Does this mean, with 3 hulldamage you could deal 3 faceup crits ? There's nothing that would prevent this right ?

Does this mean, with 3 hulldamage you could deal 3 faceup crits ? There's nothing that would prevent this right ?

Sure there is. You're not thinking literally enough.

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The First Damage Card is Face up.

The First two Damage Cards are Face up.

So the First Damage Card is Face up, Twice, which does nothing.

So there's only 2 Face up Damage card.

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BUT, that being said, its already being argued in a different thread, and it degenerated to nothingness, so its one of the things we're waiting on FAQ for... Just... Leave it at that, for everyone's sake

The Discussion is here, by the way:


https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/223760-xx9defaultfire-control-team-discussion/

With a few ships you can add APT + XX-9 and trigger both.

And you avoid the discussion already mentioned by Dras.

ABANDON THREAD

Yeah I don't know how many "First Cards" people think they are drawing from the deck. First is first. No argument.

NOPE

If a ship has Fire Control Team, ACMs and XX9s and shoots into the nose of a ship with 2 shields on the front and no side shields. It rolls a black hit/crit and a blue crit and this gets braced down to 2 damage.

Without critical effects the 2 crits would hit the front shield and nothing gets through. If the ACMs kick in first, doing side damage that goes onto the hull can the XX9s use those damage via the blue crit to make both the ACM overflow damage face up?

No.

For starters, it's very unlikely that you'll need two separate crit results to trigger two critical effects.

Secondly, the two crits resolve at different times, and each one would fully resolve before the other one would start to resolve. In this case, ACM damage would hit right away. Then Brace/Redirect would kick in (if applicable) then, as you are drawing damage cards from the attack, you would flip them face up as appropriate - but if no damage cards are drawn at this point, then the critical effect that you resolved just doesn't do anything.

What happens if the second crit effect is the first as the first one? Is that card discarded or just be treated as a normal hit?

For the XX-9 Turbolasers to have an effect you need so score 2 hits to the hull - while at least one of them is a crit.

For the Fire Control Team to trigger you need only one hit to the hull, which must be a crit - and then a seond faceup damage card is assigned.

Is this correct?

You don't need to hit the hull to activate a critical effect.

Its just that you need to be dealing damage cards to have XX-9s and the default to work...At all.

But theoretically, if you had a ship with an Ion and an Ordnance slot, then you could resolve an Ion Cannon Crit and an Ordnance crit, on a ship with full shields, if you rolled the appropriate critical hit symbols...

I mean, that assumes the Ion Cannon is (Blue) Crit and the Ordnance is (Black) Crit... If they were theoretical cards that just had Crit: You'd only need one symbol. One symbol is all it takes.

Fire Control Teams is letting you resolve a second Critical hit...

Now, until we get more and more cards that allow it, we're going to be looking at situations like this:


I have a Gladiator with APTs and Fire Control Team.

Its a Demolisher, because, heck-yeah.

Demolisher goes and does what Demolisher does....

Which means its probably rolling stupid amounts of Black Dice - We'll say it rolls 5 Blacks, get a bunch of Hits, and one Hit/Crit. No Blanks.

This means that, assuming the Enemy goes and Spends all of his Defense TOkens allowe d(which is probably a Brace and a Redirect, barring other Shenanigans), we're looking at:

At the Start of the Damage Phase, I have a Black Crit (on the Hit/Crit) Die, so I deal a Face up Damage Card to the Enemy due to APTs. Boom. I also activate the Default Critical Effect. But that does nothing, yet .

NOW, I go through the Rest of the Damage Phase... Which totals up the Damage to 6... Assuming they Braced it, its 3... Now they can Redirect... BUT, if I do a single point of Damage to the Hull during this stage, THEN the Default Critical Effect will go off.

End Result? 2 Face up damage cards.

If say, things wer emore perfect, and they have no Brace Redirect, and I'm an MC30 with XX9s at the same time...

I'd be dealing 1 Face up damage card immediately at the start of the Calculate Damage Step, and , if I managed to get hull damage through the first two of those would be face up, for a potential net of 3.

You don't need to hit the hull to activate a critical effect.

Its just that you need to be dealing damage cards to have XX-9s and the default to work...At all.

But theoretically, if you had a ship with an Ion and an Ordnance slot, then you could resolve an Ion Cannon Crit and an Ordnance crit, on a ship with full shields, if you rolled the appropriate critical hit symbols...

I mean, that assumes the Ion Cannon is (Blue) Crit and the Ordnance is (Black) Crit... If they were theoretical cards that just had Crit: You'd only need one symbol. One symbol is all it takes.

Unless you hit the hull you can't deal crits with XX-9 and Fire Control Team, no matter if you trigger a crit effect, right?

With APT you don't need to hit the hull, right?

Does APT + Fire Control Team result in 2 faceup damage cards, right through the shields?

Fire Control Team doesn't deal crits at all.

There is no Crit assigned with Fire Control Team.

Fire Control Team just lets you activate two , when normally, you only get to activate one .

Ah now I get it! With Fire Control Team you could activate 2 DIFFERENT critical effects....

I was stumped. Now it makes some sense.

Yeah I don't know how many "First Cards" people think they are drawing from the deck. First is first. No argument.

Clearly not a lawyer.

Clearly not a lawyer.

Lawyers are the Larval stages of Politicians, and I would wish that fate on no-one.

I like fire teams on a GSD, pop acm on there and if you punch thru their shields you still get to score a face up damage

A key problem is that the game isn't clear as to whether or not cats dealt as a result of critical effects count for purposes of determining which card was dealt first, or if it matters, or if it's counted separately. So it's unclear if APTs would override the standard effect or XX9s.

Are you sure you can't deal 3 Faceup damage cards? Read this little paragraph from the Liberty preview article:

"Even though your Fire-Control Team will not allow you to resolve the same critical effect twice, you can potentially force an opponent to suffer as many as three faceup damage cards by equipping a Fire-Control Team on the same ship as your XX-9 Turbolasers."

I know the first damage card can only be dealt once but it looks like the developers had the idea that you could trigger XX-9'S and the standard critical effect when using Fireteams for a total of 3 Faceups. Just thought I'd point this out.

EDIT: link to the article: https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/6/29/the-liberty/

We are well aware.

Articles posted like that are of questionable use. If you were to consider what they said, then way back when the MC30 was Released, you could evade four Dice with Foresight in one attack, as it showed you spending two Evade Tokens on the same Attack.

Ergo, propoganda articles are not taken as any form of consent in the Rules Forum... Because they have been patently wrong in the past.

Can I check:

So if I had ACM and XX-9's and hit my opponents front shield which has 2 shields and the sides have 0. I hit for 4 damage with one black critical and my opponent braces. My opponent braces during the defensive step and when we get to the resolve damage step I would do the following in order:

1. Exhaust Fire-Control Team

2. Activate the XX-9's

3. Play the ACM effect at this point the two hull damage is dealt and I would deal two face up cards as the XX-9s are active

3a. IF a critical effect is drawn that alters the front shields of the ship that would resolve

4a. I deal 1 damage to the front of the ship

4b. I deal 1 damage to the front of the ship

I put this down as 4a/b as damage is supposed to be dealt a card at a time and it highlights that the brace may not be sufficient to prevent all the damage. Most people tend to just play it all out as a convenience.

This is what we're waiting to resolve via FAQ, basically...

Is the Critical Effect Damage, In this case, the damage immediately to the adjacent zones, part of the "Critical Effect", or part of the "Attack".

If it is part of the Critical effect, then XX9s would do nothing until you dealt damage to the Hull after determining your Damage amount after the critical effect.

If its part of the Attack, then there's a whole other set of can of worms opened in regards to things, and changing the way the game and critical effects play for most people. For example:

XX9s would, if the first (and only) damage card drawn was structural damage, have the second card Face up as well... Even though you onlt did 1 damage to the hull...

XX9s and APTs would ahve counter-synergy, as the Damage Card face up from APTs would count as the first Damage Card face up from the attack, so only 1 more would be face up...

Thusly, APTs and the Default Critical would have no effect, as again, the first damage card was already face up...

Plus, things like Luke Skywalker drawing a Projector Misaligned critical on his bombing dice and doing nothing because the ship already counts as it has no shields on his attack......... >.> (Yes, its a Technicality. We're going for technically correct with this Hyperbole, after all...)

So....

Yeah. Its a Can of Worms.

Personally, I'm not buying it. But there are people out there who are arguing it... Wether or not its serious or for arguments.

I believe that Critical Damage is encapsulated itself in critical damage, and does not directly count as attack damage - MOSTLY because it super-overcomplicates a bunch of reactions and interactions between rules, and frankly, makes a further mess of what is already fairly contentious.