I have about 70 pts to spend on Reb squads to deal with 134pt worth of enemy fighters. What have people experienced in playing dealing with a full onslaught of commanded fighters. In my experience with 70 pts worth of Reb fighters is that its a free 70 pts I have just given to my enemy while only killing 1 or 2 of his fighters.

You can do it with just Tycho if you get it perfect....

Otherwise, jan with 3 Xs, or tycho with 3 yt2400s.

For purely being able to delay, I would do Jan, Tycho, and 3 X Wings for 74 points. Throw in a Jamming Field while you're at it, maybe.

You can do it with just Tycho if you get it perfect....

This is really mostly applicable to a fast, maneuverable MC30-style list that's built for surgical strikes: concentrating firepower very hard in a small area over a short time. Because Tycho is going to die if your opponent brought sufficient anti-squadron OR gets lucky rolls, he's a great speed bump but he still only buys you a turn or so. That turn has to get you enough carrier kills to neuter his squadrons.

You have to change your perspective if you intend to take minimum squads. You take anything less than 80 points of squads it will most likely lose easily to the 134. You need to change to a delay strategy at that point with your squads. Yes you will lose your squads but you don't to kill the squads to win the game. Ultimately you are just trying to make their 134 point investment a bad one.

Some few rules of thumb:

-Capital ships are more important than fighter (points, activations, objectives, etc...)

-Actual squadron stands mean more than quality

-You want at the very least 4 stands

-Speed is more important than firepower

-Assume you can only delay the opponent for 2 turns max

-Intel can be countered by clever positioning

-Just as you are flying your own squads defensively, you need to fly more aggressive with your capital ships

-You could not kill a single enemy fighter and still win the game

Stay away from objectives that help fighters = Precision Strike, Fleet Ambush, and Superior Positions.

Minimum Squad Examples

-4 x A-Wings (Way better with Tycho though if you can fit him in)

-4 YT2400's

-3x Xwing + Jan

None of these are hard and fast rules, just general guidelines. If you get really good you don't even need squadrons but that a little fly by the seat of your pants.

I wrote a whole article about trying to counter fireballs with minimum squads but for the life of me I can't seem to find it on the boards right now.

YT-2400's have already been mentioned, and are a common answer to this because they require no carrier help, and have all the right stats in all the right places.

When I play rebs I never leave home without a couple of them.

It all really depends on a variety of factors. My favorite Rhymes counter is IG-88 can ignore the dengar granted counter and the tie advanced escort. Not sure of Rebel counters.

You can do it with just Tycho if you get it perfect....

Otherwise, jan with 3 Xs, or tycho with 3 yt2400s.

Jan and 3 YT1300's can do it, B-Wigs can do it, A-Wings, so many possibilities

B wings do have a respectable AS pool

B wings do have a respectable AS pool

That they do. They do it all!

B wings do have a respectable AS pool

That they do. They do it all!

B wings do have a respectable AS pool

That they do. They do it all!

soon to be replaced by the mighty Tie Defender

One cant replace something they never had

I have about 70 pts to spend on Reb squads to deal with 134pt worth of enemy fighters. What have people experienced in playing dealing with a full onslaught of commanded fighters. In my experience with 70 pts worth of Reb fighters is that its a free 70 pts I have just given to my enemy while only killing 1 or 2 of his fighters.

Another important question is what is in the rest of your list.

For instance, running YT-1300s when you have 1 MC30c and 3 CR90s with Cracken is a fool's errand because you will outpace them immediately. On the other hand, with an Ackbar slow-roll side-shooting list, that might be your optimal answer.

What else are you running?

You have to change your perspective if you intend to take minimum squads. You take anything less than 80 points of squads it will most likely lose easily to the 134. You need to change to a delay strategy at that point with your squads. Yes you will lose your squads but you don't to kill the squads to win the game. Ultimately you are just trying to make their 134 point investment a bad one.

Not completely true. You can take on more points in squadrons if you have support from ships

You have to change your perspective if you intend to take minimum squads. You take anything less than 80 points of squads it will most likely lose easily to the 134. You need to change to a delay strategy at that point with your squads. Yes you will lose your squads but you don't to kill the squads to win the game. Ultimately you are just trying to make their 134 point investment a bad one.

Not completely true. You can take on more points in squadrons if you have support from ships

I would guess that someone who takes the full allotment of 134 intends to support them properly which means if you are that far down and they focus on you they should still come out on top, at least by the end. The other way to look at it is it might be possible to completely stall the opponent for 80 points but why spend 80 +fleet support costs when you can probably get it done for about 44?

You have to change your perspective if you intend to take minimum squads. You take anything less than 80 points of squads it will most likely lose easily to the 134. You need to change to a delay strategy at that point with your squads. Yes you will lose your squads but you don't to kill the squads to win the game. Ultimately you are just trying to make their 134 point investment a bad one.

Not completely true. You can take on more points in squadrons if you have support from ships

I would guess that someone who takes the full allotment of 134 intends to support them properly which means if you are that far down and they focus on you they should still come out on top, at least by the end. The other way to look at it is it might be possible to completely stall the opponent for 80 points but why spend 80 +fleet support costs when you can probably get it done for about 44?

A Nebulon escort is only 6 points more than a Support and that is 2 blue dice on a wide side hull. Support is easy enough to come into if you plan for that as part of the strategy.

You have to change your perspective if you intend to take minimum squads. You take anything less than 80 points of squads it will most likely lose easily to the 134. You need to change to a delay strategy at that point with your squads. Yes you will lose your squads but you don't to kill the squads to win the game. Ultimately you are just trying to make their 134 point investment a bad one.

Not completely true. You can take on more points in squadrons if you have support from ships

I would guess that someone who takes the full allotment of 134 intends to support them properly which means if you are that far down and they focus on you they should still come out on top, at least by the end. The other way to look at it is it might be possible to completely stall the opponent for 80 points but why spend 80 +fleet support costs when you can probably get it done for about 44?

A Nebulon escort is only 6 points more than a Support and that is 2 blue dice on a wide side hull. Support is easy enough to come into if you plan for that as part of the strategy.

I was pointing out that the support argument works both ways. The Neb example also still doesn't answer why that's necessary when you can do it for cheaper. IMO if you are going to play the squadron game, play to win it and spend the points. If you don't want to play it take a few squad to make sure you don't get swamped.

You have to change your perspective if you intend to take minimum squads. You take anything less than 80 points of squads it will most likely lose easily to the 134. You need to change to a delay strategy at that point with your squads. Yes you will lose your squads but you don't to kill the squads to win the game. Ultimately you are just trying to make their 134 point investment a bad one.

Not completely true. You can take on more points in squadrons if you have support from ships

I would guess that someone who takes the full allotment of 134 intends to support them properly which means if you are that far down and they focus on you they should still come out on top, at least by the end. The other way to look at it is it might be possible to completely stall the opponent for 80 points but why spend 80 +fleet support costs when you can probably get it done for about 44?

A Nebulon escort is only 6 points more than a Support and that is 2 blue dice on a wide side hull. Support is easy enough to come into if you plan for that as part of the strategy.

I was pointing out that the support argument works both ways. The Neb example also still doesn't answer why that's necessary when you can do it for cheaper. IMO if you are going to play the squadron game, play to win it and spend the points. If you don't want to play it take a few squad to make sure you don't get swamped.

I never play to just win the squadron game. That will require every build to do so. I build to keep my squadrons close till they are supported and ready for their duties. To me, that is the smartest way. Everyone has their own style though.

I would go for 6 squadron bases, split up however you like between X and A wings Ideally Tycho, and at least 2 A wing bases.

The good point is that it's never a wasted force because these fighters are also efficient against ships !

Even though Escort seems counter intuitive to Counter, posiiton the A-Wings using their speed 5 to tie up the ball from multiple angles forcing him to dedicate 1 Intel squadron to untie only 1 A-Wings. Then, fly in the X-Wings to take over the tie in and provide Escort to shield the A-Wings.

It's better to come in with fresh escorts than to use them as shields. Why ? Because you'll be using the total HP pool of the X-Wing plus its escorted target (9 in this case) rather than simply the X-Wing's own pool. In this case, 9 damage is still going to take down both your fighter squadrons, but you'll have both active for a longer while.

I did actually use YT2400s and Dash Rendar, and Jan, and some X-Wings. This really does throw a kink in the Rhymer plan. Also helps when you barely miss....if ever.

Defining "Deal With" needs to be done before I can answer.

Defining "Deal With" needs to be done before I can answer.

As in.."How do I take out my opponent playing this mess?" My vote is baseball bat, personally

Do people currently play 1 dimensional, nearly all bomber Rhymer builds or try and build air superiority too?

ex

Rhymer

Jump

2 TA

4-6 TB

vs

Rhymer

Dengar

2 TA

Mauler

Soontir (Or firesprays)

4 TB

Do people currently play 1 dimensional, nearly all bomber Rhymer builds or try and build air superiority too?

ex

Rhymer

Jump

2 TA

4-6 TB

vs

Rhymer

Dengar

2 TA

Mauler

Soontir (Or firesprays)

4 TB

I agree with the "define deal with comment" earlier.

The bottom line is that you're looking to win the game, but there are several paths to do that. One of them is to tie up the enemy enough while swamping his ships. The other is to bring enough in the anti-squadron game that you win any squadron contests. At Gencon, I lost my entire complement of 76 points of squads on two separate occasions. Its a simple fact that if your opponent brings a lot of squads and if they're much more dedicated antisquadron, they're going to wipe the floor of 76 points.

I also really like what ImpStarDeuces wrote below. Generally speaking, there are three games within the game (metagames): Ships, squadrons, and objectives. Ships are by far the most important, as a tabling means 400 points regardless of squads. Objectives can be important in the right circumstances, but as a friend said the other day, "I'll trade you a ship a turn for your objective points." We've talked about making effective ship trades in other threads, but one key strategic element of the game is making fair trades between these three metagames. And that's why "deal with" matters. A list that "deals with squads" by blowing up your ships super quickly is very different from a list that aims to make squadrons extraordinarily effective so that 76 points can trade up against 134.

For example, if you look at Ginkapo's squadron promotion above in conjunction with his lists, he's quite happy to trade away the squadron game because he's extremely strong on the ship-on-ship. A lot of your very heavy squadron builds look to point deny off the ships while winning clearly on the objectives plus the squadrons

Some few rules of thumb:

-Capital ships are more important than fighter (points, activations, objectives, etc...)

-Actual squadron stands mean more than quality

-You want at the very least 4 stands

-Speed is more important than firepower

-Assume you can only delay the opponent for 2 turns max

-Intel can be countered by clever positioning

-Just as you are flying your own squads defensively, you need to fly more aggressive with your capital ships

-You could not kill a single enemy fighter and still win the game

Stay away from objectives that help fighters = Precision Strike, Fleet Ambush, and Superior Positions.