Some pilots only work if you invest heavily in them, Corran without PTL will die fast, without FCS he's not going to modify his second attack which could see it doing nothing etc.

You can try running without the usual upgrades but I don't reckon it'll end well myself.

So why is he bad everywhere else then in Heaver's list? You claim it's because target priority, which I said is a part of team building.

And I really don't get your point that Poe can't fit in proper with Biggs. If anything, Poe doesn't need Biggs as much as Corran. As I said before, his ability is both defensive and offensive. It has its limitations, but I've seen it turn the tide.

I'll grant you that there are harder hitting pilots, but that doesn't mean that Poe isn't good. Poe is a far more balanced pilot who can make a single action last all turn.

I don't think we could go further on the argument of who was better in the past: I find Poe lackluster and frail while preferring Miranda and Corran as regen aces and you seem to do the opposite.

The only thing I can add is that of them, the only one who actually won something and he's doing fine in this meta is Corran Horn

Fair. Opinions can vary, and that's fine as long as they aren't touted as fact. Your final point falls under that too.

The way I see the main Rebel Regen ships:

• Poe is best when you need passive damage mitigation. He's very good against large volumes of relatively low-output attacks, but weaker against a few high-output attacks, and his own damage output is relatively low.
• Corran is best when you need spikes of damage or defense. His ability allows him to put up awesome offensive output, and with the evade action, three dice, and either PtL or VI to help arc-dodge, he excels at soaking up a couple good shots. Once you start getting a good number of guns on target, though, you can eat through his action shell pretty quickly and bring him down.
• I don't have a catchy tagline for Miranda, but she's cool too. She has a turret and can dish out a lot of damage, and she's solid as long as the enemy doesn't have a ton of ships -- she can handle two or three without a problem, but upwards of that, they start to chew through that hull pretty quick. The biggest drawback that she has compared to the other two is damage mitigation; she can't hope to just shrug off attacks, even if they're just two dice.

What are the common Miranda builds btw? These discussions about rebel aces include her but I've never seen her on the table.

Miranda and TLT basically does her gimmick with no other upgrades. Everything else is just gravy. Of all the upgrades other than TLT to put on her, c3po probably is the most sensible.

Interesting. When she fires a TLT her ability only affects one of the two attacks though, yeah?

Would

Ptl

sensor cluster

R2d2

Autothrusters

Black one

Work? Pricey but gives him an awful lot of defence at his ps and maintains the regen.

Miranda and TLT basically does her gimmick with no other upgrades. Everything else is just gravy. Of all the upgrades other than TLT to put on her, c3po probably is the most sensible.

These days with crackshot, juke and TB creepio has lost alot of his power.

I don't think we could go further on the argument of who was better in the past: I find Poe lackluster and frail while preferring Miranda and Corran as regen aces and you seem to do the opposite.

The only thing I can add is that of them, the only one who actually won something and he's doing fine in this meta is Corran Horn

Fair. Opinions can vary, and that's fine as long as they aren't touted as fact. Your final point falls under that too.

A Corran list winning at least 3 regionals in the past couple of months and also reaching top 4 in a National and top 8 at a SOS is a fact, not an opinion

The opinion is that I think Poe has never been good outside a specific list

I don't think we could go further on the argument of who was better in the past: I find Poe lackluster and frail while preferring Miranda and Corran as regen aces and you seem to do the opposite.

The only thing I can add is that of them, the only one who actually won something and he's doing fine in this meta is Corran Horn

Fair. Opinions can vary, and that's fine as long as they aren't touted as fact. Your final point falls under that too.

A Corran list winning at least 3 regionals in the past couple of months and also reaching top 4 in a National and top 8 at a SOS is a fact, not an opinion

The opinion is that I think Poe has never been good outside a specific list

Okay. Completely disagree, but okay.

Would

Ptl

sensor cluster

R2d2

Autothrusters

Black one

Work? Pricey but gives him an awful lot of defence at his ps and maintains the regen.

I don't think we could go further on the argument of who was better in the past: I find Poe lackluster and frail while preferring Miranda and Corran as regen aces and you seem to do the opposite.

The only thing I can add is that of them, the only one who actually won something and he's doing fine in this meta is Corran Horn

Fair. Opinions can vary, and that's fine as long as they aren't touted as fact. Your final point falls under that too.

A Corran list winning at least 3 regionals in the past couple of months and also reaching top 4 in a National and top 8 at a SOS is a fact, not an opinion

The opinion is that I think Poe has never been good outside a specific list

So you are ignoring what we are talking about with Heaver winning worlds with Poe? Your last point didn't indicate time frame, which led to the interpretation that Poe has never won anything.

Okay. Completely disagree, but okay.

I thought that "this meta" in the previous post and "last couple of months" in the most recent one were enough to give context, but I see that I have probably costructed the phrase badly.

I'm also saying since my first post that Heaver's list was THE good Poe list and I never disputed it. I don't get why you keep getting back to this point

I don't think we could go further on the argument of who was better in the past: I find Poe lackluster and frail while preferring Miranda and Corran as regen aces and you seem to do the opposite.

The only thing I can add is that of them, the only one who actually won something and he's doing fine in this meta is Corran Horn

Fair. Opinions can vary, and that's fine as long as they aren't touted as fact. Your final point falls under that too.

A Corran list winning at least 3 regionals in the past couple of months and also reaching top 4 in a National and top 8 at a SOS is a fact, not an opinion

The opinion is that I think Poe has never been good outside a specific list

So you are ignoring what we are talking about with Heaver winning worlds with Poe? Your last point didn't indicate time frame, which led to the interpretation that Poe has never won anything.

Okay. Completely disagree, but okay.

I thought that "this meta" in the previous post and "last couple of months" in the most recent one were enough to give context, but I see that I have probably costructed the phrase badly.

I'm also saying since my first post that Heaver's list was THE good Poe list and I never disputed it. I don't get why you keep getting back to this point

Agree to disagree?

Guys!!! B-WINGS are amazing!! Why are no good players flying them?!?!?! They won a Worlds and a bunch of Regionals... a few years ago !!!


#GetWithTheMeta...

Anyone who thinks Poe is good because he won something two Waves ago is living in a naive dream world. It doesn't matter if it was ten days ago or ten years ago, what matters is what new cards have come out and the current meta. That's like saying Han+Threepio is still a god-mode ship, even though TLTs ran it entirely out of the meta when Wave 7 dropped. Even if TLT's were banned tomorrow, things like Plasma Torp Scouts, Dengaroo, Omega Leader, Crack Swarms, and Palp Aces would still make Hanpio one of the biggest wastes of points you could bring to the game right now.

Guys!!! B-WINGS are amazing!! Why are no good players flying them?!?!?! They won a Worlds and a bunch of Regionals... a few years ago !!!

#GetWithTheMeta...

Anyone who thinks Poe is good because he won something two Waves ago is living in a naive dream world. It doesn't matter if it was ten days ago or ten years ago, what matters is what new cards have come out and the current meta. That's like saying Han+Threepio is still a god-mode ship, even though TLTs ran it entirely out of the meta when Wave 7 dropped. Even if TLT's were banned tomorrow, things like Plasma Torp Scouts, Dengaroo, Omega Leader, Crack Swarms, and Palp Aces would still make Hanpio one of the biggest wastes of points you could bring to the game right now.

You are probably right because although I listen to all the meta talk, I don' pay much attention to it. But wait until Poe shows up in his Black One along with Rey and Han in the Rectenna Falcon. Now that's a meta baby.

Black one Poe is just the same crap but worth more points after your opponent's torp scouts nuke the crap out of it

Pattern Analyzer (perform action before check pilot stress on red maneuver) might make him more interesting (focus up on trolls; whee!)

But ps 9 Poe is just a redundant and less efficient ps 8 Poe. He will change basically nothing unless we get some juicey t70 buffs (and then we'll just stick to ps 8 Poe, or hopefully some of the new guys)

New falcon is utterly DOA with what was currently spoiled/visible. They'd need somethingvutterly busted to come back

Frankly, given the Stratocaster doing turret mechanics correctly, the game is better off without them

Gotcha. While I am looking forward to HotR like a fanboy I have no idea if it is any good or not. Just yanking the chain.

As a single threat or even a single regenerator, Poe is not especially inspiring unless he is 1-on-1. His ability to modify every dice roll is decent but not earth shattering by any means. Where he excels is combined with some other threat. As the perceived "Ace" opponents often focus him down at the expense of other dangerous targets.

I normally run Poe (VI, R5-P9) with Red Ace (R2-D2, Comms Relay) and use him to target high PS threats early on. While his survival rate is not huge, he is usually effective enough and he attracts a lot of attention. By the time Poe goes down, there is usually not much left with the kind of burst damage need to take down the flying tank that is Red Ace.

This tag-team have won me many battles.

Very much a bad end-game matchup (Poe was a better ship, but as listed is ill-suited to single-ship duels), and certainly bad tactics (accepting a close range exchange of shots with a much tougher ship).

In this case, the TIE/x7 Defender is essentially the one with the regeneration droid whilst Poe didn't have one. In a one-on-one fight, you'll both be shooting at one another every turn (given half a chance) so that evade token is essentially a recovered shield.

TIE/x7 is therefore a really good card for a one-on-one match.

By comparison, Poe Dameron's ability is really good when facing multiple opponents (because every attack after the first is an extra focus-to-evade result that someone else wouldn't have had).

As noted, he is clearly the worse head-on jouster in this match....therefore he is the one who has to use his dial, and free barrel roll, to avoid a head-on pass. Certainly range 1 head-to-head shootouts are a no-no, and if he's going to end up in one, then use either BB-8's barrel roll, or boost, or both, to avoid it.

As noted, he is clearly the worse head-on jouster in this match....therefore he is the one who has to use his dial, and free barrel roll, to avoid a head-on pass. Certainly range 1 head-to-head shootouts are a no-no, and if he's going to end up in one, then use either BB-8's barrel roll, or boost, or both, to avoid it.

Sure, but on the table that is close to impossible for Poe to achieve against the X7s generous K-Turns. Everyone who keeps saying Poe just flew this wrong and should have arc-dodged I suspect haven't played many actual games with a T70 or against a modern TIE Defender.

Poe, despite having higher PS and limited repositioning (requires a green straight/bank and/or sacrificing his dice-modification) will effectively have to choose between:

(1) Being out of arc but also having no shot

-or-

(2) Having a shot but also getting shot at

This mythical (3) Being out of enemy arc AND having a shot will be very, very hard for Poe to accomplish in practice in this match-up against the X7's K-Turns.

Since this was an untimed casual game, Poe basically has to settle for (2) and will lose 90% of the time as long as the Defender player doesn't make any egregious positioning errors. In a tournament, Poe can do (1) and just win on time [which is often how Heaver's 2015 WC Poe list would beat ships like Fel in the endgame: just beat them at time because Poe was worth slightly more points.] Poe isn't shooting down tough token-turtles, whether he's built to arc dodge or regen. He lacks the concentration of Firepower.

I one shot Poe with Fenn Rau....7 dice attack with APT. Poe is good, but he is too squishy for some of the new ***** out like the Protectorate..

I one shot Poe with Fenn Rau....7 dice attack with APT. Poe is good, but he is too squishy for some of the new ***** out like the Protectorate..

less poe's fault, more of the player who let Rau do that

Guys!!! B-WINGS are amazing!! Why are no good players flying them?!?!?! They won a Worlds and a bunch of Regionals... a few years ago !!! #GetWithTheMeta...

Anyone who thinks Poe is good because he won something two Waves ago is living in a naive dream world. It doesn't matter if it was ten days ago or ten years ago, what matters is what new cards have come out and the current meta. That's like saying Han+Threepio is still a god-mode ship, even though TLTs ran it entirely out of the meta when Wave 7 dropped. Even if TLT's were banned tomorrow, things like Plasma Torp Scouts, Dengaroo, Omega Leader, Crack Swarms, and Palp Aces would still make Hanpio one of the biggest wastes of points you could bring to the game right now.

The mob is fickle. Im pretty sure b-wings made top 16 or so at worlds a few months ago. Just because I dont want to play b-wings for the rest of eternity doesnt mean they are not solid.

• Poe has a problem on defense as his ability is tailored against lots of small attacks and helps very little against fewer bigger attacks
• Poe's bigger problem is damage output. Attacking with only the one eyeball turned to a hit makes him the lowest damage output you can buy for his cost, and he can't remotely hurt /x7 Defenders
• R5-P9 regen builds are hammered by Hotshot Copilot

Aside from the fact that he dies easily, deals no damage when he's alive, and is directly hurt by one of the strongest new strategies... Poe is in a great spot!

Fat Poe is awesome. Shut up all of you ****** naysayers! Ain't you dumb-dumbs ever heard of pattern analyzer?