I kind of see a trend in the expansions that make Rebels stronger with each release.

Granted, in wave II the Imps had the upper hand with the Gladiator. But the fighter pack was already leaning towards the Rebels (except of Rhymer of course). Then the MC30 and 80 were a ship with much better versatility than anything the Imps can throw at them. Granted, the ISD has more raw firepower but it is way too focused on its front arc, and the Raider is a smart small ship but it lacks the real punch against ships and can be easily outmaneuvered if the Rebel ship remains in red dice range.

Then in Wave III the GR75s is easily outclasses the Gozantis. Especially the support variant is extremely useful while the Gozantis are just not strong enough to make a big difference in the battle. They ARE good but they need some very specific circumstances to operate properly while a GR75 support can just hang back and distribute goodies all along the fleet.

Wave IV increased the Rebel lead once again. The Interdictor is good to confuse your enemy but looking at it as a warship it just falls short. The Liberty on the other hand is basically a Rebel Star Destroyer, and it gives now two big ships you can build your fleet around.

And what we see from Wave V seems to trip the balance even more. The Phoenix Home has just too much of a punch on its forward arc for such a small ship. Sato seems outright the best admiral in the game, giving two dices of any color... Crazy! Meanwhile the ILC is something... well.... It's not a proper, nor a proper Star Destroyer, it seems to fall short on every front.

And if they take the specs from the EU sourcebooks then the E-Wings will be superior to X-Wings in every aspect (if they take the books as source though then the E-Wings will be worthless) and in contrast the TIE/D will be a superb fighter but impossibly expensive, not really worth to buy.

I'm not sure if I'm missing something but it seems to me that the Imps would need some real beast in Wave 6. Maybe a Dreadnought....?

Tldr

Lets let things shake out first

I think the Empire just has a steeper learning curve. I am still swatting Rebels successfully with VSD-I's :-)

I think the Empire just has a steeper learning curve. I am still swatting Rebels successfully with VSD-I's :-)

Interesting. I would have argued that the rebels have a steeper learning curve because of their reliance on more of a combined arms approach.

Rebels are, IMHO, more forgiving than the Empire ships and require less mutual support to be successful. However, flown well, the Empire is far more lethal. To many folks try and play Rebels by standing off and playing the red dice game. The Empire is not strong here. Close fast, take your hits and then dump hell on the Rebel scum. (slight over simplification, but you get the idea.)

The empire has great multi purpose ships with the ISD. The Interdictor is a nasty support ship, which is surprisingly effective. It's really really hard to flank, does a number on MC30s, and has decent if not great firepower.

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Rebels more forgiving? I think not, when you often have the majority of your firepower mounted on hulls with 4 HP. Forgiving is making a mistake and being able to take it on the strength of your 120 hull points and bountiful shields.* Rebels consistently rely on evasion and wits to survive. A single mistimed maneuver exposing your Nebulon's flank often means death.

I personally think Imperials hold the advantage, and it's been born out in tourney results so far. But I agree with Tirion - let's see how things shake out.

*(i jest, but only a bit)

Rebels are, IMHO, more forgiving than the Empire ships.

This is being demonstrated in my meta by all the rebel players that are going full games without taking a single liberty front arc shot. Empire has devastating frontal firepower, but once an enemy slips past it your done

I might agree with you for wave 3/4, it's too early to tell for that, but as far as the other waves, I totally disagree.

in wave 1 the gladiator and the assault frigate are BOTH awesome. Imps got rhymer, who is one of the most game-changing squadrons there is. rebel squadrons are good, but I think the way (many of) the imp leaders synergize with each other is amazing. the rebel squads are more well rounded, and the imps more specialized. that doesn't make one better, it just makes them different (which is great)

discounting the ISD is ridiculous. it's way better than the MC80. both the mc30 and raider are very good when used properly. is the mc30 better than the raider? yeah, but it costs a lot more points too. the rogues and villians are very different on each side, the yt-2400 is awesome, but so is the firespray.

we have no idea how good or bad anything in wave 5 is. there's no way you can say one is better with the information we have. we don't even know what most of the squadrons stats are, let alone the cost.

Well, Gencon and the recent Canadian tourneys were imperial shows. Something like 7 of the top 8 were Imp.

Wave 3 was a toss up with Rebels getting the better flotilla and imperials getting better titles. Admirals were even-ish.

Wave 4 probably was definatively in favor of Imperials (to me). They got a solid and unexceptional ship with exceptional upgrades. Rebels got an overclocked VSD. Admirals were even

Wave 5 looks to favor Rebels.

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Stop it. You know they did. Demolisher and Rhymer were both run-away meta.

This is all misdirection. Black Sun is the true winner.

Whoever wins.....we lose.

Wait, that was Aliens versus Predator. Crap man, I got nothing on this one.

Well, Gencon and the recent Canadian tourneys were imperial shows. Something like 7 of the top 8 were Imp.

Wave 3 was a toss up with Rebels getting the better flotilla and imperials getting better titles. Admirals were even-ish.

Wave 4 probably was definatively in favor of Imperials (to me). They got a solid and unexceptional ship with exceptional upgrades. Rebels got an overclocked VSD. Admirals were even

Wave 5 looks to favor Rebels.

That's true but I guess it can be misconstrued to a degree: Imperial fleets got first place finishes, but as far as the two Canadian regionals I was at (and heard from some others), Rebels still did well in placing among the top 4 (2nd spot myself and... 5th, I think in the other, but 2nd place finishes were Rebels both times). That said, some of the margins for tournament points on those Imperial wins were incredibly high in comparison (I seem to recall 25 and 27 for Edmonton and Calgary respectively, I placed second in Hothgary but with 22 points if I recall correctly. Both first place finishes went to fleets with Rhymer+Demo).

In general I don't agree that the tide is so much turning towards Rebels as it is ebbing from Imperial dominance in the competitive sphere. Rebels could always win, but as far as I've experienced, Imperials tend to have a slightly easier time winning by greater margins. So a Rebel fleet and imperial fleet could win the same number of times, say 3-3, but the Imperials could walk away with 25 points and the Rebels with 20.

If we're talking strictly ship vs. ship and fleet vs. fleet, it's balanced as far as I'm concerned. Imperials just have slightly less choice compared to Rebels at the moment as they're short one ship, but they have an exceptionally powerful title that tends to make it a constant in Imperial competitive lists. Too much of what gets drawn in the comparison game feels anecdotal. We can't exempt Rhymer from the squadron game any more than we can say 'take out Yavaris' from the Rebels squadron game, they're both really powerful options that exist and have a noticeable effect.

On a side note: I'm really really surprised how capable the Interdictor is as a medium warship. Didn't expect that.

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Stop it. You know they did. Demolisher and Rhymer were both run-away meta.

Both of whom are Wave 1.

Meanwhile, in Wave 1, the winner of "Best overall ship:" goes to the Assault Frigate, while winner of the "Best overall squadron:" goes to the A Wing.

Yes, Demolisher is probably the best title in the game. It certainly was during Wave 1 - but you only get one, and they are expensive, and fairly fragile. Meanwhile, AFs got decent firepower, decent sustainability, and decent maneuverability that combined to make them one hell of a ship that could be very hard to take on - and you can take more than one of them.

Rhymer is great, but his support in Wave 1 was a bit lacking. He is the single best unique squadron, but Rebel squadrons overall are much better, and the A Wing was the clear winner of Wave 1. Versatile in every way for its price, exactly like the AF.

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Stop it. You know they did. Demolisher and Rhymer were both run-away meta.

As Naboobo2000 has stated, "Anyone who lost to Demolisher was not prepared for it"

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Stop it. You know they did. Demolisher and Rhymer were both run-away meta.

Both of whom are Wave 1.

Meanwhile, in Wave 1, the winner of "Best overall ship:" goes to the Assault Frigate, while winner of the "Best overall squadron:" goes to the A Wing.

....

Right, but Demo and Rhymer still reigned in and across Wave 2.

Agreed with you on Assault Frigate, but, unless you're restricting to non-unique stuff, I'd say Rhymer for best overall Squadron.

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Stop it. You know they did. Demolisher and Rhymer were both run-away meta.

As Naboobo2000 has stated, "Anyone who lost to Demolisher was not prepared for it"

The problem was not just preparing for Demolisher, though. It was preparing for Demolisher AND Rhymer AND Ackbar Rosy Conga Lines (in that order of meta-defining priority).

Last time I checked (and admittedly, it's been a while), Schmitty's tournament data more or less confirmed based on the prevalance of Imperial builds that contained Demo and Rhymer, and the winning/top 2/top 3/top 4 winning lists.

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Invalid word combination.

please use either ''must have'' or the contraction of same; ''must've''

you cannot be a true imperial untill you are literate.

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Stop it. You know they did. Demolisher and Rhymer were both run-away meta.

Both of whom are Wave 1.

Meanwhile, in Wave 1, the winner of "Best overall ship:" goes to the Assault Frigate, while winner of the "Best overall squadron:" goes to the A Wing.

....

Right, but Demo and Rhymer still reigned in and across Wave 2.

Agreed with you on Assault Frigate, but, unless you're restricting to non-unique stuff, I'd say Rhymer for best overall Squadron.

But they are both Wave 1 units. They can dominate past their introduction, but neither of them are the best Wave 2 unit because neither of them are Wave 2 units.

Rhymer is the best unique. Not the best overall, in Wave 1. He's extremely good for sure, and he really helps the Imps along with their extremely sh*tty basic squadrons - but he's only one squadron. A Wings are nuts. Cheap, speed 5, Counter 2, 4 hull, black battery die. They were very good, and especially good at tying up Rhymerballs.

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Invalid word combination.

please use either ''must have'' or the contraction of same; ''must've''

you cannot be a true imperial untill you are literate.

I was about to call you a grammar nazi until I realized that is basically what the Imperials are

That, and its Lyraeus here...

True Imperial?

I think you've mistaken him for Mikael....

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Invalid word combination.

please use either ''must have'' or the contraction of same; ''must've''

you cannot be a true imperial untill you are literate.

(And literacy is the ability to read. Considering that Lyraeus takes part in an internet forum, I think we can conclude with relative safety that he is literate. I guess you never know, he might hire someone to read the posts to him, and then he dictates responses, but that doesn't seem super likely. You should of choose a better werd.)

Wait. . . the imperials had the advantage in wave 2? I must of missed that. . .

Invalid word combination.

please use either ''must have'' or the contraction of same; ''must've''

you cannot be a true imperial untill you are literate.

This probably could of gone w/o bein' post. Jus' sayin', man.

(And literacy is the ability to read. Considering that Lyraeus takes part in an internet forum, I think we can conclude with relative safety that he is literate. I guess you never know, he might hire someone to read the posts to him, and then he dictates responses, but that doesn't seem super likely. You should of choose a better werd.)

To vex or not to vex. . . that is a question.

Thank you Geressen for the correction. I miss that at times when i am speed typing. Still, I am no Mikael.