that they're supposed to be some of the most maneuverable ships.

Better dial for the HWK-290.

All large based ships should not have a 1 hard turn.

I would like to see the Starviper have a slightly better dial, but I worry too many greens just turns it into a PTL ship, and it doesn't need that. It's not an arc dodger.

Bigger ships have bigger engines, meaning they would absolutely be faster in space, what with the no resistance thing. So making them go slow, either the in star wars logic, or real world, makes absolutely no sense.

Only one I would change, would be the x-wing. Toss a 1 hard turn on it, and do 2 speed S-Loops. That would give them a much boxer type exchange. They could speed into the fight and just stay there. Yes I know the R2 gives green 1-2s but that's exactly why the generics would want to take them.

If the X-Wing game mat was a 20 foot long narrow strip, then that would make more sense. Of course the Falcon would win a drag race... but the game takes place on a small square for dogfighting where ships are continuously twisting and turning.

That's not what freighters, patrol craft, and large mass objects are designed for, as that requires tons of momentum and inertia to maneuver.

It amuses me how much hate people bear for the JM5k.

especially in a game where every PWT has a godly dial.

And yet only one of them has a white sloop... and has an undercosted generic with an EPT... and is scum so that it has access to the games best cards... and has 2 torpedo slots... and... well you get the idea

The dial to the left is amazing, fair enough, it's supposed to be the good side of an asymmetrical dial. But the dial to the right is also pretty dang good, only causing a problem when you're stressed (or not at all if you're Dengaroo...). I was actually excited by the concept of an asymmetrical dial when it was first announced. But in practice it's both not asymmetrical enough and attached to a platform that's entirely too good.

Falcon now will have access to 3-white sloops (hello kanan!) Dash has all-green all-speed maneuvers.

Make it even a couple points costier and it doesn't work, take EPT away and it is flushed down the drain with all the ordnance alltogether, making it another "outer rim dung"

had it a missile and a torp people would have squealed even harder, mind you. and without a torp-munition slot, FFGs failure at ordnance design is still there.

Games best cards? Like what? Dengar who doesn't fit? R droid that no longer works? fett who only scares other Uboats? Zuckuss who makes you forget the idea of having actions? Oh, yeah, 4-lom, at least something good!

It's asymmetrical enough. It's just PWT-good. and all PWTs have great dials. Can't say PWTs are in a good spot right now and need any nerf whatsover. In a world of Autohumpers, ordnacne fests, Crackswarms and Defender walls.

Nerf is a bad thing, always. It's the underdogs we must help.

Also, buffing everything is not the answer; that's just surrendering to power creep instead of balance.

All large ships were already nerfed. 1/2 pts for 1/2 hull/shield didn't seem to keep people from flying them tho. Broll was also nerfed on large ships. Still didn't keep people from flying them. People are just gonna keep flying them.

And what's so bad about large ships?

All large ships were already nerfed. 1/2 pts for 1/2 hull/shield didn't seem to keep people from flying them tho. Broll was also nerfed on large ships. Still didn't keep people from flying them. People are just gonna keep flying them.

And what's so bad about large ships?

Bigger ships have bigger engines, meaning they would absolutely be faster in space, what with the no resistance thing. So making them go slow, either the in star wars logic, or real world, makes absolutely no sense.

Only one I would change, would be the x-wing. Toss a 1 hard turn on it, and do 2 speed S-Loops. That would give them a much boxer type exchange. They could speed into the fight and just stay there. Yes I know the R2 gives green 1-2s but that's exactly why the generics would want to take them.

Faster isn't the issue, maneuverability is. If the X-Wing game mat was a 20 foot long narrow strip, then that would make more sense. If course the Falcon would win a drag race... but the game takes place on a small square for dogfighting where ships are continuously twisting and turning. That's not what freighters, patrol craft, and large mass objects are designed for, as that requires tons of momentum and inertia to maneuver.

It amuses me how much hate people bear for the JM5k.

especially in a game where every PWT has a godly dial.

And yet only one of them has a white sloop... and has an undercosted generic with an EPT... and is scum so that it has access to the games best cards... and has 2 torpedo slots... and... well you get the idea

The dial to the left is amazing, fair enough, it's supposed to be the good side of an asymmetrical dial. But the dial to the right is also pretty dang good, only causing a problem when you're stressed (or not at all if you're Dengaroo...). I was actually excited by the concept of an asymmetrical dial when it was first announced. But in practice it's both not asymmetrical enough and attached to a platform that's entirely too good.

Falcon now will have access to 3-white sloops (hello kanan!) Dash has all-green all-speed maneuvers.

Make it even a couple points costier and it doesn't work, take EPT away and it is flushed down the drain with all the ordnance alltogether, making it another "outer rim dung"

had it a missile and a torp people would have squealed even harder, mind you. and without a torp-munition slot, FFGs failure at ordnance design is still there.

Games best cards? Like what? Dengar who doesn't fit? R droid that no longer works? fett who only scares other Uboats? Zuckuss who makes you forget the idea of having actions? Oh, yeah, 4-lom, at least something good!

It's asymmetrical enough. It's just PWT-good. and all PWTs have great dials. Can't say PWTs are in a good spot right now and need any nerf whatsover. In a world of Autohumpers, ordnacne fests, Crackswarms and Defender walls.

Nerf is a bad thing, always. It's the underdogs we must help.

I wholly disagree. The scout isn't teetering on the edge of effectiveness, it's several steps past it, and the dial is the biggest offender. It's more mobile stressed than some small ships are unstressed.

Also, buffing everything is not the answer; that's just surrendering to power creep instead of balance.

Every ship that sees tournament play is supposed to be 2-5 points over the point cost. if it's net worth is not "over the threshold" it's a meh choice that won't hit the tables.

Make it 2 points more expensive and suddenly it's not possible to make three (and as such you fail to penetrate the acewing), make it 1 point more expensive and U666U list falls apart.

Noteworthy that Dengar costs like Han. make it more expensive?

Some ships are better than others, because their traits have to be in emphasis. Low-PS interceptor? a joke.

overcosted swarm ship? Sorry, scyk.

A PWT that costs 33% of the squadron but can't punch through anything with it's 2-attack primary? LOL

so nope, not really. Uboat is precisely in the tournament threshold.

Precisely where other top-tier lists are. You can't simply DERP something from it, it can be pushed out by something new like TLT driving PWT-fest out of town. Not beaten because something is stronger, but pushed out because some specific tool deals with it.

T65 - 2 banks green, add 1 hard red

YT2400 - hard 1's red

Ewing - 1 hard white

all large base - remove speed 4

Every ship that sees tournament play is supposed to be 2-5 points over the point cost. if it's net worth is not "over the threshold" it's a meh choice that won't hit the tables.

Make it 2 points more expensive and suddenly it's not possible to make three (and as such you fail to penetrate the acewing), make it 1 point more expensive and U666U list falls apart.

Noteworthy that Dengar costs like Han. make it more expensive?

Some ships are better than others, because their traits have to be in emphasis. Low-PS interceptor? a joke.

overcosted swarm ship? Sorry, scyk.

A PWT that costs 33% of the squadron but can't punch through anything with it's 2-attack primary? LOL

so nope, not really. Uboat is precisely in the tournament threshold.

Precisely where other top-tier lists are. You can't simply DERP something from it, it can be pushed out by something new like TLT driving PWT-fest out of town. Not beaten because something is stronger, but pushed out because some specific tool deals with it.

I was referring to the dial, as we're in a dial thread. Changing the dial isn't going to make builds more expensive, but it definitely needs to be addressed. That thing has more whites than some small fighters.

For a ship that's supposed to be asymmetrically designed, when it's stressed, it shouldn't have a wide array of maneuvers available in both directions.

I'd give the defender Sloops and or Trolls.

And what's so bad about large ships?

Large ships that are more maneuverable than small fighters is a bit silly.

I guess everyone hates all large ships here... I mean, given that they're clearly so prevalent in the meta they must all be OP. Those YTs and Decimators, gotta nerf 'em!

You've made that fatal mistake of thinking that because people don't like how something works, it's because they think that thing is overpowered.

That's clearly not the case, which you'd know if you'd bothered to comprehend what's being said.

Not everything is about whether or not something is tournament worthy, OP, etc. Sometimes it's just about simple enjoyment of the game.

Personally I dislike turrets in their current form, I think that the Shadowcaster mobile arc would've been a better way to deal with the concept of turreted ships.

It doesn't mean I think turrets are overpowered, it means I don't like the mechanic. As a result I rarely play with turreted ships. Same with Large based ships - I dislike that I can put a Jumpmaster wherever the hell I want with absolutely no penalties - love the idea of an Asymetric dial, but it's not really that asymmetric when one side is almost entirely green, and the other side is almost entirely white. Make those right hard turns red and you've got a ship that people truly have to think about how they're going to play it to take advantage of those greens.

Don't get me wrong, it doesn't ruin the game for me (or anyone else I imagine), I still like to give the Decimator the odd run out, because there's still plenty of fun to be had - eg. bit of Kenkirk with Determination, Palpatine and Ysanne Isard, throw in another ship with draw-their-fire for an extra laugh.

Point is, even when they like something, people are allowed to fantasise about elements they'd like to have in the games they play. It's not just because they think things are overpowered.

And what's so bad about large ships?

People don't like losing to them.

I guess everyone hates all large ships here... I mean, given that they're clearly so prevalent in the meta they must all be OP. Those YTs and Decimators, gotta nerf 'em!

You've made that fatal mistake of thinking that because people don't like how something works, it's because they think that thing is overpowered.

Agree! Having a large based ship that is somehow more maneuverable than an X-wing is just....absurd. It's not so much about "the ship is more powerful and needs to be nerfed", but more a common sense thing.

Every ship that sees tournament play is supposed to be 2-5 points over the point cost. if it's net worth is not "over the threshold" it's a meh choice that won't hit the tables.

Make it 2 points more expensive and suddenly it's not possible to make three (and as such you fail to penetrate the acewing), make it 1 point more expensive and U666U list falls apart.

Noteworthy that Dengar costs like Han. make it more expensive?

Some ships are better than others, because their traits have to be in emphasis. Low-PS interceptor? a joke.

overcosted swarm ship? Sorry, scyk.

A PWT that costs 33% of the squadron but can't punch through anything with it's 2-attack primary? LOL

so nope, not really. Uboat is precisely in the tournament threshold.

Precisely where other top-tier lists are. You can't simply DERP something from it, it can be pushed out by something new like TLT driving PWT-fest out of town. Not beaten because something is stronger, but pushed out because some specific tool deals with it.

I was referring to the dial, as we're in a dial thread. Changing the dial isn't going to make builds more expensive, but it definitely needs to be addressed. That thing has more whites than some small fighters.

For a ship that's supposed to be asymmetrically designed, when it's stressed, it shouldn't have a wide array of maneuvers available in both directions.

If a ship is asymmetrical, it's capabilities aren't Limited" of "wide" due to that

you just have different capabilities depending on side you want to turn. It has no greens to the right. And 5-6 green maneuvers isn't that unusual. it's a well maneuverable ship.