the ARC was technically in REBELs (as wreckage, ie an accurate representation of what happens when you fly ARCs without Biggs)

they're flown by expanded universe pilots (of which at least Norra was in the OT)

Ventress might be a huge spoiler for season 3 of REBELs, i.e she's probably not as dead as we think

we'll probably be getting Clone War ships, but in the style of the ARC-170 (i.e, flown by not prequel pilots)

hell, the naboo starfighter already as 3 named pilots in canon (leia, shara; queen whatsherface of the **** eating grin)

I'm cool with FFG slippin' in as many Clone War era ships/pilots as they can. No wrong can be done- unless we get little orphan Anakin in the N-1...then that would be very wrong.

Yes... Ventress! with long flowing, sexy hair... [clears throat]

(I'll just head over to the off-topic forum with these kind of comments)

I'm not saying it. The rules as is are saying it.

The rules as is aren't saying anything: an autoinclude zero cost title is not meant to be not included. Lacking SpecOps training doesn't somehow power down the forward cannon on the TIE/sf.

So...you are saying that the rules aren't saying that the ARC-170 ship isn't a 2 attack die ship....before the Rebels overhaul it? Then what's the point of the Rebel Overhaul card and why is it called that? You say it's just a cheap mechanic to boost the forward guns? I say Rules As Written show the ARC-170 as a native 2 attack die ship until the Rebels overhaul it.

Wait....I'm confused as I didn't go read that whole dang thread and I don't understand your "non-canon" comment. Are you saying that Disney isn't distancing themselves from the prequels? Or they are? I'm not getting it from those comments you linked.

So...you are saying that the rules aren't saying that the ARC-170 ship isn't a 2 attack die ship....before the Rebels overhaul it? Then what's the point of the Rebel Overhaul card and why is it called that? You say it's just a cheap mechanic to boost the forward guns? I say Rules As Written show the ARC-170 as a native 2 attack die ship until the Rebels overhaul it.

ARC without the title is not a 2 attack ship, ARC without title simply doesn't exist, the title is glued to it, think of it as a reference card for bombs. Name of the title is just unfortunate if it implies that frontal and rear guns are identical.

Wait....I'm confused as I didn't go read that whole dang thread and I don't understand your "non-canon" comment. Are you saying that Disney isn't distancing themselves from the prequels? Or they are? I'm not getting it from those comments you linked.

Obviously Disney doesn't distance itslef from the prequels, and Pablo Hidalgo said to wait for Rebels Season 3 and Rogue One for some major prequel tie-ins.

I say ARC-170.....with the rules that we have now....say that it's only a 2 attack die ship, unless you take the Alliance Overhaul. That card would not be available to those in the Clone Wars. That is as the rules are written now. Maybe it's just a gimmick to work out the rules they want, but unless they came out with a separate game set with different stats, the Clone Wars guys would only get 2 attack dice.

Ah, thanks for the clarification for the Rebels thing.

FFG could make a game with the exact same mechanics as X-Wing, but forbid players to mix ships and cards from the CW game and X-Wing. This has the advantage that Anti-prequelists don't complain about CW stuff in X-Wing, we still have our awsome Geonosian starfighter and V-19 minifigures and that they don't need to worry about balancing issues, because of. all possible upgrades from X-Wing. I would also like a game similar to Imperial Assault in CW era and a SWTOR-RPG with this principle.

YariSamurai

By that logic they should restrict NT ships from TFA and forward, and on top of that, lock out EU Legends ships from Canon.

True though, the Seismic Charge is utterly underwhelming compared to its cinematic form.

Really? How many Seismic charges did Jango drop on Obi-Wan? They failed to do any damage, even against a pilot who didn't like flying. I imagine they are all flash and bang, designed to deter low-grade opponents like pirates. Once Jango realises he has an opponent in a military-grade craft on his tail, he switches to cannons and homing missiles.

Looks just list the card to me.

I say ARC-170.....with the rules that we have now....say that it's only a 2 attack die ship, unless you take the Alliance Overhaul. That card would not be available to those in the Clone Wars. That is as the rules are written now.

Actually, that's how fluff is written. Alliance Overhaul is 'ARC 170 only'not 'Rebel only' qhich means Clone Wars ARCs would be able to equip it just fine the way rules are written.

But clone,wars ARCs can't take overhaul

Because they don't exist

I say ARC-170.....with the rules that we have now....say that it's only a 2 attack die ship, unless you take the Alliance Overhaul. That card would not be available to those in the Clone Wars. That is as the rules are written now. Maybe it's just a gimmick to work out the rules they want, but unless they came out with a separate game set with different stats, the Clone Wars guys would only get 2 attack dice.

The ARC without it isn't meant to represent the Clone Wars variant: it's not meant to represent anything because it's not meant to be used : hence a free non-unique title to make the ARC act like an ARC. That's the mechanical reason anyway.

If a lore justification is what you need then I can do that too: it's all in the definition of Overhaul.

An overhaul is not an upgrade : it's when you completely dismantle something to fully repair and restore it. Alliance Overhaul represents Rebel efforts to restore the ARC-170 to its Clone Wars performance.

Removing Alliance Overhaul is undoing that overhaul but it isn't undoing 20 odd years of wear and deterioation. The battered and rusted forward guns are only operating at 66% of the firepower they once did and the motors in the tailgun are burned out and less accurate than they once were. Time has not been nice to these ARCs: if it had, they wouldn't need an overhaul. It makes sense too: the Empire's hardly going to be leaving pristine ARCs around for the Rebels to use: the only ones they can get their hands on are the ones that have been written off.

An ARC without an Alliance Overhaul doesn't represent the ARC as it was in its heyday: it represents the ARC as it was when the Rebels pulled it out of the scrapheap.

I say ARC-170.....with the rules that we have now....say that it's only a 2 attack die ship, unless you take the Alliance Overhaul. That card would not be available to those in the Clone Wars. That is as the rules are written now. Maybe it's just a gimmick to work out the rules they want, but unless they came out with a separate game set with different stats, the Clone Wars guys would only get 2 attack dice.

The ARC without it isn't meant to represent the Clone Wars variant: it's not meant to represent anything because it's not meant to be used : hence a free non-unique title to make the ARC act like an ARC. That's the mechanical reason anyway.

If a lore justification is what you need then I can do that too: it's all in the definition of Overhaul.

An overhaul is not an upgrade : it's when you completely dismantle something to fully repair and restore it. Alliance Overhaul represents Rebel efforts to restore the ARC-170 to its Clone Wars performance.

Removing Alliance Overhaul is undoing that overhaul but it isn't undoing 20 odd years of wear and deterioation. The battered and rusted forward guns are only operating at 66% of the firepower they once did and the motors in the tailgun are burned out and less accurate than they once were. Time has not been nice to these ARCs: if it had, they wouldn't need an overhaul. It makes sense too: the Empire's hardly going to be leaving pristine ARCs around for the Rebels to use: the only ones they can get their hands on are the ones that have been written off.

An ARC without an Alliance Overhaul doesn't represent the ARC as it was in its heyday: it represents the ARC as it was when the Rebels pulled it out of the scrapheap.

Hence why the Corporate Sector is primarily armed with Dreadnoughts, CIS cruisers and Republic Victory Star Destroyers.

I wouldn't mind Imperial V-Wings next.

But clone,wars ARCs can't take overhaul

Because they don't exist

Clone Wars Arcs run with the Grand Army of the Republic Title, which gives their main guns 4 attack dice. Cost 5 Points. ;-)

Besides, this is a theory about future FFG expansions and was not meant to be (no offense) another place for people to criticise the prequels again.

YariSamurai

You realize that was inevitable, right?

I would love to see prequel ships in the game, despite my lack of enthusiasm for the movies. The point is to add the ships to the game. OTOH, if they don't add much more, why produce the N-1 Fighter if it is no better than anything else.

Maybe they could include a Jar-Jar Binks crew card with no abilities that purchasers could tear up just after purchase.

I'm cool with FFG slippin' in as many Clone War era ships/pilots as they can. No wrong can be done- unless we get little orphan Anakin in the N-1...then that would be very wrong.

I don't know. . .it might be kinda crazy to have a PS1 pilot with some kinda super cool special ability to break the mold.

The arc had two medium cannons same as a tie fighter the clone wars era version would be two attack.

truth be told, while I really do not want stuff from the prequel movies, I'd be willing to stomach almost anything to get more ARCs to fly

I draw the line at Binks

I'll take "I'll try spinning; that's a neat trick!" over goddamn Binks (and at least I won't have to invest in VTs to roll!)

truth be told, while I really do not want stuff from the prequel movies, I'd be willing to stomach almost anything to get more ARCs to fly

I draw the line at Binks

I'll take "I'll try spinning; that's a neat trick!" over goddamn Binks (and at least I won't have to invest in VTs to roll!)

Binks, sounds like the prequel Biggs

And I mean this even seriously as he draws shots constantly in the prequels while taking tanks out with their own fire. Freaking force user he must be.

This isn't going to turn into Darth Jar Jar is it?

The arc had two medium cannons same as a tie fighter the clone wars era version would be two attack.

T-34/57 and T-72 should have the same attack value, they both are armed with a "tank gun".

The arc had two medium cannons same as a tie fighter the clone wars era version would be two attack.

T-34/57 and T-72 should have the same attack value, they both are armed with a "tank gun".

False equivalency fallacy.

The arc had two medium cannons same as a tie fighter the clone wars era version would be two attack.

T-34/57 and T-72 should have the same attack value, they both are armed with a "tank gun".

False equivalency fallacy.

The arc had two medium cannons same as a tie fighter the clone wars era version would be two attack.

T-34/57 and T-72 should have the same attack value, they both are armed with a "tank gun".

False equivalency fallacy.

I think that's the exact point he was making. The guns on the ARC and the guns on the TIE fighter aren't the same weapon by any stretch of the imagination. Futhermore, gun counting has been throughly debunked unless you five attack Decimators, Falcons and Lambdas flying around.

We have three classes of guns in star wars blasters, medium cannons and heavy cannons I've never seen any craft described as having small cannons.

So the tie ln has two medium cannons(2 atk), the interceptor has four medium cannons(3 atk) the arc has two medium cannons (2 atk) the x-wing has four medium cannons (3 atk).

This is not a new formula it's held true for nearly every ship bar the Ktfdescgg fighter, so it's a product of inductive reasoning to say the arc with two cannons would have the same damage as the tie which it does.

For all we know the upgrade is swapping two heavy cannons in place of the antique guns.

While I dont think the Prequel movies are great by any stretch - and I don't say that because I grew up with the Original, I say it because they're badly written, directed and horribly acted - I love the ship designs from those movies and would absolutely love to see more prequel era ships added to the game. Only prequel ships I didn't particularly care for were the Droid ships, and I'd still love to see those added to the game.

For variety's sake if nothing else.

People can't use the excuse that the Naboo Starfighters weren't around during the Rebellion, excuse anymore since Disney went and used them in the tie-in comics to Force Awakens, thus showing that ships from that era did survive and were still a force to be reckoned with.

I would love to see a Sith Infiltrator added to the game as well and the Jedi Starfigthers, both the Arrowhead ones from the Attack of the Clones and the ones from Revenge of the Sith.

I think using the dislike for the Prequels as a reason for not having or not wanting these awesome ass ships, is a pretty sh*tty excuse in the long run really.

This is not a new formula it's held true for nearly every ship bar the Ktfdescgg fighter

We have three classes of guns in star wars blasters, medium cannons and heavy cannons I've never seen any craft described as having small cannons.

note not a prequel bomb

because if it's supposed to be THAT, I want my ******* money back

In the silly 100 point ace wing thing this ship is considered to suck... and there in the stupid-place; yeah it does suck now-a-daze.

Oh EPIC PLAY... Dat G-G-GLOR-REEeee!

We have three classes of guns in star wars blasters, medium cannons and heavy cannons I've never seen any craft described as having small cannons.

Edge of Empire, second edition, Page 258 Z-95-AF4 Weapons: Wingtip Mounted Light Laser Cannons.

Not that the attack dice would represent the weapon strength alone, bringing them on target and the ability to actually hit something with them is part of that dice number too. The Phantom does not have heavier weapons than the interceptor either and just one gun more. The Alpha-3 Nimbus comes as well with twin-lights. And the E-Wing is triple mediums.