Ok so, I'm not sure if I'm reading the talent Bypass Security correct or not, and I'm not sure if the devs ever clarified this subject.

So, Bypass Security, do the ranks you have in that apply to the direct slicing check, or just on all the various defenses that a mainframe might have?

Example:

You and your young, elite slicing buddies, are Slicing the Gibson, you all have equal ranks in Computer, but one of your group has a LOT of ranks in Bypass Security, and the rest of you either don't have any, or not as many as her.

How would this play out in a roll? Would there be a separate check for actually Bypassing the Security? "Ok, so you have to first get through their firewall system, make a roll" and then "ok, you made it through their firewall system, make a roll to actually slice the system" ??

Or would it be more like Option 2:

"Ok, so they have a really strong firewall system, and lots of ICE, so that's 3 setback dice on your Computer check to try and get into the system" "Sweet! I have ranks in Bypass Security, so I can ignore those setback dice!"

Any thoughts on how to interpret this? Because when I read it, my brain just keeps making it seem like it's not actually that useful for the actual slicing check itself.

I think it's left for a GM to interpret with what is actually being attempted.

In Special Modifications, there is a slicing action called "Disable Security Program". I would think it applies to that action, and only that action, if you're running a slicing encounter.

The EotE CRB came out long before Special Modifications so I expect it didn't have slicing encounters in mind (I could be wrong and they knew what they would eventually release but I doubt it). The talent seems to be written as something that would pick electronic locks, disable cameras and alarms, generally burglary type stuff for a techie. But it does fit with the Disable Security Program action to me. (Technically the talent specifies a "device", not a program, but I think it fits).

I think it's left for a GM to interpret with what is actually being attempted.

Well yes, obviously the GM has final say, I'm asking what the RAW is intending, because the wording is a bit nebulous, given the subject matter.

That's what the RAW is intending. They're very precise with language in their rules, even when they're ambiguous, that's what they're going for. To try and spell out what every application of every Talent in every conceivable roll would quickly become burdensome and contradictory.

The talent removes setback dice when attempting to "disable a security device or open a door."

Setting the stage: you've gotta consider that computer systems in Star Wars are rarely huge networked banks of information; they are usually localized systems that do things like control doors and activate alarm systems. Star Wars ain't a cyberpunk system, and its technology is, in some ways, much more limited than what we have today. (Remember, this is a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... ) As such, slicing usually will require that you be in a specific place. You can't just sit somewhere offsite and wirelessly hack into a building's computer network. You've gotta go to the building, and it might have a centralized or decentralized security system, but in most cases you've gotta get physical access to the thing to actually slice it.

How this would play out in a group full of slicers? First off, a group of all-slicer characters would be challenging to run (to say the least). But if, for some reason, I was absent-minded enough to allow my players to create such a group of PCs, I would then present them with skillful challenges that keyed off other skills. Like, this security alarm system has three tiers you've gotta get through. Or, you're trying to get through the door while your comrades try to keep bad guys off of you. In either of those cases, bypass security would apply. If you're trying to get through software encryption or sift through mounds of data to download certain plans for a certain battlestation, on the other hand, Bypass Security would probably not apply.

Or, let's say three of you have to be in different locations and all succeed at a Computers check at the same time, while the fourth person has to have crawled through the air ducts and needs to be ready for the fans to go off, the motion sensing alarm to be disabled, and the electric death field shut off, before he grabs the macguffin—what could go wrong? And to make matters worse, you've got an automatic anti-slicer droid trying to boot you out of the system. Turning off the fans has nothing to do with Bypassing Security. No setback dice removal for you. But motion-sensing alarms and death fields? Those both sound like security devices to me. Bypass that Security.

Setting the stage: you've gotta consider that computer systems in Star Wars are rarely huge networked banks of information; they are usually localized systems that do things like control doors and activate alarm systems. Star Wars ain't a cyberpunk system, and its technology is, in some ways, much more limited than what we have today. (Remember, this is a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away... ) As such, slicing usually will require that you be in a specific place. You can't just sit somewhere offsite and wirelessly hack into a building's computer network. You've gotta go to the building, and it might have a centralized or decentralized security system, but in most cases you've gotta get physical access to the thing to actually slice it.

The Star Wars universe even has a sort of Internet with the HoloNet, at least in Legends. In canon it seems to mostly be a news broadcast system but other sources have treated it more like the World Wide Web (Galaxy Wide Web?) so it could optionally be used that way in different campaigns. My GM uses it that way. You figure the Empire needs some kind of shared information system to keep things running even if it's not available to civilians (without hacking into it) and there are likely smaller networks used on the more civilized planets and/or sectors.

The tech level actually went up as we moved forward in real time even though we traveled back in time within the storyline. The point being I don't feel as though Star Wars was ever leading edge futurist scifi, but I don't feel it has a self imposed non negotiable series of tech constraints either. I'd never judge with absolute certainty what's possible within the genre technically. I think Rogue 1 is going to illuminate this a bit with how the plans are stolen and what form they're in. The tech in Star Wars has advanced as we have even if the chronology didn't.

The tech level actually went up as we moved forward in real time even though we traveled back in time within the storyline. The point being I don't feel as though Star Wars was ever leading edge futurist scifi, but I don't feel it has a self imposed non negotiable series of tech constraints either. I'd never judge with absolute certainty what's possible within the genre technically. I think Rogue 1 is going to illuminate this a bit with how the plans are stolen and what form they're in. The tech in Star Wars has advanced as we have even if the chronology didn't.

Great point and I meant to mention it (though I maybe rambled enough as it was), Star Wars was released originally in 1977 and much of the technology didn't anticipate what we'd have almost 40 years later. Those sorts of things have trickled in here and there.

With Special Modifications, it pretty much is cyberpunk. You don't have only stand-alone systems, you have (and I quote) "regional HoloNet hubs or other local networks with multiple access points". And you have hacker vs hacker combat as people from two different consoles on a network try to outwit each other. We played one of these slicing encounters recently (which happened simultaneously with a standard combat) and it felt a bit like playing Deckers in Shadowrun. Of course you can dispense with all of that stuff in your campaign but FFG has established the network hacker stuff with that supplement.

IMO, that’s all fine when we talk about lower-grade security systems that are actually connected to the “Internet”, but higher-grade systems would be air-gapped.

Once they’re air-gapped, you’re back to the same old problem of having to get direct access to a console or terminal port somewhere that is hard-wired to the system you’re trying to attack.

Since the Star Wars galaxy is so **** bloody huge, I think there’s plenty of room for both of those styles to co-exist, and everything in-between.

The running joke in my game is that the Empire doesn't give a womp rat's buttocks about workplace safety, but they are all about the infosec. Hence, no railings on bridges over gigantic pits, and no general purpose networked computers.

With Special Modifications, it pretty much is cyberpunk. You don't have only stand-alone systems, you have (and I quote) "regional HoloNet hubs or other local networks with multiple access points". And you have hacker vs hacker combat as people from two different consoles on a network try to outwit each other. We played one of these slicing encounters recently (which happened simultaneously with a standard combat) and it felt a bit like playing Deckers in Shadowrun. Of course you can dispense with all of that stuff in your campaign but FFG has established the network hacker stuff with that supplement.

The Star Wars universe even has a sort of Internet with the HoloNet, at least in Legends. In canon it seems to mostly be a news broadcast system but other sources have treated it more like the World Wide Web (Galaxy Wide Web?) so it could optionally be used that way in different campaigns. My GM uses it that way. You figure the Empire needs some kind of shared information system to keep things running even if it's not available to civilians (without hacking into it) and there are likely smaller networks used on the more civilized planets and/or sectors.

Putting your quote in context, you'll see that Special Modifications agrees with what I said earlier: "Generally, characters need direct access to a computer system to slice it. In some cases, certain systems might be accessible via..." and then it picks up with your quote. Networked systems are the exception, although of course they do exist.

It makes sense that, on some worlds, some computer systems will be connected with each other on a literal "world wide web." But that would be the exception. Closed systems are the norm, and as bradknowles points out, it just makes good sense for security purposes to not allow outside access to your sensitive stuff. Even security systems in today's world are generally closed systems. You can't just hack into the security system for a given establishment without physically tapping into the wiring first.

Perhaps part of an adventure might involve "staking out" a particular user, waiting for them to connect to the HoloNet or a local network with their personal computer device. And then somehow getting them to stay on long enough to do whatever you need to do. That would actually be really fun.

Slicer vs. slicer combat is awesome, and should be encouraged. And it's been around since the beginning in this system (with the Defensive Slicing talent). And, as far as I know, every iteration of Star Wars RPG. But again, IMO, what can be accomplished through computer systems should be limited to what is appropriate for the setting. Special Modifications does an excellent job of grounding things in the Star Wars mythos.

The HoloNet is canon, has been since at least the days of The Clone Wars . But the HoloNet is not quite like the Internet...just like blasters are not quite like our modern-day laser guns. I think the main difference is that HoloNet a centralized communications grid, rather than a web of interconnected computers...more of an extranet than an internet. Can you imagine an Evil Empire that would allow a free internet? Anyways, in both Legends and the newer canon material, The Galactic Empire maintains direct control over the HoloNet, and uses it as a platform for propaganda, as you say.

GMs are of course permitted to run the game as they see fit. I just know that, since anything Computer-related is generally performed with a single skill (that being Computers ), I don't want my Computer-focused characters to become all-powerful with just a few keystrokes. And that is the risk you run when you treat everything as being connected and accessible from any point. "Oh, let me just hack (sic) into that Star Destroyer and vent its atmosphere. Ta da, encounter over and everyone aboard is dead." Possible for a shackled AI onboard the Normandy, but not possible for Mathus the technician from Tatooine. Not without first infiltrating the Star Destroyer and planting devices/subroutines inside the ship and/or its local computer systems without being detected. ...that would also be an awesome adventure!

The situation the OP is referring to, where 3 different slicers are simultaneously trying to slice a computer, can only be describing one of the exceptions where a system is networked. Because otherwise they couldn't be performing the described actions.

Almost every encounter we've had in the game so far that involved slicing first involved physical infiltration. The most recent involved sneaking into a Hutt's stronghold on Nar Shadaa through a service lift tube, stunning the personnel, then slicing his internal network from a terminal in there while waves of security attacked us. That sort of stuff is typical, we're not connecting to public WiFi and hacking into some organization's firewall from the outside to gain entry.

If we could do stuff then our computer expert could do everything while we sat around and played holochess or whatever.

I would like to point out, being the OP and all, that at no point did I ask about wireless connections, or trying to slice from remote locations. Yes I used the pop culture example of Hackers, and they did do it remotely, but I was simply using that as an example of a "Big Mainframe Action Sequence". I'm fine with having to actually get into the facility and plugging into the mainframe directly, or at least within the internal network. What I'm asking is, once I've done all that. Sliced past cameras, opened up doors, etc, when I get to the actual, final roll, the entire point of the scene (Hacking the Gibson itself to get The Data), are any of my talents going to actually apply to that roll? Or is it just going to be a Vanilla Computer dice pool?

My question was, I felt, pretty specific. When the talent says things like "security devices" does that include ICE and other software-esque defenses. Or did it mean that the talent, and it's subsequent benefit, would only apply to trying to get through the various layers of defenses until I get to the core. There is nothing in that question about wireless slicing, or the internet, or any of that. Does X talent, apply to Y situation, per the RAW. That's it.

I'm sorry to repeat that point multiple times, but it seems the discussion has veered entirely off topic, and I wanted to clarify that.

My question was, I felt, pretty specific. When the talent says things like "security devices" does that include ICE and other software-esque defenses. Or did it mean that the talent, and it's subsequent benefit, would only apply to trying to get through the various layers of defenses until I get to the core. There is nothing in that question about wireless slicing, or the internet, or any of that. Does X talent, apply to Y situation, per the RAW. That's it.

I'm sorry to repeat that point multiple times, but it seems the discussion has veered entirely off topic, and I wanted to clarify that.

I'm sorry, I think that was my fault. I made too big a deal out of my "setting the stage" comments. Wanted to give what I thought was some helpful context

To be plain: I think that bypassing a software security program, specifically one that guards data/more software, is outside the intended use for the Bypass Security talent. However, if the software security program is guarding something that is physical, like a lock or a physical security system (even security holocams), then the talent use should be viable.

Anti-slicer droids and droid brains, which I think are pretty common, shouldn't be counted as devices, but perhaps physical anti-slicer modules—like a counter-ICE-breaker sort of thing that a counterslicer might plug into a SCOMP port (I'm sure those exist in Star Wars), or a state-of-the-art computer that might grant a defending slicer boost dice on his checks (which would translate to setbacks for you when making Opposed checks)—should count as security devices, and thus qualify.