This seems poorly designed and it tends to swing games. Important, powerful figures tend to be the ones that have a white die, and it punishes lists figures/lists that make fewer big swings instead of multiple smaller swings.

I'm fine with C-3PO and R2-D2 and officers having them, they're just support units, whatever. But when you get a decent roll against Bossk and he X-Mans and then he activates and drops 8 hits into you that's kind of a load of ****.

I understand what they were going for, have weaker white dice that can occasionally spike and dodge everything, and more consistent black dice that block always block something. But couldn't the X-Man have been a quad block and a surge cancel or something? Something that's still very strong defensively but can be punched through?

When I play this game, I've started referring to white dice as "one out of sixes" or "one out of threes" if I have cower or R2-D2's lucky ability.

Play things that force rerolls on defense dice, or remove Dodge results, and choose your targets carefully. It doesn't happen that often anyway.

It's frustrating, but odds are it only happens 1/6 times. I do like eliminating the risk, and there are times I go for a gimme shot where I know I can take out a black die figure instead of "wasting" my shot on a white die figure.

Several command cards can help with this and there are more coming out, which I think will help balance this. I don't know that there is a fix, every game that has a dice mechanic has an element of randomness.

If you're finding that you crack up against white defence dice a lot in your (I'm assuming) Skirmish matches, then you should really invest in some mitigation abilities, of which there are a few that put the dreaded X-Man on notice;

HK's

Elite ISB's

"Lock On"

"Tough Luck"
"Element of Surprise"

There are probably others that aren't coming to me right now. Back to the topic at hand;

If you're beating your head against the wall vs white dice, then you need to consider teching against the meta at your events and implement one or more of those points I listed above. Do you know how amazing it is when you're opponent tries to bug out with his wounded Luke and you Element of Surprise a Hidden Elite Heavy Stormtrooper around the corner and vaporize Luke while they're powerless to stop you?! It's a great moment when you can actually see your opponent's face melt like that dude at the end of Raiders of the Lost Ark.

It's also even funnier if you combo that with Jump Jets, but a Nexu with Element of Surprise can just as easily come out of nowhere and swipe out a key White Die unit.

Seriously, it's not "that bad" that it's nigh impossible. Perhaps in the Core Set meta, when those overpowered Sabs were running buck-wild in the field, but there are enough tools to slot an answer for that into your list.

No pervasive silver bullets, as that would take the character of the white die away, but having access to that one clutch surprise when you can just zero out a valuable White Die unit is pretty fair. On average, they shouldn't be pulling X-Man every roll with any given unit, so it's probably your bad luck or a confirmation bias at work.

Try the above ideas and compare results.

It's frustrating, but odds are it only happens 1/6 times. I do like eliminating the risk, and there are times I go for a gimme shot where I know I can take out a black die figure instead of "wasting" my shot on a white die figure.

Several command cards can help with this and there are more coming out, which I think will help balance this. I don't know that there is a fix, every game that has a dice mechanic has an element of randomness.

Yeah, but the ability to just one out six something at a crucial moment makes variance have a much greater impact than attacks against black dice figures.

I'm aware of HK droids, the Lock On command card, and can't (elite) ISB's cancel x-men also? It's just that not every list I make has them in it because I don't own those figures.

It's not that it's unbalanced, it's irritating and swingy. Sometimes I will win a game because I X-Manned at a crucial spot and it will frustrate my opponent.

It is supposed to be annoying. In the campaign, the more sweet it is when you defeat a hero in 2 attacks.

There is 1/6 chance you get a blank as well. The black die comes up with 2 blocks a lot as well. More attacks is a counter to the white die, better attacks is the counter for the black die.

I agree the railroad crossing can be frustrating, but as A1bert said, so can your hero rolling two blanks in a row and being wounded in one attack. I'm more concerned that too many units will have a way to mitigate, to the point people with white dice are handicapped by having a white dice. Most white dice characters have less hit points than black dice characters, at least uniques.

You have to remember that there are times when rolling 3 blocks on a black die will result in 0 damage as well, though this is only likely to happen for weak attacks.

So, as others have said, for the most reliable results: use few, large attacks against black dice and many, small attacks vs white dice. You have to accept the long-term probabilities, and not get hung up on the results from a single roll or even a single game.

Alternatively, of course, you can just run ISBs and the Inquisitor, which gives you loads of Pierce for black dice and "Deadly" for white dice. Your opponents might as well not roll defense dice at all

Alternatively, of course, you can just run ISBs and the Inquisitor, which gives you loads of Pierce for black dice and "Deadly" for white dice. Your opponents might as well not roll defense dice at all

Thank you captioning the major problem of most miniature skirmish games. The lack of any substantive choice. Sooner or later units emerge that are the only ones anyone is going to use, because you can't win otherwise. It gets to the point where you are watching a bunch of mirror matches and may as well be playing Chess. It is why I've been meh about IA's skirmish and had much more fun playing the campaigns, but even they suffer from the skirmish meta.

Have...you even bothered to look at the meta for the last eight months or so? There are lists winning and/or doing well at Regionals and Nationals that -I- can't understand how, and I don't have an irrationally negative bias on the Skirmish game balance!

The Skirmish meta has only improved over time (in leaps and bounds), rather than stagnating.

Agreed with Indy, very varied meta atm, top 4 at uk nationals were all completely different lists, with loads of variation in the top 8.

Sorin

Blaise

Bossk

Obi Wan

All in separate lists in the top 4

Dodge is the single most annoying and frustrating thing in the game, by far.

The white die is already generally better than the black, side for side.

Dodge > 3 block

Block/Evade is effectively 3 block against a lot of commonly used figures, like elite stormtroopers. So the two sides of this are equal or better than the two 2 block on the black die.

Evade and single block are on both dice.

Finally, there is an extra 1 block on the black vs blank on the white. Only a difference of 1 damage, so not that much of a difference really.

You almost always want to be rolling a white die.

I would be much happier if there were ways to play around Dodge without needing to draw the right cards. You also only get 1 copy of Element of Surprise.

For example, if Dodge was effectively an evade when adjacent, that would present a good tradeoff. You could risk getting close to improve your odds of damage.

It's just so unbelievably stupid that you can be in a situation where you're pretty much guaranteed to win, but then your opponent dodges 3 times and you lose.

The dice already present enough variance (more than I like) in this game without Dodge. You can easily attack and do 5 damage or 0 depending on the rolls.

Dodge is dodge, it's part of the game always has been, always will be - I'm not too sure what the problem is.

I think it makes for great player experiences for both players - it adds to the excitement.

I certainly don't think it's as easy as saying "The white die is better than the black die", because white die figures almost always have less health, and whilst they'll sometimes roll a Dodge and inexplicably live, they are just as likely to roll a blank and inexplicably die.

As others have said there's many tools in the game (cards, figures, abilities, playstyles) to combat the white die.

Huh. I prefer the black die--but not because I think it's inherently better. The white die is just too swingy; certainly fun for casual games (the first campaign I ran had one mission where Diala, using three strain-rerolls, rolled the Dodge for five out of six attacks against her), but unreliable in the long-term.

I -know- that in a tournament, where I can anticipate playing at least three games, and likely six or more for the 'important' tournaments, the Fickle Green Dic--errr, that is, the white die *will* betray me at key moments.

Your analysis is also a little off; there are many effective figures--Elite Troopers included--that have a reasonably high chance of not rolling any surges at all. If no surges are rolled, then the white die becomes two sides blank, three sides single block, and one side dodge. I know I'd prefer the black die in that scenario! (Unless my defender is at like one health, for obvious reasons.) --There's also the potential for Troopers to reroll out of a surge into additional damage, after seeing that the defender has rolled a block/evade.

It may just be a personal preference, but I would much rather use the black die. Much less swingy, which means I can better predict its effects over multiple games.

Dodging three times in a row has a probably of <0.5%. People are going to remember it when it happens--but how many thousands of die rolls do they make to get there? (Now, if that should happen to me at Worlds in November, I will of course have to restrain a certain amount of table-flip frustration...; )

I think the frustrating thing are Rebel vs. Rebel encounters, especialy if both are hero lists. 3-dice attacks on both sides mean that a rolled x really hurts. Imperials tend to have a lot of attacks while Scum does have quite some ways to deal unmitigated damage, so the x-man might be frustrating, but in most cases it's like a 3-block.

There are already ways to get around the white die, but I think the x-men is actually largely psychological, because it feels like you don't have control. You just could have a bad damage roll and it would be the same result. Usually, people calculate their chances to roll surges because they need this Cleave or Explosion, they calculate their range and then are surprised if there is this X-men. Probability of failure is part of the strategy in games like this. You do have to think about what you do if your action fails, or play a list that mitigates luck.

Agreed with Indy, very varied meta atm, top 4 at uk nationals were all completely different lists, with loads of variation in the top 8.

Sorin

Blaise

Bossk

Obi Wan

All in separate lists in the top 4

I'd love to see those lists, especially Sorin!

I gotta agree with OP.

I think that a 1 in 6 chance of completely ignoring an attack is way too powerful.

I think that the only way to fix this problem is to errata the dice so that when you roll an X, you have to reroll and only then will an X count. 1 in 36 sounds about right.

And while we're at it, I feel the red dice does too much damage. Way to powerful!!!

:Eyeroll:

Black die is more consistent, and in a dice game, consistency is key. The white die often does very little. One block and/or one evade so often lead to a figure's death, while the black has a 50% chance for at least 2. It has one side that cancels the attack, assuming you can't modify it (which is common now), and one side that has no effect. Equal chance to do everything or nothing, and a majority chance to do very little.

In general, the black die is preferable, with some specific exceptions. I will definitely say however that in most lists I play, my damage dealers have a way to strip that Dodge if needed.

Wow, 1 in 36? That would sideline all rebel lists essentially. Their health and abilities are balanced with the potential dodge in mind. Playing against them will be swingy, but for me that fits the Star Wars theme. I understand it's frustrating, but it also adds to the excitement.

Ultimately, there's no getting around this. Players are going to either like or hate this feature of the game. It doesn't bother me, but then again I tend to play Rebels :-). That's one reason why pool play is an important part of the tournament structure. Luck (in the form of the cards you draw and your dice) will swing a few games one way or the other.

-ryanjamal

Black die is more consistent, and in a dice game, consistency is key. The white die often does very little. One block and/or one evade so often lead to a figure's death, while the black has a 50% chance for at least 2. It has one side that cancels the attack, assuming you can't modify it (which is common now), and one side that has no effect. Equal chance to do everything or nothing, and a majority chance to do very little.

In general, the black die is preferable, with some specific exceptions. I will definitely say however that in most lists I play, my damage dealers have a way to strip that Dodge if needed.

If you go for consistent, then you remove the point of having dice in the first place. Its about the random chance, and you figure that into the attack.

For example in the campaign, the rebels quickly learnt that focus attacking on an officer if he was next to somebody else was a big mistake... in one game, the elite officer survived 2 rounds of focused attacks, because if he didn't roll dodge the first time, there was a good chance he'd roll a dodge on the re-roll. Once they took care of his hired gun bodyguard, he died pretty quickly.

Black die is more consistent, and in a dice game, consistency is key. The white die often does very little. One block and/or one evade so often lead to a figure's death, while the black has a 50% chance for at least 2. It has one side that cancels the attack, assuming you can't modify it (which is common now), and one side that has no effect. Equal chance to do everything or nothing, and a majority chance to do very little.

In general, the black die is preferable, with some specific exceptions. I will definitely say however that in most lists I play, my damage dealers have a way to strip that Dodge if needed.

If you go for consistent, then you remove the point of having dice in the first place. Its about the random chance, and you figure that into the attack.

For example in the campaign, the rebels quickly learnt that focus attacking on an officer if he was next to somebody else was a big mistake... in one game, the elite officer survived 2 rounds of focused attacks, because if he didn't roll dodge the first time, there was a good chance he'd roll a dodge on the re-roll. Once they took care of his hired gun bodyguard, he died pretty quickly.

That's the move. You clear the one offering the protection first. You always need to choose your targets carefully based on the attacking figure and the circumstances.

I've played a few campaigns, but as a primarily skirmish player, in most situations, I'd rather have a black for defense and shoot at targets with white dice.

Black die is more consistent, and in a dice game, consistency is key. The white die often does very little. One block and/or one evade so often lead to a figure's death, while the black has a 50% chance for at least 2. It has one side that cancels the attack, assuming you can't modify it (which is common now), and one side that has no effect. Equal chance to do everything or nothing, and a majority chance to do very little.

In general, the black die is preferable, with some specific exceptions. I will definitely say however that in most lists I play, my damage dealers have a way to strip that Dodge if needed.

If you go for consistent, then you remove the point of having dice in the first place. Its about the random chance, and you figure that into the attack.

For example in the campaign, the rebels quickly learnt that focus attacking on an officer if he was next to somebody else was a big mistake... in one game, the elite officer survived 2 rounds of focused attacks, because if he didn't roll dodge the first time, there was a good chance he'd roll a dodge on the re-roll. Once they took care of his hired gun bodyguard, he died pretty quickly.

That's the move. You clear the one offering the protection first. You always need to choose your targets carefully based on the attacking figure and the circumstances.

I've played a few campaigns, but as a primarily skirmish player, in most situations, I'd rather have a black for defense and shoot at targets with white dice.

They got blinded by the objectives - it was a mission where the officers had to destroy rebel terminals, so they were tying everything possible to get rid of the officer, and they were intimidated by the hired gun's parting shot... they thought they'd one-shot kill the officer and then move on to the others...

But yeah, for skirmish, there's already plenty of ways to either negate the dodge, or bypass the defense entirely (like Vader's force choke).

Alternatively, of course, you can just run ISBs and the Inquisitor, which gives you loads of Pierce for black dice and "Deadly" for white dice. Your opponents might as well not roll defense dice at all

Thank you captioning the major problem of most miniature skirmish games. The lack of any substantive choice. Sooner or later units emerge that are the only ones anyone is going to use, because you can't win otherwise. It gets to the point where you are watching a bunch of mirror matches and may as well be playing Chess. It is why I've been meh about IA's skirmish and had much more fun playing the campaigns, but even they suffer from the skirmish meta.

I wasn't really serious about using this list - I've never tried it before, so t might be good but I don't know. I'm sure it has some weaknesses - Banthas probably being one of them.

Wow, 1 in 36? That would sideline all rebel lists essentially. Their health and abilities are balanced with the potential dodge in mind. Playing against them will be swingy, but for me that fits the Star Wars theme. I understand it's frustrating, but it also adds to the excitement.

Ultimately, there's no getting around this. Players are going to either like or hate this feature of the game. It doesn't bother me, but then again I tend to play Rebels :-). That's one reason why pool play is an important part of the tournament structure. Luck (in the form of the cards you draw and your dice) will swing a few games one way or the other.

-ryanjamal

The 1/36 line was a joke...

Ha ha, sorry. I apparently only read half of your post...

-ryanjamal