The efficiency of Soontir and the Inquisitor (with or without Palpatine) and now the D/x7 show how much the aces of both the rebels and scum are at a disadvantage. The empire can easily field 3 strong high PS ships (or 2 with Palp) and they are all dangerous and hard to hit. For scum or rebels, the equivalent ships will cost at least 5 points more or are nonexistent. (I haven't really explored the protectorate yet, does it change things?)

eh, that's not really the case

for costing more points, the rebel regenerators are at least effectively immortal 1v1 while imp ships without palp are always at the mercy of dice (to some extent)

and costing more means a 1v1 is an auto-win (mod wins don't exist anymore!)

that real problem is the sustained damage mitigation of imperial aces tends to be more useful v all the gobs AND gobs of damage you're likely to find on the table nowadays

flying Poe against a newer player (he had x7s, I thought it'd be easy mode for them!) and then Norra in general, I also thought they were just less good than their imperial counterparts

turns out it's not the case at all, they just excel in different scenarios ("different scenarios" here meaning "with Biggs")

But if there's alot of regen in your local meta you just switch to /D you can't do greens when ioned.

Truth be told, Poe has never been a good pilot.

He happened to perfectly fit into the Paul Heaver's core of TLT y + stressbot + bandit, and he was a decent second threat to Aide's Corran. But as a rebel regen ship he was behind either Miranda and Corran Horn who both had better survivability and punched harder.

Also, with BB-8 you are overpaying a fragile and not so manouvrable ace

Let's see what happens when you compare Poe with a Starviper.

PS9 Poe = 33 points

PS9 Xizor + Virago + VI = 33 points

- Both can take auto-thrusters

- Both have boost

- Starviper arguably has a slightly better dial (1-turns)

- Starviper has more agility

- Starviper has barrel roll

Sure Poe has things going for him too, but there is nothing that makes him drastically better than Xizor. This is a bad sign.

Truth be told, Poe has never been a good pilot.

He happened to perfectly fit into the Paul Heaver's core of TLT y + stressbot + bandit, and he was a decent second threat to Aide's Corran. But as a rebel regen ship he was behind either Miranda and Corran Horn who both had better survivability and punched harder.

Also, with BB-8 you are overpaying a fragile and not so manouvrable ace

Poe is pretty good but he's not really on the power level of things like defenders, inquisitor, jumpmasters.

So, you realized how much of a crutch rebel regen were?

Why wouldn't you use something efficient on Poe? With the same point cost you can have BB-8 and PTL, which should quite easily outmaneuver the defender and also do modified damage. That's the build I play on Poe.

sorry, but this all is like saying "Soontir sucks (because I don't use PTL, stealth, AT but rather daredevil and the like)".

Poe is really, REALLY good once you slap a regenOdroid on him. lategame, he's all but impossible to kill on a 1v1 level.

he works for me, he works for many people I've seen. play him to his strengths and maybe we can end this thread.

Truth be told, Poe has never been a good pilot.

He happened to perfectly fit into the Paul Heaver's core of TLT y + stressbot + bandit, and he was a decent second threat to Aide's Corran. But as a rebel regen ship he was behind either Miranda and Corran Horn who both had better survivability and punched harder.

Also, with BB-8 you are overpaying a fragile and not so manouvrable ace

Again, if that was true, why was he in almost every Rebel list for a while? One tournament I went to, I played 5 games, 4 of which had Poe in it and I was flying him as well. In those match ups, I only came across one Miranda and one Corran.

You faced lots of Poes because Heaver won worlds with him (beating another Poe list in the final, in which thought the pivot was Corran and the core was the double regen ships). So people were spamming him

And Poe was actually good in the Heaver's list, because he had another priority threat (the stressbot) to keep him safer and was also coupled with sure damage of another TLT y and had decent blocker in the Z. Poe is the only ship that fit that core while out pilot skilling, thanks to VI, every imperial ace.

Poe is a squishy small ship with very limited mobility. He can and he is often alphaed. He had an edge over Corran, despite being a worse 1v1ner than him, in a TLT heavy meta and because he's cheaper

I played against a lot of Poe before worlds(because he's probably the best ship in the starter set in a traditional sense) and he is quite resistant to 2-die attacks. He had a place, and was a good rebel regen ace. He's not as well suited to it as Corran who can double tap and run away to get his shields back, but he's still solid and is a bit better against some things. Miranda is a different animal entirely and is an absolute beast with c3po.

Even tank Poe is not invincible. I had a shield regen team Poe R5-P9, Miranda, and a Gold with R2-D2 and they all died during a single round of combat as they got focused down by 2 ATC and 3 TIE Fighters.

Even with the shield regen don't fly Poe into Arcs, your autothrusters would be useless there.

Truth be told, Poe has never been a good pilot.

He happened to perfectly fit into the Paul Heaver's core of TLT y + stressbot + bandit, and he was a decent second threat to Aide's Corran. But as a rebel regen ship he was behind either Miranda and Corran Horn who both had better survivability and punched harder.

Also, with BB-8 you are overpaying a fragile and not so manouvrable ace

Again, if that was true, why was he in almost every Rebel list for a while? One tournament I went to, I played 5 games, 4 of which had Poe in it and I was flying him as well. In those match ups, I only came across one Miranda and one Corran.

You faced lots of Poes because Heaver won worlds with him (beating another Poe list in the final, in which thought the pivot was Corran and the core was the double regen ships). So people were spamming him

And Poe was actually good in the Heaver's list, because he had another priority threat (the stressbot) to keep him safer and was also coupled with sure damage of another TLT y and had decent blocker in the Z. Poe is the only ship that fit that core while out pilot skilling, thanks to VI, every imperial ace.

Poe is a squishy small ship with very limited mobility. He can and he is often alphaed. He had an edge over Corran, despite being a worse 1v1ner than him, in a TLT heavy meta and because he's cheaper

My most successful lists have several threats (including Poe) that my opponents must choose which of my ships they need to kill first.

You call Poe fragile, but Corran is worse. Yes, he has one more green die, but Poe has a chance to modify every single defensive roll he has, unlike Corran. And if you are relaying on that third green die, talk to fickle as to why that's a bad idea. Corran also suffers from poor mobility and is also easily alphaed.

And finally, Poe being cheaper is a strength. For less points, you can have a tougher ace who is better equipped for turrets and who's ability is defensive and offensive. I won't deny Corran packs a bigger punch, but he's expensive and I prefer a more versatile pilot.

Poe does just fine. He isn't great against scouts, but in most other situations he will usually win out. This last wave hasn't been kind to him, but I think a lot of people tend to forget he was the dominant ship for a full year for rebels.

Six months is not a full year.

honestly, i dont know why people like poe over miranda. she just hits like a truck and can regen too.

Though, I have no idea why anyone flies corran at all. Someone tell me? He's PS8, barely has the econ efficiency for his 2 attacks plus defending, can easily be alphaed.... super expensive.

honestly, i dont know why people like poe over miranda. she just hits like a truck and can regen too.

Though, I have no idea why anyone flies corran at all. Someone tell me? He's PS8, barely has the econ efficiency for his 2 attacks plus defending, can easily be alphaed.... super expensive.

she Can't out-PS most imp aces, and couldn't chew through a ton of TLTs with reget+minifucos+autothruster every day.

Poe did, and in a meta swarming with PTLing PS8-9 vermin and TLT sticking out of every hole that can take it, he was the go-to guy

guess his time just passed >:]

Truth be told, Poe has never been a good pilot.

He happened to perfectly fit into the Paul Heaver's core of TLT y + stressbot + bandit, and he was a decent second threat to Aide's Corran. But as a rebel regen ship he was behind either Miranda and Corran Horn who both had better survivability and punched harder.

Also, with BB-8 you are overpaying a fragile and not so manouvrable ace

Again, if that was true, why was he in almost every Rebel list for a while? One tournament I went to, I played 5 games, 4 of which had Poe in it and I was flying him as well. In those match ups, I only came across one Miranda and one Corran.

You faced lots of Poes because Heaver won worlds with him (beating another Poe list in the final, in which thought the pivot was Corran and the core was the double regen ships). So people were spamming him

And Poe was actually good in the Heaver's list, because he had another priority threat (the stressbot) to keep him safer and was also coupled with sure damage of another TLT y and had decent blocker in the Z. Poe is the only ship that fit that core while out pilot skilling, thanks to VI, every imperial ace.

Poe is a squishy small ship with very limited mobility. He can and he is often alphaed. He had an edge over Corran, despite being a worse 1v1ner than him, in a TLT heavy meta and because he's cheaper

So, Heaver winning with Poe was...what, a fluke?

My most successful lists have several threats (including Poe) that my opponents must choose which of my ships they need to kill first.

You call Poe fragile, but Corran is worse. Yes, he has one more green die, but Poe has a chance to modify every single defensive roll he has, unlike Corran. And if you are relaying on that third green die, talk to fickle as to why that's a bad idea. Corran also suffers from poor mobility and is also easily alphaed.

And finally, Poe being cheaper is a strength. For less points, you can have a tougher ace who is better equipped for turrets and who's ability is defensive and offensive. I won't deny Corran packs a bigger punch, but he's expensive and I prefer a more versatile pilot.

Where did I say that? I've actually said the exact contrary: that Poe fit perfectly in the very good Heaver's list. I have also said that Poe strongest part is being cheaper than Corran (while he's on par with Miranda)

Corran has evade action, which is at least one sure damage mitigation, while Poe, outside range 3 (which isn't too scary for Corran either), is still totally dice dependant. Corran also have barrel roll instead of boost which outside TLT meta is a better repositionary tool.

Corran is easily alphaed too, but he can fit a proper Biggs list while Poe can't due his lower firepower (Corran shoots like 2 modified dice ships, Poe doesn't)

honestly, i dont know why people like poe over miranda. she just hits like a truck and can regen too.

Though, I have no idea why anyone flies corran at all. Someone tell me? He's PS8, barely has the econ efficiency for his 2 attacks plus defending, can easily be alphaed.... super expensive.

You fly Corran alongside with Biggs and another threat (R3A2 Wes) and people will cry. A lot.

I agree on Miranda over Poe

Din't forget last year's worlds was full of TLTs,or at least expected to be. Poe is excellent vs TLTs between regen, AT and his ability.

IIRC Paul Heaver said in some I terview this was one of the main reasons he picked Poe.

Poe's build and flying were likely suboptimal. Still, he should utilize BB-8 to try and knife fight you on your flanks. Also, you're underestimating how powerful your own Defender actually is (really, really powerful). Just because you had lower PS doesn't mean the fight is out of your favor.

Truth be told, Poe has never been a good pilot.

He happened to perfectly fit into the Paul Heaver's core of TLT y + stressbot + bandit, and he was a decent second threat to Aide's Corran. But as a rebel regen ship he was behind either Miranda and Corran Horn who both had better survivability and punched harder.

Also, with BB-8 you are overpaying a fragile and not so manouvrable ace

Again, if that was true, why was he in almost every Rebel list for a while? One tournament I went to, I played 5 games, 4 of which had Poe in it and I was flying him as well. In those match ups, I only came across one Miranda and one Corran.

You faced lots of Poes because Heaver won worlds with him (beating another Poe list in the final, in which thought the pivot was Corran and the core was the double regen ships). So people were spamming him

And Poe was actually good in the Heaver's list, because he had another priority threat (the stressbot) to keep him safer and was also coupled with sure damage of another TLT y and had decent blocker in the Z. Poe is the only ship that fit that core while out pilot skilling, thanks to VI, every imperial ace.

Poe is a squishy small ship with very limited mobility. He can and he is often alphaed. He had an edge over Corran, despite being a worse 1v1ner than him, in a TLT heavy meta and because he's cheaper

So, Heaver winning with Poe was...what, a fluke?

My most successful lists have several threats (including Poe) that my opponents must choose which of my ships they need to kill first.

You call Poe fragile, but Corran is worse. Yes, he has one more green die, but Poe has a chance to modify every single defensive roll he has, unlike Corran. And if you are relaying on that third green die, talk to fickle as to why that's a bad idea. Corran also suffers from poor mobility and is also easily alphaed.

And finally, Poe being cheaper is a strength. For less points, you can have a tougher ace who is better equipped for turrets and who's ability is defensive and offensive. I won't deny Corran packs a bigger punch, but he's expensive and I prefer a more versatile pilot.

Where did I say that? I've actually said the exact contrary: that Poe fit perfectly in the very good Heaver's list. I have also said that Poe strongest part is being cheaper than Corran (while he's on par with Miranda)

Corran has evade action, which is at least one sure damage mitigation, while Poe, outside range 3 (which isn't too scary for Corran either), is still totally dice dependant. Corran also have barrel roll instead of boost which outside TLT meta is a better repositionary tool.

Corran is easily alphaed too, but he can fit a proper Biggs list while Poe can't due his lower firepower (Corran shoots like 2 modified dice ships, Poe doesn't)

honestly, i dont know why people like poe over miranda. she just hits like a truck and can regen too.

Though, I have no idea why anyone flies corran at all. Someone tell me? He's PS8, barely has the econ efficiency for his 2 attacks plus defending, can easily be alphaed.... super expensive.

You fly Corran alongside with Biggs and another threat (R3A2 Wes) and people will cry. A lot.

I agree on Miranda over Poe

And I really don't get your point that Poe can't fit in proper with Biggs. If anything, Poe doesn't need Biggs as much as Corran. As I said before, his ability is both defensive and offensive. It has its limitations, but I've seen it turn the tide.

I'll grant you that there are harder hitting pilots, but that doesn't mean that Poe isn't good. Poe is a far more balanced pilot who can make a single action last all turn.

In my (limited) experience, I find the standard regen build a bit frustrating to fly. I like to be able to reposition and also focus - which needs PTL. But the X-Wing (either variety) lacks enough green manoeuvres to cope. If you don't focus, you can't use Poe's ability or R5P9. If you use R2D2 you become even more tied to green manoeuvres.

So, I'm currently favouring this:

Poe (PS9 version), PTL, R2 astromech, and Vectored Thrusters.

Is it going to be better in tournaments? I don't know, but I find it more fun for me.

So why is he bad everywhere else then in Heaver's list? You claim it's because target priority, which I said is a part of team building.

And I really don't get your point that Poe can't fit in proper with Biggs. If anything, Poe doesn't need Biggs as much as Corran. As I said before, his ability is both defensive and offensive. It has its limitations, but I've seen it turn the tide.

I'll grant you that there are harder hitting pilots, but that doesn't mean that Poe isn't good. Poe is a far more balanced pilot who can make a single action last all turn.

I don't think we could go further on the argument of who was better in the past: I find Poe lackluster and frail while preferring Miranda and Corran as regen aces and you seem to do the opposite.

The only thing I can add is that of them, the only one who actually won something and he's doing fine in this meta is Corran Horn

Poe was great in the TLT meta, but in the (current) alpha strike meta his defenses (including regen) get overpowered quickly so he's too fragile to see much play.

Poe was great in the TLT meta, but in the (current) alpha strike meta his defenses (including regen) get overpowered quickly so he's too fragile to see much play.

Yeah AT and high hit points work well against turrets but can't save you from 12 ordnance hits, at best hell stop three damage with his ability.

Even IA won't help in that situation.

Sometimes I wonder if the rebel aces with astromech slots could be competitive without their regen droids (I know some exist, but they are often paired with a regen). With their high cost (higher than empire counterparts) and lower agility, they really need to pull their weight, and that is why the regen is used. But there are many astromechs with interesting abilities that never see the table because of R2-D2 or R5-P9.

Could it actually be beneficial to have a naked Poe or Corran on the table, they do their thing for a round or 2(possibly more), they will be the primary target(unless biggs) so your other ships could really come into play, and with the extra points, one could field better support.

I might try it with some casual games to see, but I'm sure I'll never do it in a tournament setting.