What about a sorcerer class that was support oriented, adding temporary elemental effects to the other heroes' weapons, having a passive AoE like Aura that can encompass other adjacent heroes, or creating illusions that monsters MUST attack first? Just avoid the Rune weapon issue completely.

I love the idea of "elemental effects", but Descent really doesn't do the whole "different kinds of damage"-thing, and unfortunately, each expansion "has to" be practically self-contained in itself and Core, meaning that you can't pull on conditions such as Burning or Weakened to act as mechanical vehicles for the narrative concept (Burning for Fire, Weakened for Earth, Immobilize for Water/Frost, etc? Or whatever).

That being said, I'd love something like that. I'd probably call BS on the idea of creating illusions that the monsters must attack, though. Neither the heroes nor the overlord should ever be put into a purely reactionary stance, if it can be avoided. Having to make a certain decision in the interest of winning is psychologically different from being forced to do something. That sounds like a railroad to Nofunville.

Personally, unrelated to your overall idea, my wish has always been to get a Pyromancer class into the game, bundled with an appropriate hero. I'm thinking a focus on blasting, throwing the Burning Condition around like candy, and generally being a liability to your friends if you don't know what you're doing. Auras are sorely underused, and I think that adding Surge to Burn on all nearby hero weapons could be a pretty cool part of a skill. But that's unlikely to happen, because the Burning Condition was apparently in Lair of the Wyrm and will never appear again. Because reasons.

The elemental effects wouldn't necessitate conditions. I was thinking something more along the lines of the Elemental's abilities. Air ability could grant +3 accuracy to ranged attacks. An earth ability could allow a successful attack to push the enemy a certain number of spaces. Ice attacks could make the opponent brittle, such that the next attack to target that figure deals an additional 3 damage. Fire attacks could cause burning (why couldn't they throw a few Burning tokens/cards into the box? Seems cheap enough and they did similarly with Imperial Assault, if a unit uses Weakness the pack comes with tokens).

Perhaps with the illusion issue the ability would be that the hero could choose to transfer damage they would take to the illusion instead, similar to the necromancer ability Dark Pact, but only one way. Give the illusion like 6 health, the ability would require 2 fatigue to place the illusion, and it would have to be a valid target for the attack. Doesn't seem overly powerful or notveryfun to me

What about a sorcerer class that was support oriented, adding temporary elemental effects to the other heroes' weapons, having a passive AoE like Aura that can encompass other adjacent heroes, or creating illusions that monsters MUST attack first? Just avoid the Rune weapon issue completely.

The problem there is that numbers in Descent are low which makes it very difficult to create a buff class that's not either far too strong or far too weak.

For example the Shadow Warrior adds +1 heart to any attack which takes place near the Shadow. That's a lot of damage to add to every single attack especially at lower levels where an attack which does 6 damage is considered a lot.

You could copy that sort of power by allowing your mage to give +1 heart to anyone who attacks a target while standing within 2 spaces of the mage. But then it's very similar to the Shadow Warrior and also doesn't require a lot of player input, becoming quite dull.

It also rather invalidates the Hexer since all the Hexer does is buff the next attack made against a creature they've already attacked. Why be one of those if you can buff every single one of your companion's attacks?

I just can't think of new ways of doing damage with a mage that aren't going to step on the feet of other classes OR end up redundant because other things do it better. We've already had the Thief get obsoleted by the Treasure Hunter in the Scout archetype after all.

What about a sorcerer class that was support oriented, adding temporary elemental effects to the other heroes' weapons, having a passive AoE like Aura that can encompass other adjacent heroes, or creating illusions that monsters MUST attack first? Just avoid the Rune weapon issue completely.

The problem there is that numbers in Descent are low which makes it very difficult to create a buff class that's not either far too strong or far too weak.

For example the Shadow Warrior adds +1 heart to any attack which takes place near the Shadow. That's a lot of damage to add to every single attack especially at lower levels where an attack which does 6 damage is considered a lot.

You could copy that sort of power by allowing your mage to give +1 heart to anyone who attacks a target while standing within 2 spaces of the mage. But then it's very similar to the Shadow Warrior and also doesn't require a lot of player input, becoming quite dull.

It also rather invalidates the Hexer since all the Hexer does is buff the next attack made against a creature they've already attacked. Why be one of those if you can buff every single one of your companion's attacks?

I just can't think of new ways of doing damage with a mage that aren't going to step on the feet of other classes OR end up redundant because other things do it better. We've already had the Thief get obsoleted by the Treasure Hunter in the Scout archetype after all.

Imperial Assault has two different characters who grant bonuses based on tokens. Loku acts like the hexer (sort-of) by placing tokens on enemies which then suffer more damage with subsequent attacks, while Saska gives tokens to other heroes who can then redeem the tokens for additional effects. One targets an enemy, the other buffs the heroes. And a support mage wouldn't need to actually add damage to other attacks to make them worthwhile. In addition, using his actions to buff others removes the potential damage that his actions would do if they were used for attacks rather than buffs. It all sorts out in the wash...

What about a sorcerer class that was support oriented, adding temporary elemental effects to the other heroes' weapons, having a passive AoE like Aura that can encompass other adjacent heroes, or creating illusions that monsters MUST attack first? Just avoid the Rune weapon issue completely.

The problem there is that numbers in Descent are low which makes it very difficult to create a buff class that's not either far too strong or far too weak.

For example the Shadow Warrior adds +1 heart to any attack which takes place near the Shadow. That's a lot of damage to add to every single attack especially at lower levels where an attack which does 6 damage is considered a lot.

You could copy that sort of power by allowing your mage to give +1 heart to anyone who attacks a target while standing within 2 spaces of the mage. But then it's very similar to the Shadow Warrior and also doesn't require a lot of player input, becoming quite dull.

It also rather invalidates the Hexer since all the Hexer does is buff the next attack made against a creature they've already attacked. Why be one of those if you can buff every single one of your companion's attacks?

I just can't think of new ways of doing damage with a mage that aren't going to step on the feet of other classes OR end up redundant because other things do it better. We've already had the Thief get obsoleted by the Treasure Hunter in the Scout archetype after all.

Imperial Assault has two different characters who grant bonuses based on tokens. Loku acts like the hexer (sort-of) by placing tokens on enemies which then suffer more damage with subsequent attacks, while Saska gives tokens to other heroes who can then redeem the tokens for additional effects. One targets an enemy, the other buffs the heroes. And a support mage wouldn't need to actually add damage to other attacks to make them worthwhile. In addition, using his actions to buff others removes the potential damage that his actions would do if they were used for attacks rather than buffs. It all sorts out in the wash...

Loku is more like a Bounty Hunter and Saksa is a little like an Apothecary. But they have their own roles and own niches in a way that Descent doesn't really have. There's actually far less variety in descent right now even though it might not feel that way and a lot of classes that are obsolete or just don't work.

Saska also can carry on her own attacks and so can Loku and these abilities don't hinder them. Imperial Assault is a game of more damage and different sorts of dice too, there's more room to manuever.

It seems easier for them to create a character and class merged than try and make a class that works with every permutation of hero that Descent has. Most of what IA uses is a refined version of something that already exists in Descent and there's very few characters that you can play and feel like you're not doing anything at all. Almost every mage player in every game I've played over the last 3 years has felt like they're redundant.

What about a sorcerer class that was support oriented, adding temporary elemental effects to the other heroes' weapons, having a passive AoE like Aura that can encompass other adjacent heroes, or creating illusions that monsters MUST attack first? Just avoid the Rune weapon issue completely.

The problem there is that numbers in Descent are low which makes it very difficult to create a buff class that's not either far too strong or far too weak.

For example the Shadow Warrior adds +1 heart to any attack which takes place near the Shadow. That's a lot of damage to add to every single attack especially at lower levels where an attack which does 6 damage is considered a lot.

You could copy that sort of power by allowing your mage to give +1 heart to anyone who attacks a target while standing within 2 spaces of the mage. But then it's very similar to the Shadow Warrior and also doesn't require a lot of player input, becoming quite dull.

It also rather invalidates the Hexer since all the Hexer does is buff the next attack made against a creature they've already attacked. Why be one of those if you can buff every single one of your companion's attacks?

I just can't think of new ways of doing damage with a mage that aren't going to step on the feet of other classes OR end up redundant because other things do it better. We've already had the Thief get obsoleted by the Treasure Hunter in the Scout archetype after all.

The Shadow Soul only adds 1 damage to your attacks if you do 1 or more damage.

Alas, it would be more balanced this way. But it indeed adds +1 heart on each attack made by heroes adjacent to it as long as this attack deals at least 1 (even other familiars) (as iif all adjacent monsters were affected by doom)

What about a sorcerer class that was support oriented, adding temporary elemental effects to the other heroes' weapons, having a passive AoE like Aura that can encompass other adjacent heroes, or creating illusions that monsters MUST attack first? Just avoid the Rune weapon issue completely.

The problem there is that numbers in Descent are low which makes it very difficult to create a buff class that's not either far too strong or far too weak.

For example the Shadow Warrior adds +1 heart to any attack which takes place near the Shadow. That's a lot of damage to add to every single attack especially at lower levels where an attack which does 6 damage is considered a lot.

You could copy that sort of power by allowing your mage to give +1 heart to anyone who attacks a target while standing within 2 spaces of the mage. But then it's very similar to the Shadow Warrior and also doesn't require a lot of player input, becoming quite dull.

It also rather invalidates the Hexer since all the Hexer does is buff the next attack made against a creature they've already attacked. Why be one of those if you can buff every single one of your companion's attacks?

I just can't think of new ways of doing damage with a mage that aren't going to step on the feet of other classes OR end up redundant because other things do it better. We've already had the Thief get obsoleted by the Treasure Hunter in the Scout archetype after all.

The Shadow Soul only adds 1 damage to your attacks if you do 1 or more damage.

Yes? That doesn't defeat the point though. That's quite a bit of extra damage and I don't see how another class doing something similar can do anything but be overpowered or too weak (if it worked another way).

What about a sorcerer class that was support oriented, adding temporary elemental effects to the other heroes' weapons, having a passive AoE like Aura that can encompass other adjacent heroes, or creating illusions that monsters MUST attack first? Just avoid the Rune weapon issue completely.

The problem there is that numbers in Descent are low which makes it very difficult to create a buff class that's not either far too strong or far too weak.

For example the Shadow Warrior adds +1 heart to any attack which takes place near the Shadow. That's a lot of damage to add to every single attack especially at lower levels where an attack which does 6 damage is considered a lot.

You could copy that sort of power by allowing your mage to give +1 heart to anyone who attacks a target while standing within 2 spaces of the mage. But then it's very similar to the Shadow Warrior and also doesn't require a lot of player input, becoming quite dull.

It also rather invalidates the Hexer since all the Hexer does is buff the next attack made against a creature they've already attacked. Why be one of those if you can buff every single one of your companion's attacks?

I just can't think of new ways of doing damage with a mage that aren't going to step on the feet of other classes OR end up redundant because other things do it better. We've already had the Thief get obsoleted by the Treasure Hunter in the Scout archetype after all.

The Shadow Soul only adds 1 damage to your attacks if you do 1 or more damage.

Yes? That doesn't defeat the point though. That's quite a bit of extra damage and I don't see how another class doing something similar can do anything but be overpowered or too weak (if it worked another way).

I am not defeating your point, merely clarifying that the Shadow Soul does not give +1 damage on all attacks. This might seem small but can mean the difference between an alive monster and a dead monster.

It also rather invalidates the Hexer since all the Hexer does is buff the next attack made against a creature they've already attacked.

Myabe you just worded it incorrectly, but remember Hexer can attack one monster, and Hex another, and spread (or just increase) that Hex with his other skills. So, in the end, you can place multiple tokens on a monster that never was attacked, to just kill him with only one final blow.

It also rather invalidates the Hexer since all the Hexer does is buff the next attack made against a creature they've already attacked.

Myabe you just worded it incorrectly, but remember Hexer can attack one monster, and Hex another, and spread (or just increase) that Hex with his other skills. So, in the end, you can place multiple tokens on a monster that never was attacked, to just kill him with only one final blow.

You can. This takes a few skills though. Last time we played with a hexer by the time she had that ability (Viral Hex) she could surge for +5 damage. In a total of seven quests after she got that power she hexed a creature once. Because why bother when you can just hurt more?

And that's why the other mage classes don't quite work and why the Warrior ones are almost all good.