In order to consolidate similar ideas, I have talked with and included Jason's post into this thread's header. His post follows mine. If anyone is interested in keeping this game alive, please email him ([email protected]). Remember one email per person. I know we have all bitched about one thing or another that we would like to change in this game. Well - aside from saving this game - here is the opportunity to make this game better. I feel a consortium of players making their own game could turn out great.

I posted the following on the player committee thread, but I want it to have its own topic. There have been a couple of games that I have been passionate about lately (3.5 and UFS); and while one of the two survived in another form, I want to see if this can be revived (like heroclix). Unfortunately, it seems as though UFS will need a new home. My scout in Arkansas and I were investigating the idea of buying the UFS licensing. Have it be a player-driven company. This has been successfully done before.

Now for the reality

Some roadblocks:

-Licensing costs - We may have to start with our own license to generate enough income to get the big licenses

-Printing costs - I suspect very expensive - We would not be able to start with foil cards, but those could be included with later sets

-Artwork costs - While some artists may be ok to do pro-bono work for exposure, there may be a lot of expense involved with this and quality may not be what it was when STG/FFG ran the show. But as with Alpha, the artwork was sub-par, but got better as revenue was generated.

-Promotion costs - enough said

-Distribution costs and process - never had to deal with this, no idea how it works. But it is something that needs to be handled

-Startup costs - 99-100% of whatever we could scrounge up would have to go into the company. Paying positions would be few if any at all.

-The Independent Problem - We have a number of people really excited about helping now - right after the game is cancelled. Where will people's motivation be several months down the line when they are working at their job and spending their free time working on a game that may or may not fly? (see the good news below).

-Organization - There has to be strict organization and deadlines. Especially with these volunteer projects. I understand life intrudes with their hobbies; but if this is to be successful, then we have to be willing to give our blood sweat and tears to the project. Sacrifice is the word. Yet we could see great rewards too.

-The hobby game market - Truth be told - it is very difficult to make any sort of profit in this market. However if we focus on one line and give it all we have, then there is a chance we can make it work. If there is a market for the true small independent - it is this market.

Our goal should be to take what we currently like and change things that need to be changed. See Paizo's Pathfinder for an example of how this is done.

Some suggestions:

Game play/balance - This was starting to happen and the game play was starting to get good again with the last several sets (SW1 onward). We should keep the direction.

Power level - MTG has the super competitive - "I am going to kill you for those cards" thing down. I like that we are much more laid back. There is a market for that and I feel a much better community. It is my opinion that it is that casually competitive type of community that gives us a chance of making this succeed.

OP - Need a better website.

OP part 2 - See above. And we need to keep with the product prize concept. The player as character card should also remain. A world rankings site should come back. Finally we need to have a much more organized organized play - meaning two - three different tournament types that have support. This also needs to start small as we build the company.

Feedback loop - Players should have a way to give constructive criticism to developers (not just bitching). That means forums and probably some sort of post-tournament discussion. Maybe some other means that I cannot think of right now.

Website - Duh. Also a searchable card library. Announcements. Etc. Perhaps maybe we could get a new podcast going during initial development (hmm - maybe would help generate interest).

Next steps:

These are my suggestions:

1. Create a development site where people could join and have a singular place to discuss ideas

2. Contact FFG and determine what we can do and how much it would cost to do what we want to do (say no to copyright infringement)

3. Layout roles and then decide amongst ourselves who would fill those roles

4. Determine leaders for each group

5. Set deadlines

6. Work our asses off to save this good game.

Derek Knutsen.

Please also look into this:

Hello everyone.

As you all know by now, UFS has been canceled. I was unaware of this and have put in many many hours of work to this point to help FFG with their game, which I also love. At this point it is hard for me to say if we will still be doing a pro tour. Please leave me your insight. I will let you vote on either continuing the pro tour this year, or holding one last major event in each country. I personally thought that UFS was in the best condition it had ever been in. I was shocked to find out that it will be discontinued, but as you are aware, I am a very determined fighter for the game. so...

Can we bring it back to life? I was already interested in using my own money to print UFS Pro Tour only promo cards. Now it looks like I might have to pick up the license and rights to UFS all together. I am going to talk to Steve tomorrow the 22nd and see if this is feasible. He said we have 1,000 players. That is a better start than 0, which is what the game had when it was launched. Would you be for Jasco Games being the official publisher and organizer of UFS in the future? It would be the only game we are focused on and I would make vital changes to the distribution and management of the game. This is all theoretical, but if I have your support and even half of you are willing to contact me and let me know that you will help me and help the game, I will do everything in my power to revive it. Here is what I need:

E-mail me at [email protected] and feel free to call me at 806-252-3404 (at reasonable hours)

In the message tell me 1- if you still want a pro tour and will attend, and 2- if you would help me revive UFS under our name?

Only you the players can decide if the game can continue, so I am leaving it up to you to contact every player you know to let me know that there is interest in this game enough for me to invest more than any one person ever should into a game.

This is my final call, If this does not work then I appreciate everything you have done to support me and to support the Universal Fighting System. It was great playing with all of you and I hope we meet again!

I will tally every message I get in support of Jasco Games getting the rights to UFS. 500 is my goal. I will let you know where we stand in a week, and please post your message in the next 2 weeks. PLEASE NO MULTIPLE MESSAGES! This will not help, it will just give me false numbers to go off of.

Just so you know this is going to cost a metric buttload of cash and if you have that kind of asset to into a game then so be it but i just want to know for sure before i put my efforts into helping something that might not be worth doing in the first place

Dont get me wrong i would love to see this work and UFS to still be printed but if were going to do this we gotta do it right

I agree totally about the metric-buttload of cash. However - I think that it would be the players - especially those that still remain after everything went down this past Gen Con who would be the best source to revive the game. I am not under any illusions that this is a difficult venture nor that there is a high degree of potential failure, but it is my opinion that I won't know unless I try. Then I look back at the thousands of dollars I have spent, the vast amounts of time I have put into deck building, and the tournaments I have traveled to and think to myself that saving this is something worth at least looking into. As long as all involved are realistic, give the idea a chance, and always have the option of pulling the plug at any time, this could succeed.

A much cheaper way of doing this would be doing it online only. Sure, it might be slightly boring, only sitting by your computer and clicking on your cards, but there are positive aspects as well. Some of them are:

Easier to organize large tournaments. No more traveling, and people like us (Swedes for example) wouldn't have to pay 1000's of dollars for even getting there. The price support is also a lot cheaper. It would also make it possible to have money prizes, since the cards pays for themselves, and the main costs would be the artwork and the development och the software.

Less competition. Not a lot of cardgames are playable online, especially not in a way that supports drafting and that is supported by the company that makes the game. The only one I know is Magic Online, and that software is ****. I mean, seriously, it looks like it was made 1998, and it's slow, the chat system sucks, the trading system sucks. Thus, if it was possible to make a good engine, with ufs instead of magic, it'd probably be quite easy to draw people, especially if we have cash-prizes. It'd be the only online ccg with cash prizes.

Easier to play any day of the week, any time of the day. There'd only be like on big playgroup, so even people who don't have friends who play it can play it.

I think the main advantage of this method is not needing managing and paying for printing and sending cards all over the world.

Just a thought.

Saikyun

That is a very good idea. Especially to start. It would completely remove the whole printing problem. But that would raise the programming issues. There would need to be a team of developers that could work for little cost until we could get up and running (not unheard of). A definite possibility. This could also remove the - "No one plays in my area" problem.

dwolf52000 said:

This could aslso generate interest for alot of people who havent played before and they want 2 try it out....you could also charge like a 5 or 10 dollar a month fee so that you could slightly pay some of the designers....its not 2 unheard of when there is all these MMOs out there

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

Maybe more like "buy a booster each month" to be able to play, or something. A monthly fee is usually a reason not to play for many. :]

I am actually a bit of a C++ programmer, but I wouldn't be able to do this myself. I do have a friend who also is quite good, but we'd still need more people =) We're finished with school at the end of the next term (around June). After that I'll probably have quite a lot of time, I don't plan on going to college the first year at least.

Maybe we could get a development site running?

Also, I have no problems with programming, but I have no idea how to go on without breaking 1k copyright laws.

Saikyun said:

thats true...could we implement an online booster sale kinda thing to eliminate paper product period? would that not be a valid way to go?

say pay 2 dollars for a booster like you would in real life? but instead of having cards to deal with you have cards online? and we could even go back(possibly) and release the older sets in time

lol - Yeah - the whole licensing thing would still be problematic.

I am a database developer/admin myself and another person I would want to bring in is also a database person. I don't think that technical resources would be that big of a problem. Nor would card development. Artists are still an issue.

I am also a big fan of your idea of at least 1 pack per month fee. That way people are getting something for their money.

It seems there is an interest. I need to see how much a license agreement will cost.

I still want to eventually go back to paper at some point and level. That way we can keep the social aspect of the game.

dwolf52000 said:

Well obviously yeah but i mean id still love 2 have somewhere 2 start

dwolf52000 said:

dwolf52000 said:

Yes, that is also important, but somehow secondary, as right now apparently it's not really working. One step at a time.

But what we could do to increase the social aspect (even in some ways beyond normal games) would be adding support for microphone and webcam. That way you could meet a lot of new people. And of course those who don't want to use it can just turn it off.

We really need a good location to consolidate ideas and work through problems. Maybe a Google group. Thoughts? I would like something a little more concrete before going to Steve and saying - hey I want to continue developing UFS.

Maybe we can just throw up (uh, not as in puking) a forum? I like forums. The problem is that we need more than three people saying they're interested, and then the forum dies after a week. Lets just make more people see this thread or something for a while.

By the way, trying out google wave later on might be an idea? At least for specific issues and so on, if we get somewhere. I have 25 invites or so. *shrugs*

Agreed on all points. I want to wait and see where things go. There are others interested. We need to consolidate.

dwolf52000 said:

talk to antigoth they are workin on a forums for his website i believe its down right now but im pretty sure thats the word...you would have to check though

Hey dwolf52000

Thanks for the call!

I have already talked with FFG and have arranged an appointment to talk to Steve. If you guys are indeed as serious as I am, thank you for working together with me on saving the game. I invite everyone to do everything they can to keep this game that I love so much alive.

Here is what I can bring to the table, when I talk about taking over the license:

I work with nearly every game distributor in the US already

I have contacted the card printer months ago about printing my own card game

I have organized and so far had a very successful response to the Pro Tour Circuit

I have owned a gaming business for 8 years

I have the time and the passion to focus every minute on designing and promoting UFS, where as FFG had to split their employees amongst other games

and I am sure there is more.

FFG used to only print board games and RPG's. This is the main reason why when they took over AT-43 and Confrontation, as well as UFS their games failed. They have had no previous experience marketing a game that requires so much support after it is printed. Boardgames sort of just float themselves, but these games take passion and hard work to continue. It was a huge sign to me when Tekken 6 and Street Fighter 4 were released, FFG had made no arrangements to add promotional cards into the packaging of these games. They did this with Warhammer but went on to make all of those cards illegal and never made any more for Warhammer.

So I suggest that all optimistic and pro UFS posts consolidate to this thread. We have to many treads running everywhere! Lets work together and I will let all of you know what Steve says to me when he calls me back for our license discussion. I will give you all of the details, the price, the plan, everything. I do not plan on ever leaving anyone in the dark.

The Pro Tour Circuit as of right now is still on. We will have one in Austin and we need to find a new forum to post asap before this one is deleted. Anyone with web design skills, please contact me. I guess until then, look on myspace at our page.

Jason

I am looking into getting a Google group up and running. It will have a gmail account and be a good location for us to centralize discussion without the risk of losing this forum.

Hello everyone.

As you all know by now, UFS has been canceled. I was unaware of this and have put in many many hours of work to this point to help FFG with their game, which I also love. At this point it is hard for me to say if we will still be doing a pro tour. Please leave me your insight. I will let you vote on either continuing the pro tour this year, or holding one last major event in each country. I personally thought that UFS was in the best condition it had ever been in. I was shocked to find out that it will be discontinued, but as you are aware, I am a very determined fighter for the game. so...

Can we bring it back to life? I was already interested in using my own money to print UFS Pro Tour only promo cards. Now it looks like I might have to pick up the license and rights to UFS all together. I am going to talk to Steve tomorrow the 22nd and see if this is feasible. He said we have 1,000 players. That is a better start than 0, which is what the game had when it was launched. Would you be for Jasco Games being the official publisher and organizer of UFS in the future? It would be the only game we are focused on and I would make vital changes to the distribution and management of the game. This is all theoretical, but if I have your support and even half of you are willing to contact me and let me know that you will help me and help the game, I will do everything in my power to revive it. Here is what I need:

E-mail me at [email protected] and feel free to call me at 806-252-3404 (at reasonable hours)

In the message tell me 1- if you still want a pro tour and will attend, and 2- if you would help me revive UFS under our name?

Only you the players can decide if the game can continue, so I am leaving it up to you to contact every player you know to let me know that there is interest in this game enough for me to invest more than any one person ever should into a game.

This is my final call, If this does not work then I appreciate everything you have done to support me and to support the Universal Fighting System. It was great playing with all of you and I hope we meet again!

I will tally every message I get in support of Jasco Games getting the rights to UFS. 500 is my goal. I will let you know where we stand in a week, and please post your message in the next 2 weeks. PLEASE NO MULTIPLE MESSAGES! This will not help, it will just give me false numbers to go off of.

To assist us in getting a concise path for UFS down - I have created a Google group. For right now I have the group set as open access, but as things progress, I would like to be more restrictive to reduce the potential for spam.

Anyway - for anyone who wants to constructively contribute to the future of UFS, please go to and join: http://groups.google.com/group/ufs-relaunch

Da_ghetto_gamer said:

Creating a forum is not an issue, there are a lot of great, free forums to use. The problem is getting enough people interested in this project to get it to work. If those people are already at Antigoth's place, then I guess that might be a good place to start if it comes up again.

I want to immediately throw my hat into the mix. I'm a programming student right now. I haven't done any really work on it, but for a long time I've been thinking about the algorithms and coding it would take to make a UFS online engine. The biggest issue I have run into, besides my general n00b-ness, is things like Response loops and how to handle them in the system without taking up a stupid amount of processing power and ultimately crash. Before the switch to the current forums, I made a lot of fan cards and would be all for helping out on that and with the mathematics and balancing act. I can also help with art and IP development if you want to go that route and I could probably rope some nerdy art student friends, one of which would like to work for wizards and painting card art, to do some work to get out there. If we can REALLY get this thing rolling, working via online store and GenCon distribution like a lot of start up companies I think this could be a success if we can use the UFS system (blocking, resources etc etc). I know this is jumping the gun a lot but the reviving notion has got my brain on over drive, a LCG type distribution could be the easiest for us to start with.

[email protected]

facebook.com/halbard100

AiM: Halbard100

Get ahold of me and we can talk. But I'm all for helping things get running from a creative and work stand point.

Yeah i know ive already said this many times but im down 4 helping anyway i possibly can ive joined the group on google and im a member of the myspace page for the pro tour so i shouldnt be too hard to find but in case you need to reach me

My myspace is myspace.com/cesparkz

Aim: Mastermike504 + Yahoo for email adress

I just joined the aforementioned Google groups. Let me know how i may contribute. I have some creative ideas for card-sets, potential licenses, and even potential formats that could be officially recognized and supported by whatever this game manifests into.

To be perfectly frank, I'm not totally sure what my response to this entire issue should be. I'm sure most of what I could say already has been (I read all 7 pages of responses to the SOTG), and pretty much all of my game-saving support has also been expressed. However, there is one thing I've thought of that I have yet to see anybody say...

Has anybody ever considered maybe we UFS players should pay money towards this game as though it were a bill? No, seriously, each time you get a paycheck, or once a month (whichever is best for you. I have an apartment and a car, I know how it works), take a portion of said paycheck and send it to a UFS collective fund.

I mean, let's just say you pull 1200 a month. Let's say 500 goes towards rent, 30 towards utilities, 50 towards gas, 50 towards groceries. Okay, so that's 630 dollars out, leaving you with 570 remaining. Well if you've already covered your life's necessities, consider your money being spent not on cards but on getting the game back to life. Even if all you can contribute is 50 dollars, if even two people did that, that's already 100 dollars into saving the game, and if you get 100 people to do the same...

I think you get the point. I know it may sound unreliable, cheap, etc, but as a person who needs to pay for college, all the woes of an apartment, and various other expenditures, as well as a guy who hasn't had a true playgroup in over a year, even I have a couple twenties in my wallet I could burn off if it went towards the cause of saving a great facet of my life.

I quit Yugioh for this card game, and at one point in time, I had made more fan-created cards than UFS had in their entire card library. No matter how small the game, how small the effort, we UFS players have always had a tightly-knit community, and while we were coddled by STG and to a lesser extent FFG, it is time we the players take matters into our own hands and work together for what has pretty much always been a fan-made game.